RE: INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled

RE: INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled

Thursday 2nd July 2020

INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled

It's fair to say the inspiration behind this "proper" off-roader is clear


There isn't any love lost between Land Rover and INEOS Automotive. Jim Radcliffe had barely announced his aspiration to build a thoroughly proper off-roader inspired by the original Defender before things turned legal. And, very soon after, slightly surreal - with the revelation that Land Rover had never actually got around to trademarking the shape of the original Defender while it was in production. When JLR tried to do that posthumously, and likely stop what had then become INEOS Automotive in its tracks, the larger company got slapped down by the Intellectual Property Office, which decided that the famous original wasn't sufficiently different from other 4x4 models to justify award of a trademark. Ouch.

Now INEOS has released images of what the finished Grenadier will look like, and it's fair to say the inspiration is pretty obvious. Yes, it is different from the previous Defender - and by what the company reckons is a sufficient amount to end legal wrangling - but the basics of the flat-topped wings, twin round headlights, angular sides and (almost) flat glass are strikingly familiar. It certainly looks much closer to the design of the original Defender than Land Rover's new, life-stylish version does.

The Grenadier might have begun as a billionaire's fancy - funded by the one of the UK's richest men and named after the pub in London the original idea was hatched in - but well before release of the official images it had become a very serious project. It is being developed with the help of Magna Steyr in Austria, which knows a serious amount about building genuine off-roaders, will be powered by BMW engines, use a ZF autobox and be constructed in a purpose-built plant in Bridgend with the aim being to create up to 25,000 cars a year - considerably more than the old Defender was managing for the last years of its life.

The company's stated aim is to build a vehicle that will appeal to buyers in need of genuine utility, "UV, not SUV" as commercial director Mark Tennant puts it. A group that has found itself short of choices as traditional carmakers have increasingly moved towards softer-focused lifestyle SUVs. The target is to create a vehicle for farmers and emergency services, but also NGOs and international charities trying to reach hard-to-access places. Tennant acknowledges there will also be buyers drawn to something so rugged without needing that level of utility, but the car won't be compromised around the needs of such users.

We've already been told that the specification will include a ladder chassis, permanent four-wheel drive, a mechanical transfer box and the ability to tow up to 3.5-tonnes. Both diesel and petrol BMW six-cylinder engines will be offered and the development team are even working on creating an electrical PTO to allow machinery to be powered by the engine. And although there is no confirmation of different wheelbases, the fact the INEOS has chosen to show a double-row pick-up version alongside the five-door estate makes clear how flexible the core architecture is - making a SWB version look like a safe bet.

The pictures make it clear how important utility has been in defining the look of the car. The belt lines on the doors are functional and able to carry loads, allowing items to be mounted on them, and it will be possible to take them off entirely when operating in very hot environments. The integrated roof bars allow loads to be carried without a rack - although one can be added - and the flat-topped front wings are strong enough to take a person's weight. All Grenadiers will have pre-fitted wiring for extra lights, as well as supplementary grille lights as standard. Light units aren't handed, making replacing them in the field easier if broken.

At the back the Grenadier gets a vertically split tailgate which will give a much wider aperture than the old Defender managed, with the boot sized to accommodate a standard Euro pallet. An optional rear ladder mounts directly to the smaller door, with the larger one carrying a full-sized spare wheel on a carrier. Look closely at the rear side of the car and you'll also see a small drop-down panel that gives external access to a storage box incorporated within the boot for wet or smelly items. And although we don't have any images of the interior yet, the team promise it will indeed be possible to hose the Grenadier out. All in all, about as old-school an off-roader as it's possible to imagine.

Key to the Grenadier's success (or failure) will be international sales, with the company committing to the considerable costs of homologating it for the United States. We will have to wait for news on pricing, although it seems certain that the Grenadier will overlap heavily with the new Defender. Both are very different cars intended for very different markets, but given their shared inspiration comparisons are inevitable. As are the 'Pretender' jibes.


Author
Discussion

TurboBlue

Original Poster:

672 posts

170 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
Well, that is proper old school - I quite like it (happy memories of my Mk1 Shogun come to mind); pricing and reliability will be everything I think; as an aside, how are they going to sell it. On-line only?

Calmchap

177 posts

120 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
Finally a true competitor to the Landcruiser Utility is here.

All jokes aside - it looks fantastic, and with the hose down interior, exactly what purists demanded. The only question is -how many will put their money where their mouth is?

EyeHeartSpellin

680 posts

90 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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That pickup has proper genocide potential.

blearyeyedboy

6,549 posts

186 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
I like it.

Ironically, securing the future of INEOS may require courting the lifestyle brigade that they publicly scoff at. They do bring money with them, and the same commercial reality that gives us modern Land Rover, the Cayenne and the X5 may begin to sneak in to INEOS' marketing plan.

drpep

1,760 posts

175 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
What a machine!!! This thing looks awesome. Please bring this to the US. I would be very tempted; especially given the engine is presumably serviceable at a BMW tech, and the rest of the car is presumably mechanically quite similar to an older Landie.

I can't help but feel LR missed a trick on the styling of the latest defender. That forum thread has become a little toxic so I'll just hang out here a while with this beast. Fantastic.

A.J.M

8,013 posts

193 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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The Ineos Santana.

Now how many are going to put their money where their mouth is and buy it...

2xChevrons

3,527 posts

87 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Well it certainly looks the part!

I'm impressed how much it isn't straight crib of the old Defender. Obviously there are many similarities, some of which will be deliberate and most of which are just because it was designed with the same ethos for the same purpose, but there is individuality there as well.

That said, I see bits of Santana Series IV and PS10 in there (unsurprising since they were also designed to be 'Land Rover but better'), some 40-Series Land Cruiser in the asymmetric rear doors, some MK1 Shogun in the front end and some Type 160 Patrol in the overall shape and proportions. Again, I'm not saying this is lazy cribbing, but that's a list of very well-regarded utility 4x4s which bode well for the function that has provided the form

I especially like the twin sunroofs over the front. Reminds me of the tilt/remove sun hatch on my old LR 90 CSW.

Features such as pallet-wide rear door(s), a load-capable integral roof and strengthened wing tops are all things that were sorely missed on the old Defender and well-served by the accessory market.

I'm keen to see what the inside looks like.

I still think that this will be the aeronautical chronometer wristwatch of the 4x4 world - very capable and clever in itself, but bought mostly by people who are drawn to the image rather than the ability that that authenticity provides - but I see no reason to knock the vehicle itself given what it was designed to be.

Edited by 2xChevrons on Wednesday 1st July 00:47


Edited by 2xChevrons on Wednesday 1st July 00:48

Clivey

5,262 posts

211 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
2xChevrons said:
I still think that this will be the aeronautical chronometer wristwatch of the 4x4 world - very capable and clever in itself, but bought mostly by people who are drawn to the image rather than the ability that that authenticity provides - but I see no reason to knock the vehicle itself given what it was designed to be.
If sales to posers are what makes it economically viable to produce, then so be it. At least those of us that would use it's ability have the choice of another suitable vehicle. smile

growlerowl

334 posts

56 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Love it. I was doubtful about the front end after the spy shots but I think it's fine and no doubt there will be after market options should I really feel the need for something different. And I think it will look awesome in black!
Assuming it's safe and not awful on long journeys - both of which I'd expect a clean sheet design to have taken care of - this will likely be my first ever new car purchase. Bet you could build a stunning off road camper based on the longer chassis.
I reckon they could end up taking a LOT of sales off the new Defender - bragging rights definitely go to this in terms of off road capability, which will count a lot for some people. And I'll bet there will be fancy luxury conversions too - whilst this doesn't have the brand name, it most definitely has the boxy aesthetic down to a tee.
I can't wait to test drive it!

wisbech

3,103 posts

128 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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I think it will be the GT86. The car every one says they want, but they will still buy a FWD hot hatch/ soft SUV.

Cold

15,564 posts

97 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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They must have used the world's largest photocopier to produce that.

anonymous-user

61 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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looks like what LR should have done with the new Defender. Looks well finished.

Bencolem

1,077 posts

246 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
That looks more like a Santana 110 than a Santana 110! Honestly a bit disappointed in that (if only because I had such high hopes?):


unsprung

5,818 posts

131 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all

PH article said:
Land Rover had never actually got around to trademarking the shape of the original Defender while it was in production.
This boggles the mind. Intellectual property and brand are everything.

Although there is a certain basic look to the category, distinction is possible. It requires, however, a joined-up approach, across teams, that apparently was overlooked at JLR.


PH article said:
Key to the Grenadier's success (or failure) will be international sales, with the company committing to the considerable costs of homologating it for the United States.
With an unstressed V8 under the bonnet, the Grenadier might form a sizable niche, Stateside.

However... With BMW engines and a vast continent to cover (in terms of dealership support), will this vehicle be in the US anything other than a toy for the better off?

Nobody is predicting, are they, that the Grenadier will in any way disrupt the extensive and keenly-contested US marketplace of pickup trucks (to include the 4x4 and full-fat commercial and fleet varieties), are they?

Am I wrong to guess that US sales volume will be rather Lotus-like? (less than one unit sold per day, annually)


JohnG1

3,485 posts

212 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
But...

Isn't this the coolest thing in the world? Man sits in pub with chums, decides to build a car since he cannot find what he wants. Fortunately for him, he's somewhat long cash and does it.

Isn't this what everyone on Pistonheads wants to do?

Well done!

JulianHJ

8,791 posts

269 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
That looks awesome, I hope demand exceeds all expectations. Sadly I’m not in its target market as I have absolutely no need for something like that; nevertheless I really want one.

Leithen

12,105 posts

274 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
tank

clap

coffee

GT03ROB

13,568 posts

228 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
Looks good by me.

unsprung

5,818 posts

131 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all

JohnG1 said:
But...

Isn't this the coolest thing in the world? Man sits in pub with chums, decides to build a car since he cannot find what he wants. Fortunately for him, he's somewhat long cash and does it.

Isn't this what everyone on Pistonheads wants to do?

Well done!
It makes an impression how one can draw a distinction between this home-grown effort and that of new TVR.


oilit

2,691 posts

185 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
Some great comments in here -

I like the back, and the twin sun roofs.

The front is a bit meh

I suspect JLR will enjoy the higher sales volumes - just because it is more accessible to buy. But I would rather put my money here

For me, the acid test will be the interior spec - eg can it have cruise, aircon and bluetooth etc - some fairly std offerings these days which take the stress out of driving (im not talking leather or parking sensors etc here !) - if so then I might be tempted for a doublecab - as long as it doesn't have the trademark JLR defender leaky roof !!

The double cab is obviously longer than the station wagon - if you look at the rear door to wheel arch differences ....perhaps it therefore has a better load capacity than the old 110 double cab - can but hope....

Edited by oilit on Wednesday 1st July 06:36