Regulation Changes

[Wooden Zebra]

Comprehensive list of proposed Rally regulation changes just published by Motorsport UK, only a couple of weeks to reply:

https://www.motorsportuk.org/the-sport/regulations...

[bigothunter]

Competed in some Single Venue Stage Rallies back in early-2000s but involved in circuit racing and trackdays since. Back then, medicals and Hans harness (which I hate) were not required on stages.

Just looked at the detail behind RS National Stage Rallying Licences. Appears that medicals are still not required.


Would appreciate advice from current club level stage rally competitors:

- Can you confirm that medicals are not required for a RS National Stage Rallying Licence? Or is my interpretation wrong?

- Are Hans harnesses required for Stage Rallying today?


ps There is too much bullst in club level circuit racing now

[thepawbroon]

bigothunter said:

Competed in some Single Venue Stage Rallies back in early-2000s but involved in circuit racing and trackdays since. Back then, medicals and Hans harness (which I hate) were not required on stages.

Just looked at the detail behind RS National Stage Rallying Licences. Appears that medicals are still not required.


Would appreciate advice from current club level stage rally competitors:

- Can you confirm that medicals are not required for a RS National Stage Rallying Licence? Or is my interpretation wrong?

- Are Hans harnesses required for Stage Rallying today?


ps There is too much bullst in club level circuit racing now

Correct re: medicals not required, but check the detail about your age and any pre-existing conditions.

And yes Frontal Head Restraints are required on all stage rallies now. And balaclavas (that one isn't so obvious) as well as helmet and race suit which comply with the standards in the blue book.

[bigothunter]

Thanks

[GlobalRacer]

bigothunter said:

ps There is too much bullst in club level circuit racing now

Like what for example? I fail to see how anything that leads to safer racing is bullst.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

GlobalRacer said:

Like what for example? I fail to see how anything that leads to safer racing is bullst.

you could argue that all the rule changes are bullste.

The number of drivers KSI per year in club racing has remained constant for 50 years

Servicing your fire ex bi annually is a waste of time, as is changing your seat belts every 5 years. However I believe that electronic scrutineering records are coming soon along with results, inc accidents, car changes etc. So maybe a better record of car maintenance will ease up on the it's old so it must be changed mentality.

[bigothunter]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

The number of drivers KSI per year in club racing has remained constant for 50 years.

Interesting

Do you have those KSI figures for club racing? Also has racing distance and time increased much over that period?

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

bigothunter said:

Interesting

Do you have those KSI figures for club racing? Also has racing distance and time increased much over that period?

not to hand, but I read the data within an MSA magazine a few years ago. When I say constant I mean, some years 0, some years 3, most years 1-2. Not including spectators, and not including rally. 1 is too many, but the safety changes have done nothing to reduce it to zero. Also included in these KSI's are drivers who die of heart attacks, which is about half IIRC.

Races over my near 30 year race career have remained at about 15 mins for sprints. In the old days you got 1x20 min race, but now its 2x 13 min plus a lap. Then of course you have the proliferation of endurance racing which increases track time significantly.

[bigothunter]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

bigothunter said:

Interesting

Do you have those KSI figures for club racing? Also has racing distance and time increased much over that period?

not to hand, but I read the data within an MSA magazine a few years ago. When I say constant I mean, some years 0, some years 3, most years 1-2. Not including spectators, and not including rally. 1 is too many, but the safety changes have done nothing to reduce it to zero. Also included in these KSI's are drivers who die of heart attacks, which is about half IIRC.

Races over my near 30 year race career have remained at about 15 mins for sprints. In the old days you got 1x20 min race, but now its 2x 13 min plus a lap. Then of course you have the proliferation of endurance racing which increases track time significantly.

My involvement in motorsport goes back even further. From my perspective, circuit racing (and track days) are relatively safe. Your figures endorse that view.

My biggest risk is driving home long distance after an early start and busy day. I get knackered but have learnt how to manage it by taking appropriate breaks.

I flew gliders for many years. Considerably smaller activity than motorsport. One very bad year, nine glider pilots were killed in UK.

[GlobalRacer]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

you could argue that all the rule changes are bullste.

The number of drivers KSI per year in club racing has remained constant for 50 years

Servicing your fire ex bi annually is a waste of time, as is changing your seat belts every 5 years. However I believe that electronic scrutineering records are coming soon along with results, inc accidents, car changes etc. So maybe a better record of car maintenance will ease up on the it's old so it must be changed mentality.

So we're ignoring that seat belt life has been extended to 10 years for those to 8853-2016 standards? Not to mention the extension of seat life in rallying?

Why is servicing the extinguisher bi-annually a waste of time? It was always the recommended interval which many did and if you had seen the state of some presented for scrutineering you might think differently.

[bigothunter]

GlobalRacer said:

So we're ignoring that seat belt life has been extended to 10 years for those to 8853-2016 standards? Not to mention the extension of seat life in rallying?

That's good news - common sense has prevailed

[andy97]

What remains bizarre and has not been addressed in these proposed changes is the differences between club circuit racing and club rallying (broadly):
Medical - racing yes, rallying no
Seat life’s - racing no, rallying yes
Log books/ Tech passports - racing no, rallying yes
Refuelling from cans - racing yes, rallying, largely no (even in the circuit rallies!)
Clothing - nomex gloves & boots - racing yes, rallying no.

There’s probably others if I thought a bit longer.

It’s time we had a common (and common sense) approach based on the lowest level required across the disciplines.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

The race committee is significantly more powerful than the rally committee. So they veto most things.

Also I get the feeling that Rally gets to try the changes first.

[LucyP]

thepawbroon said:

Correct re: medicals not required, but check the detail about your age and any pre-existing conditions.

Medicals are required. Look at 10.1.3 on page 133 of the current Blue Book. Presumably you will be rallying with a car, therefore applying for a car licence.

[bigothunter]

LucyP said:

thepawbroon said:

Correct re: medicals not required, but check the detail about your age and any pre-existing conditions.

Medicals are required. Look at 10.1.3 on page 133 of the current Blue Book. Presumably you will be rallying with a car, therefore applying for a car licence.

Are you sure?

Yearbook 2023 said:

10.1.3. No Car, Truck, Long Circuit Kart Racing or International licence will be issued until the Medical Examination Report, if required, has been completed, endorsed and signed by the applicant’s GP.

https://motorsportuk.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp...

[thepawbroon]

LucyP said:

thepawbroon said:

Correct re: medicals not required, but check the detail about your age and any pre-existing conditions.

Medicals are required. Look at 10.1.3 on page 133 of the current Blue Book. Presumably you will be rallying with a car, therefore applying for a car licence.

For rallying, Medicals are only required for International licences.

[Maxdecel]

Another nail in the coffin for gravel rallying ?

Article by Paul Lawrence:
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/motorsport-news/202...
https://www.pressreader.com/similar/28184864818520...
".....a spectacular case of self harm by those tasked with protecting & promoting the sport ..."

[DelicaL400]

A shame they couldn't find someone less biased to write that article, it's not exactly a balanced piece of reporting.