Group B - ‘you couldn’t give them away’
Discussion
In various places over the years I’ve seen or heard the mention of the fact that after Group B was banned, the dealers were struggling to sell the cars so much that the prices plummeted.
How true actually is that though? Is it just a commonly repeated myth?
From what I can find online, a Clubman spec 6R4 was a shade under £35k +VAT, an RS200 about £50k. How low did the prices get?
How true actually is that though? Is it just a commonly repeated myth?
From what I can find online, a Clubman spec 6R4 was a shade under £35k +VAT, an RS200 about £50k. How low did the prices get?
Don't know about direct from dealers, but certainly the used prices for 'stradales' were a fraction of that seen today.
I was a member of the Lancia club when I had my Integrale and the guy that ran it drove a Delta S4 he paid abut 40 grand for.
On a personal note, many moons ago I used to follow a French classic car site and they had Cesare Fiorio's works engined S4 in black for 70,000 or 90,000 euros, something like that. I was so tempted to remortgage and buy it... now worth well over a million judging by this:
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/es19/essen/lots...
I was a member of the Lancia club when I had my Integrale and the guy that ran it drove a Delta S4 he paid abut 40 grand for.
On a personal note, many moons ago I used to follow a French classic car site and they had Cesare Fiorio's works engined S4 in black for 70,000 or 90,000 euros, something like that. I was so tempted to remortgage and buy it... now worth well over a million judging by this:
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/es19/essen/lots...
I would imagine, for the money at the time in comparison to what you could have bought they were noisy, unrefined, kit car quality, made as quickly as possible to get to the magic 200 (or as near to 200 as they could get away with) and with a lot of cheaper parts thrown at them rather than the exotica fitted in the actual rally cars.
Even at the prices they were offered at, they were probably sold at a significant loss but all accounted for in the rally programme.
Even at the prices they were offered at, they were probably sold at a significant loss but all accounted for in the rally programme.
There is an article I read a while back about Tim Pappas who owns a Lancia Delta S4 Stradale. In the article he mentions that he took it to Turin to have it restored and slightly upgraded by two brothers (likely Elio & Giovanni Baldi) who worked for Lancia back when the cars were made. They told Tim that they were actually crushing the cars that had been built at some point, possibly after Group B was banned. What a shame.
https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-is-what-it-...
https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-is-what-it-...
Being a rallycross fan, Ford literally sold about 5 or 6 RS200's straight after the 86 RAC and they pretty much all raced at the rallycross GP that year still mainly in Ford works livery, Schanche was the only one with an Evolution engine, the rest were all 1.8 but most were 2.1 for the next year. Brit Mark Rennison had enough dough behind him to buy one in mid 86 so stole a march on everyone! I would say maybe 10-15 were used in rallycross from 87 to 92.
Obviously the Metro was very popular over here, I would think more than 20 were used over the years in rallycross, Will Gollop must have used at least 3 or 4 for himself and rental cars and also built several through his company.
The other stuff was obviously less common, there were only three Delta S4's used and I think only about 4 or 5 205's but those 205's were developed a little by PTS and used Pikes Peak spec stuff in their engines.
Audi, again lots of cars, but not many true S1 E2's I think Olle Arnesson had one and there were others, and I do think one foolhardy soul in France somehow got a BX4TC into rallycross too!
Either way for a fan it was an amazing time, the RS200 was developed into a very good car by Schanche and others, all sorts of engines, 2.0, 2.3 even one with turbo and supercharger. But the 205 was king, with the Pikes Peak kit it was well over 600hp very light and dominated.
Then Gollop took over in his Biturbo Metro, interestingly read an interview with john Welch, who during this time was using escort Xtrac and Opel Xtrac cars, that he was very close to buying a Metro in 86 and had already indeed looked at buying a couple of f1 turbos for it for 87, would have been interesting, indeed 2 Norwegians did this one a 2.3 and one a 2.8, the bigger car is still run by the Rowlance crew in hillclimbs. But the Metro was also pushed to nearly 4 litres b people like Goodmans aswell.
Obviously the Metro was very popular over here, I would think more than 20 were used over the years in rallycross, Will Gollop must have used at least 3 or 4 for himself and rental cars and also built several through his company.
The other stuff was obviously less common, there were only three Delta S4's used and I think only about 4 or 5 205's but those 205's were developed a little by PTS and used Pikes Peak spec stuff in their engines.
Audi, again lots of cars, but not many true S1 E2's I think Olle Arnesson had one and there were others, and I do think one foolhardy soul in France somehow got a BX4TC into rallycross too!
Either way for a fan it was an amazing time, the RS200 was developed into a very good car by Schanche and others, all sorts of engines, 2.0, 2.3 even one with turbo and supercharger. But the 205 was king, with the Pikes Peak kit it was well over 600hp very light and dominated.
Then Gollop took over in his Biturbo Metro, interestingly read an interview with john Welch, who during this time was using escort Xtrac and Opel Xtrac cars, that he was very close to buying a Metro in 86 and had already indeed looked at buying a couple of f1 turbos for it for 87, would have been interesting, indeed 2 Norwegians did this one a 2.3 and one a 2.8, the bigger car is still run by the Rowlance crew in hillclimbs. But the Metro was also pushed to nearly 4 litres b people like Goodmans aswell.
cologne2792 said:
dudleybloke said:
1989/90 there was an RS200 for sale in the Ford dealership in Walsall going for £13,000.
Pity I was a skint schoolboy.
Glad my memory is still working.Pity I was a skint schoolboy.
Yes. I remember seeing them in the dealers for £10k.
Coatesy351 said:
cologne2792 said:
dudleybloke said:
1989/90 there was an RS200 for sale in the Ford dealership in Walsall going for £13,000.
Pity I was a skint schoolboy.
Glad my memory is still working.Pity I was a skint schoolboy.
Yes. I remember seeing them in the dealers for £10k.
Some of the Lancia Delta S4's were used in ice racing championships around Europe and also saw some action at Pikes Peak. I have a book at home about the cars development, it goes into a lot of detail and near the end lists the different chassis numbers including liveries and their competition use after Group B was abandoned.
LukeBrown66 said:
I think in places like Spain Group B cars were allowed to run in their sort of invitation class for years, you still saw them in the early 90's at odd times there were certainly a couple of Delta's there. But Lancai being Lancia I would not believe they made 200 of them anyway!!
I love the story that the RS200 was inspected in white and then the first ones were wheeled around the corner for a quick dusting of blue and joined the end of the queue to be inspected again with a different identity....not sure if true but it makes a good story..Caddyshack said:
I love the story that the RS200 was inspected in white and then the first ones were wheeled around the corner for a quick dusting of blue and joined the end of the queue to be inspected again with a different identity....not sure if true but it makes a good story..
It's not true. They were all white and there was no need for any subterfuge as Ford did make 200 cars.
Coatesy351 said:
Caddyshack said:
I love the story that the RS200 was inspected in white and then the first ones were wheeled around the corner for a quick dusting of blue and joined the end of the queue to be inspected again with a different identity....not sure if true but it makes a good story..
It's not true. They were all white and there was no need for any subterfuge as Ford did make 200 cars.
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