Tips on becoming a rally co-driver
Discussion
Helloooo,
I've been "into" rallying for a few years and don't think I am a good enough driver to do it competatively (?sp?) however I like the idea of being involved which leaves either marshalling or co-driving. I've done a bit of marshalling and although it is quite exciting I still need a bit more of a "buzz"
So how do I become a co-driver? How do I find a driver willing to take a newbie on?
What sort of costs would be involved? Does the co-driver normally pay for event entry? How does it normally work?
I'm based in Slough (I'm ok though :0) )
Any suggestions appreciated.
I've been "into" rallying for a few years and don't think I am a good enough driver to do it competatively (?sp?) however I like the idea of being involved which leaves either marshalling or co-driving. I've done a bit of marshalling and although it is quite exciting I still need a bit more of a "buzz"
So how do I become a co-driver? How do I find a driver willing to take a newbie on?
What sort of costs would be involved? Does the co-driver normally pay for event entry? How does it normally work?
I'm based in Slough (I'm ok though :0) )
Any suggestions appreciated.
From my desk in Slough.
I did this some 30 years ago, then it was:
Join a motor club, CSMA, Craven etc. They held closed events, normally quite a cheap way to start (except when I banged my MkI 1300GT Escort which caused me to start the navigation angle!). Need to read a map and not get travel sick.
Not sure about these days
I did this some 30 years ago, then it was:
Join a motor club, CSMA, Craven etc. They held closed events, normally quite a cheap way to start (except when I banged my MkI 1300GT Escort which caused me to start the navigation angle!). Need to read a map and not get travel sick.
Not sure about these days
As said above, join a motor club. I didn't have to find a driver as it was my best mate from school so situations will differ with regards to cost etc.
You will need an approved helmet and FIA suit (not sure on the current regs but you can pick up dual layer nomex for a couple of hundred quid)
I used to run on a stage rally national B licence which would allow me to drive as well. However you now need to complete a rally school to hold this level. I believe there are lower level licences that are for navigating only.
At clubman level get involved with marshalling etc. via your motor club. We co-host an event every year at Manby and are to be found there every year in July
Also, at club level they outlawed the use of pace notes so get used to reading and interpreting a map quickly and accurately, or it is very easy to make a mess
You will need an approved helmet and FIA suit (not sure on the current regs but you can pick up dual layer nomex for a couple of hundred quid)
I used to run on a stage rally national B licence which would allow me to drive as well. However you now need to complete a rally school to hold this level. I believe there are lower level licences that are for navigating only.
At clubman level get involved with marshalling etc. via your motor club. We co-host an event every year at Manby and are to be found there every year in July
Also, at club level they outlawed the use of pace notes so get used to reading and interpreting a map quickly and accurately, or it is very easy to make a mess
As a self confessed masochist co-driver I make the following comments.
1. Be a good passenger, if you are crap in road cars you'll hate rally cars, you have to trust the driver 100%
2. Be good at telling the time and telling the driver/service crew how it is and making them be where you want when you want. You are in charge on the day of the rally and are responsible for all timings from breakfast through to being at the prize giving on time. And even more importantly getting in/out of service and to the stages at the required times.
3. Learn to read a map. Most events offer 'tulip' diagrams of junctions with distances between them. This is no good whatsoever if the road is blocked and you're running late. Being able to read OS maps and navigate around trouble on road sections is essential. Simply staggering how many co-drivers can't read maps.
4. Practice, practice, practice. Whether the event you do is on pacenotes or maps practice reading them until it becomes second nature. When in the car if you lose your place don't be afraid to tell the driver, much better than pretending you're ok and soldiering on!
5. Don't forget to look up occasionally and enjoy the view from inside the car. I love looking at the spectators as we whizz past them! (strange I be!)
6. Be prepared for not a lot of gratitude when it goes well but the blame when it goes tits up. Drivers have big ego's that need massaging regularly!
(To be fair everyone I've codriven for has been brilliant but you hear some horror stories!).
7. Enjoy it, it's something most of those people stood watching wish they could have a go at and it's easy to forget how fortunate those of us that do compete really are.
I hope that helps in some way. Enjoy it!
ETA: In answer to (some of) your original points.
I normally pay the entry but sometimes it's about 1/2. It eases the burden on the driver and makes me feel slightly less guilty if I cock up!
As a newbie if you offer to pay for entries I guarantee you'll get some rides! I'd advise starting off on some single venue type airfield events (around £180-£200 entry fee) and get used to how it all works before venturing onto the multi venue bigger events. Of course you could just dive straight in and go for it but it's up to you!
As others have said the best way to get involved is to join your local motor club and then you'll need at least a Non-race National B licence to co-drive plus a romper suit and helmet. You could kit up with the safety clobber for just over £300 if you wanted but if you want to test the water you can often borrow kit from people.
1. Be a good passenger, if you are crap in road cars you'll hate rally cars, you have to trust the driver 100%
2. Be good at telling the time and telling the driver/service crew how it is and making them be where you want when you want. You are in charge on the day of the rally and are responsible for all timings from breakfast through to being at the prize giving on time. And even more importantly getting in/out of service and to the stages at the required times.
3. Learn to read a map. Most events offer 'tulip' diagrams of junctions with distances between them. This is no good whatsoever if the road is blocked and you're running late. Being able to read OS maps and navigate around trouble on road sections is essential. Simply staggering how many co-drivers can't read maps.
4. Practice, practice, practice. Whether the event you do is on pacenotes or maps practice reading them until it becomes second nature. When in the car if you lose your place don't be afraid to tell the driver, much better than pretending you're ok and soldiering on!
5. Don't forget to look up occasionally and enjoy the view from inside the car. I love looking at the spectators as we whizz past them! (strange I be!)
6. Be prepared for not a lot of gratitude when it goes well but the blame when it goes tits up. Drivers have big ego's that need massaging regularly!
(To be fair everyone I've codriven for has been brilliant but you hear some horror stories!).7. Enjoy it, it's something most of those people stood watching wish they could have a go at and it's easy to forget how fortunate those of us that do compete really are.
I hope that helps in some way. Enjoy it!
ETA: In answer to (some of) your original points.
I normally pay the entry but sometimes it's about 1/2. It eases the burden on the driver and makes me feel slightly less guilty if I cock up!
As a newbie if you offer to pay for entries I guarantee you'll get some rides! I'd advise starting off on some single venue type airfield events (around £180-£200 entry fee) and get used to how it all works before venturing onto the multi venue bigger events. Of course you could just dive straight in and go for it but it's up to you!
As others have said the best way to get involved is to join your local motor club and then you'll need at least a Non-race National B licence to co-drive plus a romper suit and helmet. You could kit up with the safety clobber for just over £300 if you wanted but if you want to test the water you can often borrow kit from people.
Edited by Cyder on Tuesday 3rd April 14:07
Is there any kind of sprint series that has a driver/co driver layout? That at least would be somewhat less intimidating than a 'real' rally and provide a reasonably easy way to understand the pressures of the role? I tried a web search but didn't find anything definitive. (honest - I did try)...
paolow said:
Is there any kind of sprint series that has a driver/co driver layout? That at least would be somewhat less intimidating than a 'real' rally and provide a reasonably easy way to understand the pressures of the role? I tried a web search but didn't find anything definitive. (honest - I did try)...
Road rallying is similar, you have to do all the map reading and time keeping but the driver might be going a bit slower.Cyder said:
As a self confessed masochist co-driver I make the following comments.
1. Be a good passenger, if you are crap in road cars you'll hate rally cars, you have to trust the driver 100%
2. Be good at telling the time and telling the driver/service crew how it is and making them be where you want when you want. You are in charge on the day of the rally and are responsible for all timings from breakfast through to being at the prize giving on time. And even more importantly getting in/out of service and to the stages at the required times.
3. Learn to read a map. Most events offer 'tulip' diagrams of junctions with distances between them. This is no good whatsoever if the road is blocked and you're running late. Being able to read OS maps and navigate around trouble on road sections is essential. Simply staggering how many co-drivers can't read maps.
4. Practice, practice, practice. Whether the event you do is on pacenotes or maps practice reading them until it becomes second nature. When in the car if you lose your place don't be afraid to tell the driver, much better than pretending you're ok and soldiering on!
5. Don't forget to look up occasionally and enjoy the view from inside the car. I love looking at the spectators as we whizz past them! (strange I be!)
6. Be prepared for not a lot of gratitude when it goes well but the blame when it goes tits up. Drivers have big ego's that need massaging regularly! (To be fair everyone I've codriven for has been brilliant but you hear some horror stories!).
7. Enjoy it, it's something most of those people stood watching wish they could have a go at and it's easy to forget how fortunate those of us that do compete really are.
I hope that helps in some way. Enjoy it!
ETA: In answer to (some of) your original points.
I normally pay the entry but sometimes it's about 1/2. It eases the burden on the driver and makes me feel slightly less guilty if I cock up!
As a newbie if you offer to pay for entries I guarantee you'll get some rides! I'd advise starting off on some single venue type airfield events (around £180-£200 entry fee) and get used to how it all works before venturing onto the multi venue bigger events. Of course you could just dive straight in and go for it but it's up to you!
As others have said the best way to get involved is to join your local motor club and then you'll need at least a Non-race National B licence to co-drive plus a romper suit and helmet. You could kit up with the safety clobber for just over £300 if you wanted but if you want to test the water you can often borrow kit from people.
Another waver of the co-driver flag here.... been doing it since 2003 on gravel multi-venue, tarmac single venue, road rallies...in fact just about anything that comes along.1. Be a good passenger, if you are crap in road cars you'll hate rally cars, you have to trust the driver 100%
2. Be good at telling the time and telling the driver/service crew how it is and making them be where you want when you want. You are in charge on the day of the rally and are responsible for all timings from breakfast through to being at the prize giving on time. And even more importantly getting in/out of service and to the stages at the required times.
3. Learn to read a map. Most events offer 'tulip' diagrams of junctions with distances between them. This is no good whatsoever if the road is blocked and you're running late. Being able to read OS maps and navigate around trouble on road sections is essential. Simply staggering how many co-drivers can't read maps.
4. Practice, practice, practice. Whether the event you do is on pacenotes or maps practice reading them until it becomes second nature. When in the car if you lose your place don't be afraid to tell the driver, much better than pretending you're ok and soldiering on!
5. Don't forget to look up occasionally and enjoy the view from inside the car. I love looking at the spectators as we whizz past them! (strange I be!)
6. Be prepared for not a lot of gratitude when it goes well but the blame when it goes tits up. Drivers have big ego's that need massaging regularly!
(To be fair everyone I've codriven for has been brilliant but you hear some horror stories!).7. Enjoy it, it's something most of those people stood watching wish they could have a go at and it's easy to forget how fortunate those of us that do compete really are.
I hope that helps in some way. Enjoy it!
ETA: In answer to (some of) your original points.
I normally pay the entry but sometimes it's about 1/2. It eases the burden on the driver and makes me feel slightly less guilty if I cock up!
As a newbie if you offer to pay for entries I guarantee you'll get some rides! I'd advise starting off on some single venue type airfield events (around £180-£200 entry fee) and get used to how it all works before venturing onto the multi venue bigger events. Of course you could just dive straight in and go for it but it's up to you!
As others have said the best way to get involved is to join your local motor club and then you'll need at least a Non-race National B licence to co-drive plus a romper suit and helmet. You could kit up with the safety clobber for just over £300 if you wanted but if you want to test the water you can often borrow kit from people.
Edited by Cyder on Tuesday 3rd April 14:07
I've agree with all the points made above, plus I'd say get yourself on to the British Rally Forum over at www.britishrally.co.uk They're not as friendly as PH and much more cliquey but there's a world of good advice on there and a section for drivers looking for co-drivers.
License wise, if you want to co-drive on stage events or road rallies then you'll need a non-race, National B license... yours for 34 quid from the MSA
If you start with just 12 cars and scatters etc then all you need is membership to the motor club.
Good luck, there's no feeling like sitting on the start line of a gravel event watching the lights count down.... I love it!
ETA: bugger, sorry E50 Del noticed you did mention licences Noone here seems to have mentioned that you'll need to apply to the MSA for a licence. Once you get one of these (it's easier for navs because you don't have to do a test) they'll send you a copy of the Blue Book which there are many sections you will want/need to commit to memory.
There are various bits of paraphernalia that you'll want to add to your lid and suit...
DON'T buy pixie boots, leave that to the driver. It's you that will end up getting out in the mud a pushing so a stout pair of boots comes in handy.
Get a good stopwatch (or even two)
Get a waterproof zipup bag with enough space for A4 Roadbooks, Maps, Notes, pens, pencils, a mini maglite and a clip board. It's always helpful to have your clipboard double as an SOS/OK board in case the driver forgets to pack one.
Intercom: Depending upon who you end up co-driving for you'll have to ensure that your lid has a compatible mike and phones. Another thing about lids, I prefer open face, it makes it easy to eat MacDonalds when you call in at the drive-thru
Although a bit dated, Rally Co-Driving by Phil Short is a worthwhile read.
Learn the mantra "To finish first, first you have to finish"
Be prepared to be blamed of anything and everything that may go wrong (develop a thick skin.)
Don't be afraid to ask questions of other co-drivers, they don't bite and are usually sympathetic as they were a noob once too.
Remember that you will not only be responsible for ensuring that the driver finds his way throughout the rally but also ensuring he doesn't wander off in the service park (as they have a habit of doing!)
You'll probably end up being the team manager and secretary aswell because drivers can't be arsed with paperwork and just want to fire off down the stage at warp factor 10. These duties normally involve ensuring that the entire crew know where they are going, booking hotels, reminding the driver to put fuel in the car etc.
I think this will do for a start. Any questions, feel free to ask.
Good luck!
TeamD, previously East Midlands Regional Champion Co-driver (twice)
There are various bits of paraphernalia that you'll want to add to your lid and suit...
DON'T buy pixie boots, leave that to the driver. It's you that will end up getting out in the mud a pushing so a stout pair of boots comes in handy.
Get a good stopwatch (or even two)
Get a waterproof zipup bag with enough space for A4 Roadbooks, Maps, Notes, pens, pencils, a mini maglite and a clip board. It's always helpful to have your clipboard double as an SOS/OK board in case the driver forgets to pack one.
Intercom: Depending upon who you end up co-driving for you'll have to ensure that your lid has a compatible mike and phones. Another thing about lids, I prefer open face, it makes it easy to eat MacDonalds when you call in at the drive-thru
Although a bit dated, Rally Co-Driving by Phil Short is a worthwhile read.
Learn the mantra "To finish first, first you have to finish"
Be prepared to be blamed of anything and everything that may go wrong (develop a thick skin.)
Don't be afraid to ask questions of other co-drivers, they don't bite and are usually sympathetic as they were a noob once too.
Remember that you will not only be responsible for ensuring that the driver finds his way throughout the rally but also ensuring he doesn't wander off in the service park (as they have a habit of doing!)
You'll probably end up being the team manager and secretary aswell because drivers can't be arsed with paperwork and just want to fire off down the stage at warp factor 10. These duties normally involve ensuring that the entire crew know where they are going, booking hotels, reminding the driver to put fuel in the car etc.
I think this will do for a start. Any questions, feel free to ask.
Good luck!
TeamD, previously East Midlands Regional Champion Co-driver (twice)
Edited by TeamD on Friday 6th April 12:36
Edited by TeamD on Friday 6th April 12:38
I'll agree with all of the above, also, if you're doing a multi-venue with road sections, for gods sake have a road atlas in the car.... organisers maps and tulips are great, but if you hit traffic and need to re-route, a decent atlas can make all the difference.
TeamD said:
Good luck!
TeamD, previously East Midlands Regional Champion Co-driver (twice)
You beat me.... ASWMC Loose Surface (gravel) Champion Co-driver (once) Sebron Road Rally Champion Co-Driver (once) lolTeamD, previously East Midlands Regional Champion Co-driver (twice)
I've codriven (funnily enough from the user name) I started quite a long time ago..
Have a search for Andrew Bargerys website, used to be full of useful information, get a copy of Phil Shorts book (*coughi have a spare copy) join craven, their chairman Bryan Hull is very helpful..
You may want to shadow a co-driver on an event to see what goes on. Start with a single venue or road rallies.
If you are any good the opportunities are endless, I've competed throughout the uk and europe. If you need any more help feel free to pm..
Have a search for Andrew Bargerys website, used to be full of useful information, get a copy of Phil Shorts book (*coughi have a spare copy) join craven, their chairman Bryan Hull is very helpful..
You may want to shadow a co-driver on an event to see what goes on. Start with a single venue or road rallies.
If you are any good the opportunities are endless, I've competed throughout the uk and europe. If you need any more help feel free to pm..
Resurrecting a very old thread..............
If anyone ever wants to take up co-driving or have a look at what it takes have a look at my website.
www.hqmotorsport.com or www.rallymatcher.co.uk
If anyone ever wants to take up co-driving or have a look at what it takes have a look at my website.
www.hqmotorsport.com or www.rallymatcher.co.uk
Gassing Station | Rallying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff