Best rally car of all time
Discussion
m8rky said:
Well out of curiosity i will ask why? as if you examine the statistics the Xsara shapes up quite well to the Stratos with equal amount of constructors championships,and in terms of overall championships Citroen is second to Lancia but with a superior amount of drivers championships.Indeed if you count Peugeot,s constructors championships in with Citroens as a PSA group amount of championships they actually beat Lancia.
Based on your dismissal of the Xsara with its strong and enduring WRC showings then i guess you must also dismiss the Subaru Impreza.
With regard Loebs utter dominance of the drivers championship well his record speaks for itself and he has had some stiff competition but best driver with the best team is always going to win.
So what is the "point of it all" if not to win drivers and constructors championships which Citroen have admirably achieved as indeed have Lancia.
You're trying to bring rational and quantifiable thought to this subject. This subject matter is purely emotional, like whose baby is cutest.Based on your dismissal of the Xsara with its strong and enduring WRC showings then i guess you must also dismiss the Subaru Impreza.
With regard Loebs utter dominance of the drivers championship well his record speaks for itself and he has had some stiff competition but best driver with the best team is always going to win.
So what is the "point of it all" if not to win drivers and constructors championships which Citroen have admirably achieved as indeed have Lancia.
ArnageWRC said:
Well if you like Escorts - there will be plenty of them out in December at the R.A.C Rally.
http://www.rogeralbertclarkrally.org/RAC_2011/2011...
As for the photos of Rohrl in the Opel Kadett - Peter Smith (father of Guy) uses in one in clubman/Historic Rallying, and in the same colour scheme!!
Thank for the Link, I am going to look forward to seeing Rally cars in Hamsterly again ( & Croft ) ...http://www.rogeralbertclarkrally.org/RAC_2011/2011...
As for the photos of Rohrl in the Opel Kadett - Peter Smith (father of Guy) uses in one in clubman/Historic Rallying, and in the same colour scheme!!
I remember when the Lombard RAC was 5/6 days long & blind, compared to the charade that is the Rally of Wales; the Welsh Rally in the British Open used to be longer !
Having read all this, and despite my tabling of a small French 1600cc car as a favourite, I must admit a fondness for the "555" Subarus. For nothing else than Petter's stage record on Ouninpouja:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I_EHrDZRvQ
But that's the rub with this thread, though. Everyone has their version of the "best" rally car, and - of course - everyone is absolutely correct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I_EHrDZRvQ
But that's the rub with this thread, though. Everyone has their version of the "best" rally car, and - of course - everyone is absolutely correct.
kiteless said:
Having read all this, and despite my tabling of a small French 1600cc car as a favourite, I must admit a fondness for the "555" Subarus.
But that's the rub with this thread, though. Everyone has their version of the "best" rally car, and - of course - everyone is absolutely correct.
This is problem...... too many people are confusing 'best' with 'their favourite'.....which isn't the same thing But that's the rub with this thread, though. Everyone has their version of the "best" rally car, and - of course - everyone is absolutely correct.
aeropilot said:
I’ll give you an explanation.
Too many people here seem to be just thinking of rallying as WRC events. Well, rallying is much more than just WRC events, and this is why no WRC or Group B car is entitled to the greatest rally car title, because, they are simply too expensive and beyond most privateers, and Group B in particular, was also too short in duration. As great as the 206T16E2 was as a rally car, it lasted just two seasons. The Citroen Xsara/C4 is undoubtably the greatest WRC car, the 206T16 probably the greatest Group B car and the Intergale the greatest of the Group A cars.
But, the Escort has to be the greatest of all time, because of it’s sheer longevity. From a club competitor winning a road rally in the 70’s in his almost standard Mexico or RS2000, to a full on Group 4 BDG from Boreham to todays reborn cars in classic rallying, the Escort is king.
Even when Group B assaulted all our senses in the 1980’s, and later on into the Group A days, if you went to any single venue stage rally in the UK or an Irish or Scandanvian rally...........you would still see upteen Escorts being used. That's 43 years as probably the worlds favourite and most used rally car, from basic club competitors to world champions.
Oh, and the worlds toughest and longest ever rally was won by........an Escort.
Exactly my thoughts too, well put. As soon as somebody on a forum like this says 'rally' everybody thinks WRC, as you say there is far more to rallying than that, there are still hundreds of rallies in this country and in virtually every single event you will find an Escort, many times they will be in the top ten if not winning, this isn't just in classic or historic events either. Too many people here seem to be just thinking of rallying as WRC events. Well, rallying is much more than just WRC events, and this is why no WRC or Group B car is entitled to the greatest rally car title, because, they are simply too expensive and beyond most privateers, and Group B in particular, was also too short in duration. As great as the 206T16E2 was as a rally car, it lasted just two seasons. The Citroen Xsara/C4 is undoubtably the greatest WRC car, the 206T16 probably the greatest Group B car and the Intergale the greatest of the Group A cars.
But, the Escort has to be the greatest of all time, because of it’s sheer longevity. From a club competitor winning a road rally in the 70’s in his almost standard Mexico or RS2000, to a full on Group 4 BDG from Boreham to todays reborn cars in classic rallying, the Escort is king.
Even when Group B assaulted all our senses in the 1980’s, and later on into the Group A days, if you went to any single venue stage rally in the UK or an Irish or Scandanvian rally...........you would still see upteen Escorts being used. That's 43 years as probably the worlds favourite and most used rally car, from basic club competitors to world champions.
Oh, and the worlds toughest and longest ever rally was won by........an Escort.
snowy slopes said:
This isnt a poll to see what the best is results wise, but in your opinion, what do you think is the best, and why??
I am going for the stratos, as being the best purpose built rally car, and for being that difficult to tame, only Sandro Munari could tame it properly. Oh, and having that engine in it.
Over to you guys and gals
Best is difficult, as in best at what? And do you only mean WRC or National level rallying, or including indurance, Dakar, rally raid, hill rallying and the like?I am going for the stratos, as being the best purpose built rally car, and for being that difficult to tame, only Sandro Munari could tame it properly. Oh, and having that engine in it.
Over to you guys and gals
The Statos is certainly great by the fact it was really the first purpose built rally car. Although I suppose you could also look at it as the beginning of the end, as ultimately it's the car that led to Grp B, and their banning and being left with the dull rally cars of today all having to conform to be almost a 1 make series.
So totally ignoring the 'best' bit I can certainly point out some of my favourites.
300bhp/ton said:
snowy slopes said:
This isnt a poll to see what the best is results wise, but in your opinion, what do you think is the best, and why??
I am going for the stratos, as being the best purpose built rally car, and for being that difficult to tame, only Sandro Munari could tame it properly. Oh, and having that engine in it.
Over to you guys and gals
Best is difficult, as in best at what? And do you only mean WRC or National level rallying, or including indurance, Dakar, rally raid, hill rallying and the like?I am going for the stratos, as being the best purpose built rally car, and for being that difficult to tame, only Sandro Munari could tame it properly. Oh, and having that engine in it.
Over to you guys and gals
The Statos is certainly great by the fact it was really the first purpose built rally car. Although I suppose you could also look at it as the beginning of the end, as ultimately it's the car that led to Grp B, and their banning and being left with the dull rally cars of today all having to conform to be almost a 1 make series.
So totally ignoring the 'best' bit I can certainly point out some of my favourites.
Lancia 037 for being the only 2 wheel drive car to beat off the mighty Audi Quattro.
Lancia S4 for being completely insane.
Lancia ECV for what it could have been if Group B hadn't been canned.
Audi Quattro simply because it changed the whole game.
Mini Cooper because it got up the nose of the Italians.
Lancia S4 for being completely insane.
Lancia ECV for what it could have been if Group B hadn't been canned.
Audi Quattro simply because it changed the whole game.
Mini Cooper because it got up the nose of the Italians.
Snoggledog said:
Lancia 037 for being the only 2 wheel drive car to beat off the mighty Audi Quattro.
Lancia S4 for being completely insane.
Lancia ECV for what it could have been if Group B hadn't been canned.
Audi Quattro simply because it changed the whole game.
Mini Cooper because it got up the nose of the Italians.
Whilst the ECV was more S4 based the ECV2 was supposed to be putting out 1000bhp, looked completely bonkers too Lancia S4 for being completely insane.
Lancia ECV for what it could have been if Group B hadn't been canned.
Audi Quattro simply because it changed the whole game.
Mini Cooper because it got up the nose of the Italians.
I have a real soft spot for the Sport quattro, but as has been said the Escorts did it all, and for everyone. Vatanen's 'Black Escort' is my favourite as it was reckoned to be the ultimate in its time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbl8LgLXwRo&fea... Nutter!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbl8LgLXwRo&fea... Nutter!
The best is the Escort.
Why....
Its longevity, Its winningness against opposition 20 - 30 years younger, its mechanical simplicity. The sheer number of events it has won..It excelled on tarmac AND loose surface.
Plus..I have a ford book It is called "The Ford Escort Group 4 Rally Preparation manual" How many people of today can build a genuine full works modern rally car for real money in your back garden at home. Answer, you cannot. but you could back then and now and win.
Modern rally cars cannot be bought from a showroom. An Escort always could...
It still wins today, and It can still be built at home.
Other cars have came and went, some were faster, some were prettier, some blew you away with the noise or technology. The Escort is still as good today as it always was..
The car people still go to see Is BDA powered and rear wheel driven with a live axle
End Of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCGMEDxw0Uc
N.
Why....
Its longevity, Its winningness against opposition 20 - 30 years younger, its mechanical simplicity. The sheer number of events it has won..It excelled on tarmac AND loose surface.
Plus..I have a ford book It is called "The Ford Escort Group 4 Rally Preparation manual" How many people of today can build a genuine full works modern rally car for real money in your back garden at home. Answer, you cannot. but you could back then and now and win.
Modern rally cars cannot be bought from a showroom. An Escort always could...
It still wins today, and It can still be built at home.
Other cars have came and went, some were faster, some were prettier, some blew you away with the noise or technology. The Escort is still as good today as it always was..
The car people still go to see Is BDA powered and rear wheel driven with a live axle
End Of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCGMEDxw0Uc
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Friday 13th May 07:00
Yes, the escort is a great car, after all my favourite rally driver(ari vatanen) won his title in one,but anyone could own one, and anyone could drive one. Hell, if i took up rallying now, in theory i could be in a better car than vatanens black MCD escort. With the stratos,very few people ever drove one, even less could drive it effectively. Also, if you go to ireland, or the mainland historic rallying, how man escorts might you see? Now think how many stratos you might see? One, steve perez's car, hence why imho it will always be the best
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