Anyone specced a Taycan 4s?
Discussion
Was toying with the idea of getting myself a Christmas present, er, I mean a sensible car for the school run and am stumped by the drivetrain options on the Taycan...
PTV Plus... Rear wheel torque vectoring. Presumably with only one motor on the back axle it has an open or slip diff and torque vectoring just uses the brakes independently to move the torque around? If you don't get this tell me you don't have an open diff!?
PDCC Sport... Dynamic Chassis Control. So active roll bars? Meh. Appreciate it's a heavy car but with so much weight presumably below the roll center does it really need active control?
Sport Chrono... Ability to switch between driving modes. If you don't have this are you stuck in one mode?
Any thoughts welcome. Cheers
PTV Plus... Rear wheel torque vectoring. Presumably with only one motor on the back axle it has an open or slip diff and torque vectoring just uses the brakes independently to move the torque around? If you don't get this tell me you don't have an open diff!?
PDCC Sport... Dynamic Chassis Control. So active roll bars? Meh. Appreciate it's a heavy car but with so much weight presumably below the roll center does it really need active control?
Sport Chrono... Ability to switch between driving modes. If you don't have this are you stuck in one mode?
Any thoughts welcome. Cheers
I had my new Taycan 4S delivered last Thursday. Have only driven it once due to work and being tied down with the lockdown, however can offer some insight. Mine with the Performance battery plus came to £103K which is plenty for a 4S otherwise just get a Turbo. I didn't tick any of the options you mentioned as they're not needed on the Taycan due to the extremely low CoG and great steering.
I even picked the 20'' wheels as the 21'' Mission e wheels really hammers the range especially at motorway speeds. It handles like a dream and rides like a limo on the 20'' wheels. Due to the nature of the car and its weight i think the less complicated its chassis in terms of adding options the better. Sport Chrono is purely a gimic on the Taycan as you get all three driving modes as standard so you're just paying for a silly clock and steering wheel mode switch.
As i mentioned if you add too many options then just get the Turbo. Another point is the 4S PP battery is 85Kg lighter than the Turbo which aids speed and handling prowess in itself. I have spent the money on Adaptive CC, 14 ways, heated seats F/R, full leather, Pano roof. Passenger display and 4 zone climate which all make the Taycan a better car to be in.
The Taycan is a brilliant car to drive and disguises its weight much better than the various Panameras i've owned over the years.
I even picked the 20'' wheels as the 21'' Mission e wheels really hammers the range especially at motorway speeds. It handles like a dream and rides like a limo on the 20'' wheels. Due to the nature of the car and its weight i think the less complicated its chassis in terms of adding options the better. Sport Chrono is purely a gimic on the Taycan as you get all three driving modes as standard so you're just paying for a silly clock and steering wheel mode switch.
As i mentioned if you add too many options then just get the Turbo. Another point is the 4S PP battery is 85Kg lighter than the Turbo which aids speed and handling prowess in itself. I have spent the money on Adaptive CC, 14 ways, heated seats F/R, full leather, Pano roof. Passenger display and 4 zone climate which all make the Taycan a better car to be in.
The Taycan is a brilliant car to drive and disguises its weight much better than the various Panameras i've owned over the years.
There’s lots of stuff regarding Taycan spec on this forum:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
There’s also a Taycan forum website.
I’ve got a build slot for the new year and have asked a few similar questions but haven’t had a reply as yet.
The demonstrator I’ve driven had none of the performance options you’ve mentioned, except for sports chrono. I didn’t ask until after in order to keep an open mind.
PDCC - I cant imagine needing this. The body control was very impressive, riding on the air suspension and with the weight so low.
PTV - I’m guessing the standard traction control will brake the wheel losing traction. Presumably the PTV will have some sort of electronically controlled LSD to allow a certain difference in wheel speeds?
Sports chrono - there is a mannetino style dial to go through the driving modes. However, there are some touch points to the right of the drivers screen to control these features. Launch control can still be activated without it. The central clock that comes with this looks quite out of place against the rest of the high tech interior in my opinion, but this is a matter of taste I guess.
The 4S is an effortlessly fast car and your M5s, E63s etc would struggle to keep up. I’m not sure these options are necessary, just things to consider. I suspect most owners will have some sort of sports car as well for those occasions.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
There’s also a Taycan forum website.
I’ve got a build slot for the new year and have asked a few similar questions but haven’t had a reply as yet.
The demonstrator I’ve driven had none of the performance options you’ve mentioned, except for sports chrono. I didn’t ask until after in order to keep an open mind.
PDCC - I cant imagine needing this. The body control was very impressive, riding on the air suspension and with the weight so low.
PTV - I’m guessing the standard traction control will brake the wheel losing traction. Presumably the PTV will have some sort of electronically controlled LSD to allow a certain difference in wheel speeds?
Sports chrono - there is a mannetino style dial to go through the driving modes. However, there are some touch points to the right of the drivers screen to control these features. Launch control can still be activated without it. The central clock that comes with this looks quite out of place against the rest of the high tech interior in my opinion, but this is a matter of taste I guess.
The 4S is an effortlessly fast car and your M5s, E63s etc would struggle to keep up. I’m not sure these options are necessary, just things to consider. I suspect most owners will have some sort of sports car as well for those occasions.
fblm said:
Was toying with the idea of getting myself a Christmas present, er, I mean a sensible car for the school run and am stumped by the drivetrain options on the Taycan...
PTV Plus... Rear wheel torque vectoring. Presumably with only one motor on the back axle it has an open or slip diff and torque vectoring just uses the brakes independently to move the torque around? If you don't get this tell me you don't have an open diff!?
PDCC Sport... Dynamic Chassis Control. So active roll bars? Meh. Appreciate it's a heavy car but with so much weight presumably below the roll center does it really need active control?
Sport Chrono... Ability to switch between driving modes. If you don't have this are you stuck in one mode?
Any thoughts welcome. Cheers
Up until recently I had a high spec 4S. My opinion is that the car doesn't need PTV Plus or PDCC. Car felt fine without it and I think those additions would be a waste of money. Just make sure you spec the battery upgrade and glass roof. PTV Plus... Rear wheel torque vectoring. Presumably with only one motor on the back axle it has an open or slip diff and torque vectoring just uses the brakes independently to move the torque around? If you don't get this tell me you don't have an open diff!?
PDCC Sport... Dynamic Chassis Control. So active roll bars? Meh. Appreciate it's a heavy car but with so much weight presumably below the roll center does it really need active control?
Sport Chrono... Ability to switch between driving modes. If you don't have this are you stuck in one mode?
Any thoughts welcome. Cheers
Has anyone fully understood the power advantage of the performance plus battery option?
It seems to take the car from 435 to 490PS and then 570 with launch control.
So given launch control is mostly useful does that mean the most power I’ll effectively get is 490? Or is there another way to get the extra power whilst on the move?
It seems to take the car from 435 to 490PS and then 570 with launch control.
So given launch control is mostly useful does that mean the most power I’ll effectively get is 490? Or is there another way to get the extra power whilst on the move?
arcamalpha said:
Has anyone fully understood the power advantage of the performance plus battery option?
It seems to take the car from 435 to 490PS and then 570 with launch control.
So given launch control is mostly useful does that mean the most power I’ll effectively get is 490? Or is there another way to get the extra power whilst on the move?
Yes, the performance battery gives you more power all the time in the 4S (489 vs 439ps). The Turbo and Turbo S have a higher base power level (625ps), and are the same in normal running - the Turbo S gets more during a lunch than the Turbo (761 vs 680ps). It seems to take the car from 435 to 490PS and then 570 with launch control.
So given launch control is mostly useful does that mean the most power I’ll effectively get is 490? Or is there another way to get the extra power whilst on the move?
You only ever get the bonus power when launching.
DMC2 said:
Up until recently I had a high spec 4S. My opinion is that the car doesn't need PTV Plus or PDCC. Car felt fine without it and I think those additions would be a waste of money. Just make sure you spec the battery upgrade and glass roof.
This is what i did and very happy with my spec. I agree that both PTV+ and/or PDCC is a waste of money on the Taycan 4S. Also 100% agree that both the PP battery and Pano roof are absolute the two 'must haves'Taffy66 said:
I had my new Taycan 4S delivered last Thursday. Have only driven it once due to work and being tied down with the lockdown, however can offer some insight. Mine with the Performance battery plus came to £103K which is plenty for a 4S otherwise just get a Turbo. I didn't tick any of the options you mentioned as they're not needed on the Taycan due to the extremely low CoG and great steering.
I even picked the 20'' wheels as the 21'' Mission e wheels really hammers the range especially at motorway speeds. It handles like a dream and rides like a limo on the 20'' wheels. Due to the nature of the car and its weight i think the less complicated its chassis in terms of adding options the better. Sport Chrono is purely a gimic on the Taycan as you get all three driving modes as standard so you're just paying for a silly clock and steering wheel mode switch.
As i mentioned if you add too many options then just get the Turbo. Another point is the 4S PP battery is 85Kg lighter than the Turbo which aids speed and handling prowess in itself. I have spent the money on Adaptive CC, 14 ways, heated seats F/R, full leather, Pano roof. Passenger display and 4 zone climate which all make the Taycan a better car to be in.
The Taycan is a brilliant car to drive and disguises its weight much better than the various Panameras i've owned over the years.
Many thanks. Yes I figured the battery plus was a must but the only wheel I vaguely like is the mission e so specced those too; I think the longest journey I'll ever do is about 60 miles round trip so don't mind too much.I even picked the 20'' wheels as the 21'' Mission e wheels really hammers the range especially at motorway speeds. It handles like a dream and rides like a limo on the 20'' wheels. Due to the nature of the car and its weight i think the less complicated its chassis in terms of adding options the better. Sport Chrono is purely a gimic on the Taycan as you get all three driving modes as standard so you're just paying for a silly clock and steering wheel mode switch.
As i mentioned if you add too many options then just get the Turbo. Another point is the 4S PP battery is 85Kg lighter than the Turbo which aids speed and handling prowess in itself. I have spent the money on Adaptive CC, 14 ways, heated seats F/R, full leather, Pano roof. Passenger display and 4 zone climate which all make the Taycan a better car to be in.
The Taycan is a brilliant car to drive and disguises its weight much better than the various Panameras i've owned over the years.
Grantstown said:
...
PTV - I’m guessing the standard traction control will brake the wheel losing traction. Presumably the PTV will have some sort of electronically controlled LSD to allow a certain difference in wheel speeds?
...
Yeah not sure. The Porsche website is no use at all; it seems to be aimed at people who have no interest in cars.PTV - I’m guessing the standard traction control will brake the wheel losing traction. Presumably the PTV will have some sort of electronically controlled LSD to allow a certain difference in wheel speeds?
...
Taffy66 said:
DMC2 said:
Up until recently I had a high spec 4S. My opinion is that the car doesn't need PTV Plus or PDCC. Car felt fine without it and I think those additions would be a waste of money. Just make sure you spec the battery upgrade and glass roof.
This is what i did and very happy with my spec. I agree that both PTV+ and/or PDCC is a waste of money on the Taycan 4S. Also 100% agree that both the PP battery and Pano roof are absolute the two 'must haves'Grantstown said:
My latest thoughts before the spec is locked. I guess one would call it ‘poverty spec’ at only 97K!
PM7LW987
Thanks. 'Mine' is also 97k but as it's for export I think I can at least get the VAT back which makes it proper poverty pricing!PM7LW987
PMH1YT68
All quite exciting. My first new car.
I've done quite a bit of research on the difference between open diff, PTV and PTV plus on RWD cars, so I can share my findings. Without PTV, you get an open diff, so if a wheel slips, the car applies brakes to the slipping wheel to slow it, and also cuts engine power.
PTV is on manual cars only and gives you a traditional limited-slip differential. If one wheel loses traction, only a certain amount of slip is allowed, so the wheel does not spin up, allowing engine torque to act on the wheel with traction.
PTV+ is available only on PDK cars, and not on Cayster models. As with PTV you get a limited slip differential, but the amount of slip available is continuously variable and electronically controlled by the chassis control module, gearbox computer and ECU. At low speeds and torque demands, more slip is allowed, whereas at higher speeds and higher torque demands, less slippage is allowed.
I've owned two manual 981 Boxster S cars back to back. The first was a 2012 car with an open diff. In winter conditions with snow/ice or mud on the road, it was easy to lose traction on one or both rear wheels, leading PSM to brake the slipping wheels and the engine to cut power immediately. Quick exits from side roads at moderate power levels meant wheelspin on the inside wheel followed by a cut in engine power.
The second car which I own now is a 2014 car with PTV. In wintry conditions, if one wheel loses traction, the engine power is not cut as the torque is applied to the wheel that still has traction. Only if both rear wheels lose traction, is engine power cut. But it's much less intrusive because it takes much worse conditions for that to happen. Another benefit of PTV is that it enables beautifully controlled power slides and drifts in Sports+ mode, which were not possible without the LSD. Driving in the mountains with tight hairpin bends is so much more fun as you can accelerate out of those bends without any risk of spinning the inside wheel, so you can make much better progress. One disadvantage of PTV is that the car tends to hop much more at very low speeds with very tight steering lock. The LSD doesn't like allowing the car to make such a tight turn as the rear wheel speeds are so different. One of the benefits of PTV plus is that it doesn't do this. At manoeuvring speeds, more slip is allowed.
How much of this translates to the Taycan I don't know, but it's true for RWD Cayster and 911 models. In a car like the Taycan 4S with one motor per axle, it's less likely that you will lose traction on both axles at the same time during normal road driving conditions, but if you are likely to use the car in adverse weather, on wet grass or leaves, or on muddy fields or have an aggressive driving style, then you would definitely see a benefit from PTV.
PTV is on manual cars only and gives you a traditional limited-slip differential. If one wheel loses traction, only a certain amount of slip is allowed, so the wheel does not spin up, allowing engine torque to act on the wheel with traction.
PTV+ is available only on PDK cars, and not on Cayster models. As with PTV you get a limited slip differential, but the amount of slip available is continuously variable and electronically controlled by the chassis control module, gearbox computer and ECU. At low speeds and torque demands, more slip is allowed, whereas at higher speeds and higher torque demands, less slippage is allowed.
I've owned two manual 981 Boxster S cars back to back. The first was a 2012 car with an open diff. In winter conditions with snow/ice or mud on the road, it was easy to lose traction on one or both rear wheels, leading PSM to brake the slipping wheels and the engine to cut power immediately. Quick exits from side roads at moderate power levels meant wheelspin on the inside wheel followed by a cut in engine power.
The second car which I own now is a 2014 car with PTV. In wintry conditions, if one wheel loses traction, the engine power is not cut as the torque is applied to the wheel that still has traction. Only if both rear wheels lose traction, is engine power cut. But it's much less intrusive because it takes much worse conditions for that to happen. Another benefit of PTV is that it enables beautifully controlled power slides and drifts in Sports+ mode, which were not possible without the LSD. Driving in the mountains with tight hairpin bends is so much more fun as you can accelerate out of those bends without any risk of spinning the inside wheel, so you can make much better progress. One disadvantage of PTV is that the car tends to hop much more at very low speeds with very tight steering lock. The LSD doesn't like allowing the car to make such a tight turn as the rear wheel speeds are so different. One of the benefits of PTV plus is that it doesn't do this. At manoeuvring speeds, more slip is allowed.
How much of this translates to the Taycan I don't know, but it's true for RWD Cayster and 911 models. In a car like the Taycan 4S with one motor per axle, it's less likely that you will lose traction on both axles at the same time during normal road driving conditions, but if you are likely to use the car in adverse weather, on wet grass or leaves, or on muddy fields or have an aggressive driving style, then you would definitely see a benefit from PTV.
That’s a really nice summary of the Porsche systems from open diff, to mechanically controlled locker to electronically controlled.
The Taycan will be able to control torque rapidly across the front and rear axles, which will greatly increase stability control anyway. Rather than just tolerate different wheel speeds across the rear axle without needing to apply a breaking force, will PTV in the Taycan have the ability to apply more torque to the outer wheel also, or would this require a 3 motor car?
The Taycan will be able to control torque rapidly across the front and rear axles, which will greatly increase stability control anyway. Rather than just tolerate different wheel speeds across the rear axle without needing to apply a breaking force, will PTV in the Taycan have the ability to apply more torque to the outer wheel also, or would this require a 3 motor car?
Grantstown said:
will PTV in the Taycan have the ability to apply more torque to the outer wheel also, or would this require a 3 motor car?
Oh I forgot to mention that. Both PTV and PTV plus as seen in Boxster/Cayman/911 models do apply more torque to the outer wheel in a bend by braking the inner wheel slightly. That's why it's called PTV and not PLSD. You don't notice it in a bad way, but the difference between a car without PTV and with is very noticeable. When driving at higher speeds, the car with PTV has a much lower tendency to understeer than the car without. I found it quite disconcerting at first, as the lack of understeer gave me the impression that the car was about to flick into oversteer, and it took me some time to relearn the car's handling and become confident in what to expect. The car does still allow you to transition through understeer, neutral and oversteer on the throttle as without PTV, but the front of the car doesn't wash out when given an exaggerated steering input in the same way that the open diff car did, especially when it's wet. It feels like the car is more on rails than on tyres, but you can of course break the rear free at will with a jab of throttle if you so wish, but only in sport plus mode or with PSM disabled.All in all I find it quite odd to drive a RWD Porsche without an LSD now as it just feels strange. Looser, sloppier and less predictable. I would never forgo PTV if I were speccing a Porsche now, considering that the cost to benefit ratio. But then I have a heavy right foot and like to take my car to the Alps or Pyrenees once or twice a year and in that environment it allows me the kind of precise control when I want to slice through the bends while also allowing me the ability to lay on a bit of a drift round some bends when I'm sure there's nothing coming the other way. In other words, it makes me feel like a hero. PTV and PSE are the two things that make a great car a fantastic one. But if you're more of a relaxed driver and you're going to be using the car mostly in good weather, you're not into sliding/skidding/drifting and you never find you break traction when you drive, then you could easily leave PTV out of your spec and never feel you're missing out. On a 4WD electric car, it's going to be even less important.
Edited by LunarOne on Monday 26th October 18:05
I'm afraid I can't help with that. I've downloaded all of the technical data and materials available in the press kits on the US and German press sites, and I haven't found anything relevant for the Taycan 4S.
https://press.porsche.com/prod/presse_pag/PressRes...
https://press.porsche.com/prod/presse_pag/PressRes...
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