Porsche Taycan and future Porsche EVs and values

[AMVSVNick]

Murph7355 said:

Nobody really knows.

Data from Tesla suggests, I believe, that degradation is lower than expected at high age/mileage. But we'll see.

A barometer will be what Porsche do with extended warranties on batteries as the oldest cars get towards 7yrs old.

Yep. The other factor of course is £60k in depreciation buys an awful lot of fuel

[Grantstown]

AMVSVNick said:

Murph7355 said:

Nobody really knows.

Data from Tesla suggests, I believe, that degradation is lower than expected at high age/mileage. But we'll see.

A barometer will be what Porsche do with extended warranties on batteries as the oldest cars get towards 7yrs old.

Yep. The other factor of course is £60k in depreciation buys an awful lot of fuel

If you buy a 2nd hand Taycan at £75K it’ll still be a long time until it’s worth 15.

Regarding the battery, I would anticipate that Porsche will have no option, but to continue with their 15 year, 125K extended warranty scheme, or they would be devaluing their entire reputation.

[youngsyr]

Grantstown said:

AMVSVNick said:

Murph7355 said:

Nobody really knows.

Data from Tesla suggests, I believe, that degradation is lower than expected at high age/mileage. But we'll see.

A barometer will be what Porsche do with extended warranties on batteries as the oldest cars get towards 7yrs old.

Yep. The other factor of course is £60k in depreciation buys an awful lot of fuel

If you buy a 2nd hand Taycan at £75K it’ll still be a long time until it’s worth 15.

Regarding the battery, I would anticipate that Porsche will have no option, but to continue with their 15 year, 125K extended warranty scheme, or they would be devaluing their entire reputation.

We're already past year 7 with hybrid panameras and no extended warranty in sight?

And you can pick up a hybrid panamera for around 25k.

[Grantstown]

EVs will have to have a full extendable warranty to 15 years or Porsche won’t be successful in the future. It should be fine though as it’s the other parts of the car that will typically fail, as we all know that Porsche peripherals can be pretty shoddy.

[stanlow45]

Grantstown said:

EVs will have to have a full extendable warranty to 15 years

Probably but will almost certainly exclude the battery.

[Discombobulate]

Grantstown said:

EVs will have to have a full extendable warranty to 15 years or Porsche won’t be successful in the future. It should be fine though as it’s the other parts of the car that will typically fail, as we all know that Porsche peripherals can be pretty shoddy.

This. Our 997 is just over 15 years old (68K miles) and is like Trigger's broom. Everything from new suspension (except coils) and coolant lines, to brake lines, and water and tandem pumps. Oh, and the engine has had a rebuild too...
An EV is likely to be much hardier given fewer things to wear out. Well, it can't be worse surely...

[youngsyr]

Grantstown said:

EVs will have to have a full extendable warranty to 15 years or Porsche won’t be successful in the future. It should be fine though as it’s the other parts of the car that will typically fail, as we all know that Porsche peripherals can be pretty shoddy.

???

Porsche sold more than 20,000 Taycans every year starting in 2020, all without a 15 year warranty.

At what point are they going to have to introduce it by to avoid their doom?

[Grantstown]

youngsyr said:

???

Porsche sold more than 20,000 Taycans every year starting in 2020, all without a 15 year warranty.

At what point are they going to have to introduce it by to avoid their doom?

We’ll find out in 2027, bit it will be the Porsche extendable warranty, rather than the manufacturers warranty. It’s the optional one that I’m just starting now.

[youngsyr]

Grantstown said:

youngsyr said:

???

Porsche sold more than 20,000 Taycans every year starting in 2020, all without a 15 year warranty.

At what point are they going to have to introduce it by to avoid their doom?

We’ll find out in 2027, bit it will be the Porsche extendable warranty, rather than the manufacturers warranty. It’s the optional one that I’m just starting now.

We'll find out what in 2027???

[Murph7355]

youngsyr said:

We'll find out what in 2027???

I think the context was that if they effectively leave customers high and dry after 8yrs, with no ability to cover under warranty, because battery packs are failing and costing fortunes to repair/replace, that 20k per yr sales figure would be at serious risk.

And not just that figure, as by then they'll be using similar tech in multiple model lines.

What we'll know significantly more about by 2027 is how well Porsche's application of this battery tech is holding up in the real world. They'll have a fair body of data growing already... So will also be interesting to see when they release warranty products.

[Grantstown]

Murph7355 said:

I think the context was that if they effectively leave customers high and dry after 8yrs, with no ability to cover under warranty, because battery packs are failing and costing fortunes to repair/replace, that 20k per yr sales figure would be at serious risk.

And not just that figure, as by then they'll be using similar tech in multiple model lines.

What we'll know significantly more about by 2027 is how well Porsche's application of this battery tech is holding up in the real world. They'll have a fair body of data growing already... So will also be interesting to see when they release warranty products.

Precisely this.

Ps. I love your garage btw. Talk about covering all the bases. I’m thinking about adding a Caterham too. I’ll probably need my boys to be a couple of years older, so that they can really get involved with the self build.

[Murph7355]

Thanks (reminded me to update it - RS4 now gone ).

Definitely do the Caterham thing. Mine's been largely unused while the kids were small... But should be getting it back on the road next year as they're taking a lot of interest in it.

[stuckmojo]

Murph7355 said:

I think the context was that if they effectively leave customers high and dry after 8yrs, with no ability to cover under warranty, because battery packs are failing and costing fortunes to repair/replace, that 20k per yr sales figure would be at serious risk.

And not just that figure, as by then they'll be using similar tech in multiple model lines.

What we'll know significantly more about by 2027 is how well Porsche's application of this battery tech is holding up in the real world. They'll have a fair body of data growing already... So will also be interesting to see when they release warranty products.

Aren't all Porsche cars eligible for the extended warranty? My Macan is and i wouldn't run a modern Porsche without one.

If they explicitly excluded the battery that's the 2nd hand Taycan market killed. And a massive vote of no confidence on their own product. I reckon they'll cover it as the cost of not doing it would be much bigger in brand value erosion

[youngsyr]

Murph7355 said:

youngsyr said:

We'll find out what in 2027???

I think the context was that if they effectively leave customers high and dry after 8yrs, with no ability to cover under warranty, because battery packs are failing and costing fortunes to repair/replace, that 20k per yr sales figure would be at serious risk.

And not just that figure, as by then they'll be using similar tech in multiple model lines.

What we'll know significantly more about by 2027 is how well Porsche's application of this battery tech is holding up in the real world. They'll have a fair body of data growing already... So will also be interesting to see when they release warranty products.

... which is nonsense, because:

(a) EVs are currently massively incentivised to company car owners/users, who typically get rid of their car well before it's 7 years old, so couldn't care less about the extended warranty; and

(b) there are already 13 year old hybrid Panameras with expensive batteries that are still worth £20k+ without an extended warranty.

[Murph7355]

stuckmojo said:

Aren't all Porsche cars eligible for the extended warranty? My Macan is and i wouldn't run a modern Porsche without one.

If they explicitly excluded the battery that's the 2nd hand Taycan market killed. And a massive vote of no confidence on their own product. I reckon they'll cover it as the cost of not doing it would be much bigger in brand value erosion

Taycans are eligible for everything... apart from the battery.....

.... which has its own 8yr/100k miles warranty.

All AIUI.

[Murph7355]

youngsyr said:

... which is nonsense, because:

(a) EVs are currently massively incentivised to company car owners/users, who typically get rid of their car well before it's 7 years old, so couldn't care less about the extended warranty; and

(b) there are already 13 year old hybrid Panameras with expensive batteries that are still worth £20k+ without an extended warranty.

Ah, but....

(a) company car buyers sell their cars on, and will stop buying them if there's bugger all takers for their latest metal after a few years (witness the caterwauling on used values now...probably by those with no intent to purchase anyway)

and

(b) how much is a Panamera battery? Is it defo not covered by extended warranties? How many hybrid Panameras has Porsche sold in the UK (if the one I was loaned was anything to go by, I doubt very many!)


Again, I think the context is important. It doesn't matter much now, as they all have at least 5yrs warranty left and likely 50k miles.

I reckon Porsche will change their stance in a few years' time.

[stanlow45]

Lol, no one is warranting a battery up to 15 years… Even Tesla cut off at 8 years.

[Grantstown]

youngsyr said:

... which is nonsense, because:

(a) EVs are currently massively incentivised to company car owners/users, who typically get rid of their car well before it's 7 years old, so couldn't care less about the extended warranty; and

(b) there are already 13 year old hybrid Panameras with expensive batteries that are still worth £20k+ without an extended warranty.

Maybe you should send your CV to Porsche? They might offer you a cushy non-exec director role, with all of this business savvy.

[youngsyr]

Murph7355 said:

youngsyr said:

... which is nonsense, because:

(a) EVs are currently massively incentivised to company car owners/users, who typically get rid of their car well before it's 7 years old, so couldn't care less about the extended warranty; and

(b) there are already 13 year old hybrid Panameras with expensive batteries that are still worth £20k+ without an extended warranty.

Ah, but....

(a) company car buyers sell their cars on, and will stop buying them if there's bugger all takers for their latest metal after a few years (witness the caterwauling on used values now...probably by those with no intent to purchase anyway)

and

(b) how much is a Panamera battery? Is it defo not covered by extended warranties? How many hybrid Panameras has Porsche sold in the UK (if the one I was loaned was anything to go by, I doubt very many!)


Again, I think the context is important. It doesn't matter much now, as they all have at least 5yrs warranty left and likely 50k miles.

I reckon Porsche will change their stance in a few years' time.

So why haven't they changed their stance with Panameras?

And why does Porsche have to offer a significantly longer battery than Tesla, who have been selling £100k model S for over a decade?

[youngsyr]

Grantstown said:

youngsyr said:

... which is nonsense, because:

(a) EVs are currently massively incentivised to company car owners/users, who typically get rid of their car well before it's 7 years old, so couldn't care less about the extended warranty; and

(b) there are already 13 year old hybrid Panameras with expensive batteries that are still worth £20k+ without an extended warranty.

Maybe you should send your CV to Porsche? They might offer you a cushy non-exec director role, with all of this business savvy.

Well, I wouldn't bother sending yours in, that's for sure.