Discussion
Was down at Buckmore park yesterday for a half hour of go-karting
Was about a second off the pace of the fastest people there. When I tried to follow them I was getting oversteer problems. They were managing to hold a line through a corner and when I followed them, the back end of my kart would let go causing me to have to do some hilarious full lock antics.
I couldn't work out if moving my seat forward or backward would help in terms of my problem. So thrown out to the masses. Do I put my sea forward or back to make up that second
Was about a second off the pace of the fastest people there. When I tried to follow them I was getting oversteer problems. They were managing to hold a line through a corner and when I followed them, the back end of my kart would let go causing me to have to do some hilarious full lock antics.
I couldn't work out if moving my seat forward or backward would help in terms of my problem. So thrown out to the masses. Do I put my sea forward or back to make up that second
In my limited go-kart experience, I tend to find the following:
Light weight people = faster on the straights, slower on the corners
Heavier people = slower on the straights, faster on the corners
As such, moving the seat backward would increase the weight over the rear axle providing more grip.
I am happy to be corrected though.
Light weight people = faster on the straights, slower on the corners
Heavier people = slower on the straights, faster on the corners
As such, moving the seat backward would increase the weight over the rear axle providing more grip.
I am happy to be corrected though.
I think I read a while ago that there is an unintuitive technique in karts as they use very aggressive caster to help with the fact they have a solid rear axle. If you look when you apply lock the car will unload the inside rear wheel. So to get your cornering speed up you need to put additional load on the outside rear wheel, otherwise that solid rear axle will push you towards oversteer.
So the trick is not lean in to the corner like a motorbike would, but to lean out.
So the trick is not lean in to the corner like a motorbike would, but to lean out.
if in doubt said:
I think I read a while ago that there is an unintuitive technique in karts as they use very aggressive caster to help with the fact they have a solid rear axle. If you look when you apply lock the car will unload the inside rear wheel. So to get your cornering speed up you need to put additional load on the outside rear wheel, otherwise that solid rear axle will push you towards oversteer.
So the trick is not lean in to the corner like a motorbike would, but to lean out.
This is correctSo the trick is not lean in to the corner like a motorbike would, but to lean out.
Are you sure they weren't just making small corrections earlier than you? I've done a bit of track instruction and it's very common (if not almost universal!) for drivers to react far too late to oversteer, when they see it, rather than earlier when they should be feeling it. If you react early, just a small movement of steering to reduce lock is all that's needed (plus, especially with a car, the appropriate control with throttle and brakes; or as you get better, often just these two controls and leave the steering alone); whereas if you react too late, you'll need a much bigger movement, the downside of which is that being sideways scrubs off speed, plus at high slip angles tyres generate less grip - all tyres have an optimum slip angle for grip, and I suspect that's where the second difference is. Watch anyone good at karting and you'll notice lots of fine control in the corners, holding the kart at the optimum slip angle. Put simply, if you're putting in actual opposite lock, rather than just backing off the steering a bit, then you're usually reacting to the change in balance too late.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 6th September 09:37
if in doubt said:
I think I read a while ago that there is an unintuitive technique in karts as they use very aggressive caster to help with the fact they have a solid rear axle. If you look when you apply lock the car will unload the inside rear wheel. So to get your cornering speed up you need to put additional load on the outside rear wheel, otherwise that solid rear axle will push you towards oversteer.
So the trick is not lean in to the corner like a motorbike would, but to lean out.
That’s what I was also told, it’s all about putting weight where the forces are most impacting the contact patches. So the trick is not lean in to the corner like a motorbike would, but to lean out.
I was also told that on karts where the rear wheels are brakes, use your arms to resist dive on braking. Keeping your arse pressed down into the back of the seat keeps more force over the braking wheels, reducing potential lock up especially when putting some steering angle on.
james_gt3rs said:
All things not equal in Karting either... everyone could have different age tyres, different driver weights, healthier engines etc
This is the biggest factor in my experience. Even on tracks with lap times under 20 seconds, I can often make or lose a second a lap simply by swapping karts.Edited by kiseca on Friday 6th September 10:14
Plate spinner said:
That’s what I was also told, it’s all about putting weight where the forces are most impacting the contact patches.
I was also told that on karts where the rear wheels are brakes, use your arms to resist dive on braking. Keeping your arse pressed down into the back of the seat keeps more force over the braking wheels, reducing potential lock up especially when putting some steering angle on.
I've never experienced dive on braking in a kart. I was also told that on karts where the rear wheels are brakes, use your arms to resist dive on braking. Keeping your arse pressed down into the back of the seat keeps more force over the braking wheels, reducing potential lock up especially when putting some steering angle on.
You'd struggle to move your weight at all in a kart TBH.
OP, try the following -
Check tyre pressures and raise rear tyre pressure by 1 PSI and reduce front pressure by 1 PSI
Move the seat back and raise it if possible
Raise the rear ride height
Add seat support stays or use a stiffer seat
Increase rear track
Reduce front track
Unfortunately it's trial and error with setup sometimes, too much rear grip can bring problems of it's own.
Leon R said:
People use the brakes on go karts?
Buckmore Park has a few hairpins, not to mention it's on the side of a hill.OP what was your time .. 50s, 51s, 52s .. and how much do you weigh? The RT8 Sodi karts at BP seem very evenly matched - always get new tyres when i go.
Edited by fido on Friday 6th September 09:53
R8Steve said:
I've never experienced dive on braking in a kart.
You'd struggle to move your weight at all in a kart TBH.
OP, try the following -
Check tyre pressures and raise rear tyre pressure by 1 PSI and reduce front pressure by 1 PSI
Move the seat back and raise it if possible
Raise the rear ride height
Add seat support stays or use a stiffer seat
Increase rear track
Reduce front track
Unfortunately it's trial and error with setup sometimes, too much rear grip can bring problems of it's own.
Most of which are impossible in a rental...You'd struggle to move your weight at all in a kart TBH.
OP, try the following -
Check tyre pressures and raise rear tyre pressure by 1 PSI and reduce front pressure by 1 PSI
Move the seat back and raise it if possible
Raise the rear ride height
Add seat support stays or use a stiffer seat
Increase rear track
Reduce front track
Unfortunately it's trial and error with setup sometimes, too much rear grip can bring problems of it's own.
Frustrating but I believe that tyres are often a key factor in rentals - get a good set and it's easy to dominate, a bad set and you're nowhere.
james_gt3rs said:
kiseca said:
This is the biggest factor in my experience. Even on tracks with lap times under 20 seconds, I can often make or lose a second a lap simply by swapping karts.
Racing driver excuses 101 
Also wanted to add as a suggestion, be very gentle with the steering. At Buckmore, there's one particular downhill right hand corner which, in the kart I was in when I was there, could be taken flat out, but only if very gentle with steering. If I turned in a little too aggressively, the back would slide out which caused two immediate problems. One was that I was now facing right and avoiding braking like my life depended on it, at a point when I should be braking for a tight left hander, and the second problem was an immediate need for new underwear. That section also happened to be the fastest part on the circuit, if I recall.
fido said:
Buckmore Park has a few hairpins, not to mention it's on the side of a hill.
OP what was your time .. 50s, 51s, 52s .. and how much do you weigh? The RT8 Sodi karts at BP seem very evenly matched - always get new tyres when i go.
Sorry didn't spot this . best time was 51.4, averaging 52.0, but at least three were lapping in the 50's. They were all young and I an 87Kg so not exactly a lightweight.OP what was your time .. 50s, 51s, 52s .. and how much do you weigh? The RT8 Sodi karts at BP seem very evenly matched - always get new tyres when i go.
Edited by fido on Friday 6th September 09:53
They were making ground on the straights which I think was due either to their light weight or better corner exiting speed than me. I was having to do a bit of correction coming out the curve, they weren't.
The Karts were a limiting factor because every lap the two corners at the end of the straight were taken without taking my foot off the throttle. The Karts weren't powerful enough to make the weight less relevant.
The seats were easily adjustable on the go. simply pull up the yellow cord when no on looking and let go to click it in. Not immediate feedback on laptimes when you are on the move so I wasn't sure what I was doing.
My thoughts were if I move the seat back I'm putting more weight over the rear wheels but also as the Kart cornered the rear wheels were having to hold my weight from moving sideways. More downward pressure but much more sideways force applied to the wheels.
If I moved the seat forward less weight on the rears. Less downforce on the rear tyres, but also load better spread between front and rear so less for the rear wheel grip to have to do.
I still can't work it out. What I do know is that there was a great deal more grip on the front to the rear. Not enough power to steer on the throttle, and not really enough power in the Kart for the circuit
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