Could former Porsche 911/ Cayman owners...
Discussion
Please comment on the build quality, fit & finish (exterior and interior) of an Alpine A110 compared to say a Porsche 997 gen 2 onwards? Or a Cayman from 2010 onwards. Especially after significant miles in a Alpine. As it's a Renault (basically), does it suffer over time with issues that German cars would not?
Ignore drive/ ride/ handling for now - I know the Alpine A110 is sublime.
Ignore drive/ ride/ handling for now - I know the Alpine A110 is sublime.
Alpine may be owned by Renault and of course the engine is Renault but to say the car is basically a Renault is too simplistic.
I cant specify an exact figure but Id say at least 80% of the parts that make up an Alpine A110 are specific to that car. The more I've looked round mine in terms of the way its put together the more quality engineering I've discovered. Its clear a lot of attention has gone into the design. Almost all parts, even the little brackets that hold the brake pipes, are stamped 'Alpine,' Its obvious they are keen that everyone knows it's an Alpine, not a Renault.
I would say overall build quality is pretty good and there is anecdotal evidence of cars ( although not many to be fair as a lot are kept as weekend toys, mine included ) covering high mileages with no major issues. I looked at the 718 Cayman and the Emira before choosing the Alpine. I felt the Emira was way off the Alpine in terms of quality, especially the paint, and it didn't strike me as having the depth of design integrity the Alpine has. The Porsche appeared to be beautifully put together and the interior materials ( with the exception of the seats which are superb in the Alpine ) were a level above both the Alpine and the Lotus.
I wouldn't discount the Alpine in terms of quality, if you look beyond a few cheap looking interior plastics, it's a quality product IMHO.
I cant specify an exact figure but Id say at least 80% of the parts that make up an Alpine A110 are specific to that car. The more I've looked round mine in terms of the way its put together the more quality engineering I've discovered. Its clear a lot of attention has gone into the design. Almost all parts, even the little brackets that hold the brake pipes, are stamped 'Alpine,' Its obvious they are keen that everyone knows it's an Alpine, not a Renault.
I would say overall build quality is pretty good and there is anecdotal evidence of cars ( although not many to be fair as a lot are kept as weekend toys, mine included ) covering high mileages with no major issues. I looked at the 718 Cayman and the Emira before choosing the Alpine. I felt the Emira was way off the Alpine in terms of quality, especially the paint, and it didn't strike me as having the depth of design integrity the Alpine has. The Porsche appeared to be beautifully put together and the interior materials ( with the exception of the seats which are superb in the Alpine ) were a level above both the Alpine and the Lotus.
I wouldn't discount the Alpine in terms of quality, if you look beyond a few cheap looking interior plastics, it's a quality product IMHO.
Before buying my brand new GT I had similar concerns and checked a lot. As you know the car is on the market since 2017. If there were common quality issues I'm sure we would be reading them here.
The Alpine brand couldn't be resurrected for a long time and it would be a hoist with one's own petard if they had major quality issues. Feel free to watch David Twohig's interviews to understand how they developed the car.
Full list of the criticism that I was a bit concerned and some solutions.
- The screen is so small (in this car the entertainment is not on the screen)
- Volume controller is the same with other Renault group cars (some after market parts are available and for me those buttons are so handy)
- Limited cargo capacity (that's true but still you can fit two carry-ons with detachable wheels to the frunk and a duffle bag to the boot)
- No cup holder (there are after market parts and I personally prefer not to have any drink other than water inside the cabin)
The Alpine brand couldn't be resurrected for a long time and it would be a hoist with one's own petard if they had major quality issues. Feel free to watch David Twohig's interviews to understand how they developed the car.
Full list of the criticism that I was a bit concerned and some solutions.
- The screen is so small (in this car the entertainment is not on the screen)
- Volume controller is the same with other Renault group cars (some after market parts are available and for me those buttons are so handy)
- Limited cargo capacity (that's true but still you can fit two carry-ons with detachable wheels to the frunk and a duffle bag to the boot)
- No cup holder (there are after market parts and I personally prefer not to have any drink other than water inside the cabin)
I drove a high-spec Cayman (2012 3.4 S PDK full leather Black Edition 987.2) from 2014 to 2019, and have now owned an A110S (microfibre interior, bucket seats, CF roof, etc) for a few months. I would say that the Alpine is comparable in interior fit/finish to the Porsche, then again given the engine characteristics and weight, I'm not sure the two cars are that similar. The Alpine is a lot smaller, lighter and more like a sportscar, whereas the Cayman is almost a luxury GT car in comparison. The Porsche is certainly a lot more versatile if that's what you're looking for.
When a 987.1 Cayman owner on the Porsche forum recently had the temerity to ask about buying an A110 instead of upgrading to a 987.2 or an early 997, one PH member whinged about alleged unreliability and stated that a 4 cylinder turbo DSG was hardly an enthusiast's[1] car, as though anything that wasn't at least six cylinder and with a manual transmission was some kind of Fisher Price toy.
I could have bought a 4 year old low-mileage Cayman GTS 4.0 (to have an equivalent power/weight ratio) for a similar budget, but having driven the Alpine that was the one I wanted. The Cayman is a lovely car in lots of ways, but the long gearing and 300kg of extra weight are very obvious once behind the wheel. Also I wanted to try something new (with full warranty!) instead of harking back to my past
Enjoy whatever you decide on.
[1] Thank God in the world of motorbikes, such unfounded snobbery doesn't exist about 1, 2, 3, or 4 cylinder bikes; each have their own specific characteristics. Personally I've been drawn to twins and triples for the past 40 years, but that doesn't make owners of other configurations any less "enthusiastic" about motorcycling.
When a 987.1 Cayman owner on the Porsche forum recently had the temerity to ask about buying an A110 instead of upgrading to a 987.2 or an early 997, one PH member whinged about alleged unreliability and stated that a 4 cylinder turbo DSG was hardly an enthusiast's[1] car, as though anything that wasn't at least six cylinder and with a manual transmission was some kind of Fisher Price toy.
I could have bought a 4 year old low-mileage Cayman GTS 4.0 (to have an equivalent power/weight ratio) for a similar budget, but having driven the Alpine that was the one I wanted. The Cayman is a lovely car in lots of ways, but the long gearing and 300kg of extra weight are very obvious once behind the wheel. Also I wanted to try something new (with full warranty!) instead of harking back to my past
Enjoy whatever you decide on.
[1] Thank God in the world of motorbikes, such unfounded snobbery doesn't exist about 1, 2, 3, or 4 cylinder bikes; each have their own specific characteristics. Personally I've been drawn to twins and triples for the past 40 years, but that doesn't make owners of other configurations any less "enthusiastic" about motorcycling.
I've had a 982 GT4 since 2020 and my wife's new A110 arrived last weekend.
Some parts of the A110's interior do feel a little more plasticy but this is where parts-bin bits have been integrated, for example the electric mirror switches and their surround. The climate controls aren't quite as nice as Porsche's but they're intuitive and absolutely fine.
The 982's infotainment screen is an old design, as is the A110's. The Porsche menus are prettier although tuning the radio in both is a pain (at least it's only done once) and carplay is wireless versus the 982's wired. The stereo controls on the column are from the ark (similar to my mother's car, 30 years ago) but intuitive and work. I think this section is a draw, overall.
Early days but I think the trimming of the seats (her car has adjustable Sabalts) and the cabin might be better than Porsche's. Only ergonomic annoyance is the placement of the heated seat switch but that's splitting hairs.
Dealership experience is a real differentiator. Porsche showrooms are shinier but the Alpine / Renault team had a warmth, knowledge and enthusiasm for the product that is leagues ahead.
Some parts of the A110's interior do feel a little more plasticy but this is where parts-bin bits have been integrated, for example the electric mirror switches and their surround. The climate controls aren't quite as nice as Porsche's but they're intuitive and absolutely fine.
The 982's infotainment screen is an old design, as is the A110's. The Porsche menus are prettier although tuning the radio in both is a pain (at least it's only done once) and carplay is wireless versus the 982's wired. The stereo controls on the column are from the ark (similar to my mother's car, 30 years ago) but intuitive and work. I think this section is a draw, overall.
Early days but I think the trimming of the seats (her car has adjustable Sabalts) and the cabin might be better than Porsche's. Only ergonomic annoyance is the placement of the heated seat switch but that's splitting hairs.
Dealership experience is a real differentiator. Porsche showrooms are shinier but the Alpine / Renault team had a warmth, knowledge and enthusiasm for the product that is leagues ahead.
I m with EJH here. I m on my fifth Porsche, the last three being two 981 Caymans and a 991. Now I have an A110 GT as well. The Alpine is different, the interior lower quality in places, but is on balance more fun to drive, even allowing for the lack of a clutch pedal. Its character is more accessible and it’s overall quieter on motorway journeys.
Edited by Maxym on Saturday 24th January 04:12
Thanks for all the advice and input. Much appreciated!
I’m torn as I would be selling a 911 to move to an A110, and the 911 (997 gen 2 PDK) is just so much more practical (but also a raw, ‘driver’s car’). I’m aware as to how great an A110 is so drive (primarily due to its lack of weight and suspension setup), but so many owners seem to have to keep tweaking the suspension to get it ‘just right’ and stable at higher speeds. The 911 is stable at 140mph on the Autobahn. Haven’t driven faster. I know the two cars aren’t strictly comparable, buts that’s my quandary.
The A110 would be a daily driver (almost) and not a weekend toy. We have an Audi Q5 for regular duties.
I’m torn as I would be selling a 911 to move to an A110, and the 911 (997 gen 2 PDK) is just so much more practical (but also a raw, ‘driver’s car’). I’m aware as to how great an A110 is so drive (primarily due to its lack of weight and suspension setup), but so many owners seem to have to keep tweaking the suspension to get it ‘just right’ and stable at higher speeds. The 911 is stable at 140mph on the Autobahn. Haven’t driven faster. I know the two cars aren’t strictly comparable, buts that’s my quandary.
The A110 would be a daily driver (almost) and not a weekend toy. We have an Audi Q5 for regular duties.
I can't give the sort of detail others have - but I've driven the A110 and own a 991.
The Porsche feels heavier, more substantial, very planted on the road and, in some ways, more evolved - very easy and comfortable for long distant cruising and fast twisty stuff. It's also pretty practical as it swallows luggage. The build quality is excellent.
The A110 is friskier, lots of fun, very grippy, felt extremely light in comparison - I had a blast driving it. It seemed the perfect Sunday car in lots of ways. As a daily? Not so sure - obviously people do.
The Porsche feels heavier, more substantial, very planted on the road and, in some ways, more evolved - very easy and comfortable for long distant cruising and fast twisty stuff. It's also pretty practical as it swallows luggage. The build quality is excellent.
The A110 is friskier, lots of fun, very grippy, felt extremely light in comparison - I had a blast driving it. It seemed the perfect Sunday car in lots of ways. As a daily? Not so sure - obviously people do.
I ran a 981 Cayman for 24,000 miles from new and an Alpine 110 Legende for 6,000 miles from new.
Leaving aside the driving dynamics as requested I'd break it down into 2 parts. Quality feel of the bits you see and touch and the engineering.
The first part the Porsche feels a better quality product with the interfaces more substantial and the tech better resolved. It also feels very solid on the road.
The Alpine is bespoke under the skin and feels a better resolved vehicle in terms of how it copes with UK daily driving. Its (much) quieter, rides miles better and doesn't feel its fighting compromise (no macpherson struts here) and is much more with you than carrying you. I'd say the pdk box is a bit more convincing than the Alpine DCT but not by much.
The other advantage an Alpine has is frugality, no Porsche tax and being light doesn't burn fuel and consumables as fast.
I wouldn't hesitate to have another but would ensure you have a dealer near enough to be convenient.
Leaving aside the driving dynamics as requested I'd break it down into 2 parts. Quality feel of the bits you see and touch and the engineering.
The first part the Porsche feels a better quality product with the interfaces more substantial and the tech better resolved. It also feels very solid on the road.
The Alpine is bespoke under the skin and feels a better resolved vehicle in terms of how it copes with UK daily driving. Its (much) quieter, rides miles better and doesn't feel its fighting compromise (no macpherson struts here) and is much more with you than carrying you. I'd say the pdk box is a bit more convincing than the Alpine DCT but not by much.
The other advantage an Alpine has is frugality, no Porsche tax and being light doesn't burn fuel and consumables as fast.
I wouldn't hesitate to have another but would ensure you have a dealer near enough to be convenient.
wax lyrical said:
... so many owners seem to have to keep tweaking the suspension to get it just right and stable at higher speeds. The 911 is stable at 140mph on the Autobahn. Haven t driven faster. I know the two cars aren t strictly comparable, buts that s my quandary. ..
I own base model A110 with stock suspension and factory geometry. I have no experience on 911 but the A110 is not an autobahn stormer and it's not on it's element in high speed autobahn driving. I'm from Finland so don't drive daily on autobahn but I've driven on autobahn with my A110 four years in a row at a maximum indicated speed of 250 km/h. It is a light car with short wheelbase which makes it a bit unstable on high speed autobahn driving.
I appreciate what Terminator X said and I believe that geo changes can make the A110 better on those conditions but it's strengths are definitely elsewhere.
I moved from a 991.2 Carrera to an A110GT. Owned the Porsche from new for 6 years, and enjoyed the car but not the most reliable or well put together one I've had - numerous warranty claims for cooling system valve issues, door paint bubbling, smell of petrol in cabin, moisture ingress, smoking turbo. The car (911 C2) is essentially a GT not a lightweight sports car so you need to be aware of mis-interpretation of build quality vs the lightweight aspect for the Alpine.
Yes, there are some Renault parts in there but overall build quality is comparable to the Porsche, in the context of this being a lightweight sports car. I've had no need to consider any changes to improve handling or high speed stability. The infotainment system can be a bit laggy on start up but runs reliably once up & running. I've no regrets moving to the Alpine from Porsche.
Yes, there are some Renault parts in there but overall build quality is comparable to the Porsche, in the context of this being a lightweight sports car. I've had no need to consider any changes to improve handling or high speed stability. The infotainment system can be a bit laggy on start up but runs reliably once up & running. I've no regrets moving to the Alpine from Porsche.
Edited by Hian on Sunday 25th January 10:02
Vertus said:
I moved from a 987.2 Cayman S that I loved dearly to an A110 Légende GT nearly a year ago. I think the build quality is good and on a par with the Cayman. It is more fun to drive overall too.
Significant comment there. 987.2 is same design philosophy and close on quality to a 997.2. My second Porsche was a 997.2 base Carrera, of which I have fond memories.OP, you currently have a 997.2…
Tangential to the OP's original question, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is rarity/exclusivity. Seeing another A110 on the road is a bit of an event, and parking/filling up the car often leads to 'Worrisitmate?' conversations. I have been surprised by the amount of interest that the car elicits.
I owned a 981 S Cayman before my PE A110. My A110 has not been that reliable - sufferiing Alternator failure (a common problem on early cars), ABS failure (dont know anyone else with that problem) and the paint bubbling by the wheelarches (common probem (now fixed?)
By contrast the paint (Alpine blue) is much more resistant to chips that the 981 - which was very poor in that respect. That apart the 981 was trouble free - but looking at others's experience not all Porsche's are that good.
As has been said the lack of Alpine dealers will be an issue for some. Had I had a local dealer then (which I have now) the problems I had would have less of a pain.
However, at the end of the day I wouldn't go back to a Cayman. The Cayman was an admirable car - the A110 is a lovable one and I cannot see any single car at any price that could replace it for me.
By contrast the paint (Alpine blue) is much more resistant to chips that the 981 - which was very poor in that respect. That apart the 981 was trouble free - but looking at others's experience not all Porsche's are that good.
As has been said the lack of Alpine dealers will be an issue for some. Had I had a local dealer then (which I have now) the problems I had would have less of a pain.
However, at the end of the day I wouldn't go back to a Cayman. The Cayman was an admirable car - the A110 is a lovable one and I cannot see any single car at any price that could replace it for me.
I currently have a 718 Spyder and a A110 S. I had a 997.2 GT3 before the Spyder. All sorts of other things over the years, but those are the comparatives you were after.
All are good, but with pluses and minuses. I don’t think about quality of materials and fit much; I guess the alpine is a touch lower quality than the Porsche in terms of materials, but not something I notice without thinking hard about it. The alpine interior, with buckets, microfibre and painted areas is good. I don’t miss the marginally better Spyder.
The alpine has been more reliable than the Spyder (engine mounts anyone?). Also, I have a deep dislike of the Porsche network and their desire to upsell me or replace parts that don’t need replacing; they place more emphasis on blingy showrooms and coffees than knowing about the cars or sensible customer advice. Granted alpine showrooms are a bit thin on the ground and you’re getting Renault service, but it’s largely fine.
I find myself taking the alpine out more than the Porsche. It’s a bit more usable and attracts less of the wrong attention, more of the ok attention (no attention would be preferred!). It rides more smoothly and is quite a joy to drive whereas the Spyder is more “locked down”; the alpine engine and ‘box is clearly less exciting, but the vibe is more flow, carrying speed and so on rather than noise. The alpine is like a grown-up, usable lotus - I mean that in a complimentary way and have owned an Elise S3 before.
The alpine is a lovely car. I’m not sure I’ve come across many folk who have regretted buying and trying one.
All are good, but with pluses and minuses. I don’t think about quality of materials and fit much; I guess the alpine is a touch lower quality than the Porsche in terms of materials, but not something I notice without thinking hard about it. The alpine interior, with buckets, microfibre and painted areas is good. I don’t miss the marginally better Spyder.
The alpine has been more reliable than the Spyder (engine mounts anyone?). Also, I have a deep dislike of the Porsche network and their desire to upsell me or replace parts that don’t need replacing; they place more emphasis on blingy showrooms and coffees than knowing about the cars or sensible customer advice. Granted alpine showrooms are a bit thin on the ground and you’re getting Renault service, but it’s largely fine.
I find myself taking the alpine out more than the Porsche. It’s a bit more usable and attracts less of the wrong attention, more of the ok attention (no attention would be preferred!). It rides more smoothly and is quite a joy to drive whereas the Spyder is more “locked down”; the alpine engine and ‘box is clearly less exciting, but the vibe is more flow, carrying speed and so on rather than noise. The alpine is like a grown-up, usable lotus - I mean that in a complimentary way and have owned an Elise S3 before.
The alpine is a lovely car. I’m not sure I’ve come across many folk who have regretted buying and trying one.
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