Is the A110 really a lightweight?
Discussion
A lot is made of the fact that our cars are lightweight, with all the advantages that brings, and in truth it is lighter than its' perceived rival the Cayman, however is it really a lightweight?
When you compare it with cars such as the MR2, GT86, RX7, 200SX, the old MGF and even the MGB GT it is par for the course. Sure it drives far better than those cars, however is it not down to better design than pure lack of weight, that every journo. majors on? I know that the quoted weight is 'wet' but surely, it isn't really a lightweight - the Mk1 Elise was 750kgs and my old Caterham 21 was 725kgs, these are truly lightweight cars.
I know that with all the crash impact crumple zone stuff, airbags and other systems it is more difficult for manufactures to get the weight down, and Alpine have done a wonderful job, but it is still not truly 'a lightweight', is it?
When you compare it with cars such as the MR2, GT86, RX7, 200SX, the old MGF and even the MGB GT it is par for the course. Sure it drives far better than those cars, however is it not down to better design than pure lack of weight, that every journo. majors on? I know that the quoted weight is 'wet' but surely, it isn't really a lightweight - the Mk1 Elise was 750kgs and my old Caterham 21 was 725kgs, these are truly lightweight cars.
I know that with all the crash impact crumple zone stuff, airbags and other systems it is more difficult for manufactures to get the weight down, and Alpine have done a wonderful job, but it is still not truly 'a lightweight', is it?
Edited by kitcat7 on Sunday 28th January 12:41
Everything is a compromise isn't it? I've only driven an Elise on a track and it was brilliant. Could I imagine driving across Europe, probably yes but would imagine the Alpine is much more comfortable but still fun.
Also, safety has made a massive impact here. How heavy are the last Elise models vs the original?
Not slating them, I think they're ace.
Also, safety has made a massive impact here. How heavy are the last Elise models vs the original?
Not slating them, I think they're ace.
You have to consider it in relative terms. No, compared to the cars you list from 20-30-40+ years ago 1100kg isn't remarkable, but none of those would come anywhere close to complying with current crash regs or having equipment that most people would consider standard today (i.e. air con, central locking, electric windows etc etc). Power makes a big difference too. Which of those listed have 250-300bhp out of the box?? That's 996 turbo levels of power to weight and performance.
kitcat7 said:
A lot is made of the fact that our cars are lightweight, with all the advantages that brings, and in truth it is lighter than its' perceived rival the Cayman, however is it really a lightweight?
When you compare it with cars such as the MR2, GT86, RX7, 200SX, the old MGF and even the MGB GT it is par for the course. Sure it drives far better than those cars, however is it not down to better design than pure lack of weight, that every journo. majors on? I know that the quoted weight is 'wet' but surely, it isn't really a lightweight - the Mk1 Elise was 750kgs and my old Caterham 21 was 725kgs, these are truly lightweight cars.
I know that with all the crash impact crumple zone stuff, airbags and other systems it is more difficult for manufactures to get the weight down, and Alpine have done a wonderful job, but it is still not truly 'a lightweight', is it?
Always suprises me it couldn't have been made lighter still especially being mainly aluminium construction which is like for like 40/50% lighter than steel incl. lightweight seats a alloy engine, thinner glass etc. All this weight saving must compensate for modern airbags, crumple zones etc. A Peugeot 205 1.9 GTI was only 860kgs in its day. When you compare it with cars such as the MR2, GT86, RX7, 200SX, the old MGF and even the MGB GT it is par for the course. Sure it drives far better than those cars, however is it not down to better design than pure lack of weight, that every journo. majors on? I know that the quoted weight is 'wet' but surely, it isn't really a lightweight - the Mk1 Elise was 750kgs and my old Caterham 21 was 725kgs, these are truly lightweight cars.
I know that with all the crash impact crumple zone stuff, airbags and other systems it is more difficult for manufactures to get the weight down, and Alpine have done a wonderful job, but it is still not truly 'a lightweight', is it?
Edited by kitcat7 on Sunday 28th January 12:41
Iceblue said:
Always suprises me it couldn't have been made lighter still especially being mainly aluminium construction which is like for like 40/50% lighter than steel incl. lightweight seats a alloy engine, thinner glass etc. All this weight saving must compensate for modern airbags, crumple zones etc. A Peugeot 205 1.9 GTI was only 860kgs in its day.
Have you been in a 205? I have thicker tin foil at the bottom of my ovenkitcat7 said:
A lot is made of the fact that our cars are lightweight, with all the advantages that brings, and in truth it is lighter than its' perceived rival the Cayman, however is it really a lightweight?
When you compare it with cars such as the MR2, GT86, RX7, 200SX, the old MGF and even the MGB GT it is par for the course. Sure it drives far better than those cars, however is it not down to better design than pure lack of weight, that every journo. majors on? I know that the quoted weight is 'wet' but surely, it isn't really a lightweight - the Mk1 Elise was 750kgs and my old Caterham 21 was 725kgs, these are truly lightweight cars.
I know that with all the crash impact crumple zone stuff, airbags and other systems it is more difficult for manufactures to get the weight down, and Alpine have done a wonderful job, but it is still not truly 'a lightweight', is it?
Always suprises me it couldn't have been made lighter still especially being mainly aluminium construction which is like for like 40/50% lighter than steel incl. lightweight seats a alloy engine, thinner glass etc. All this weight saving must compensate for modern airbags, crumple zones etc. A Peugeot 205 1.9 GTI was only 860kgs in its day. When you compare it with cars such as the MR2, GT86, RX7, 200SX, the old MGF and even the MGB GT it is par for the course. Sure it drives far better than those cars, however is it not down to better design than pure lack of weight, that every journo. majors on? I know that the quoted weight is 'wet' but surely, it isn't really a lightweight - the Mk1 Elise was 750kgs and my old Caterham 21 was 725kgs, these are truly lightweight cars.
I know that with all the crash impact crumple zone stuff, airbags and other systems it is more difficult for manufactures to get the weight down, and Alpine have done a wonderful job, but it is still not truly 'a lightweight', is it?
Edited by kitcat7 on Sunday 28th January 12:41
Of course it is lightweight. It's literally the lightest car in production at the moment.
The only car that comes par with it is the wonderful but tiny MX5, which is too small for many people and quite a bit behind in performance.
You cannot compare A110 to the old lotuses or alfa 4C, except on paper. They were really much closer to a track car or kit-car with huge compromises and not useable as normal car for most. A110 or MX5 have all the creature comfort you need, and if you don't need 4 seats, they're completely usable as a daily. 4C looks very close on paper, but sit in one and drive it, and you'll understand the difference between small production exotic and normal street car that looks exotic
GT86, YGR, boxster/cayman, RX7... they all weigh more (150kg) to a lot more (300kg). Especially when they're at similar performance levels.
There's literally no lightweight competitor with similar performance and daily usability,... not even mentioning the price.
What was produced in the last 20 years as a normal production car and <1200kg and 250hp+ HP?
The only car that comes par with it is the wonderful but tiny MX5, which is too small for many people and quite a bit behind in performance.
You cannot compare A110 to the old lotuses or alfa 4C, except on paper. They were really much closer to a track car or kit-car with huge compromises and not useable as normal car for most. A110 or MX5 have all the creature comfort you need, and if you don't need 4 seats, they're completely usable as a daily. 4C looks very close on paper, but sit in one and drive it, and you'll understand the difference between small production exotic and normal street car that looks exotic
GT86, YGR, boxster/cayman, RX7... they all weigh more (150kg) to a lot more (300kg). Especially when they're at similar performance levels.
There's literally no lightweight competitor with similar performance and daily usability,... not even mentioning the price.
What was produced in the last 20 years as a normal production car and <1200kg and 250hp+ HP?
With all due respect, most of you are missing the point. It is not that our car is lighter than anything else produced today, it is, but in absolute terms it is not light, the others are just heavier. We all know why. Yet much is made of its' lightness, but I'm thinking it feels light because of the weight distribution and suspension design.
By the way, my other car is modern, well at least only just out of production and weights the same, give or take a kg or two. and has only 25bhp less than the A110, yet doesn't feel anything like as light. It is a Morgan +4. Yes, yes I know when it was designed.............
By the way, my other car is modern, well at least only just out of production and weights the same, give or take a kg or two. and has only 25bhp less than the A110, yet doesn't feel anything like as light. It is a Morgan +4. Yes, yes I know when it was designed.............
when a new bmw m2 competition weighs over 2000kg and a new m3 CS weighs 1800kg you bet its a lightweight!!
Designing a contemporary car to be globally road legal using a platform shared with other car models absolutely requires a heavy weight today. I am sure bmw really wanted an m2 that weighed less than the last one, knowing it would be the main gripe from enthusiasts, but they failed completely. There was nothing they can do. Thats a tell. It is a miracle to get a car-car (with space inside, crash tested, quiet enough on freeways) down to 1100kg. The first cayman was 1340kg and it has got heavier since then. The only other way to make something lighter today is to go smaller, and lower power: mx5.
Designing a contemporary car to be globally road legal using a platform shared with other car models absolutely requires a heavy weight today. I am sure bmw really wanted an m2 that weighed less than the last one, knowing it would be the main gripe from enthusiasts, but they failed completely. There was nothing they can do. Thats a tell. It is a miracle to get a car-car (with space inside, crash tested, quiet enough on freeways) down to 1100kg. The first cayman was 1340kg and it has got heavier since then. The only other way to make something lighter today is to go smaller, and lower power: mx5.
heisthegaffer said:
LE62NDE said:
Has the A110 been crash tested? I understood that it hadn't.
Surely it must have been? LE62NDE said:
Has the A110 been crash tested? I understood that it hadn't.
It certainly has, it’s a legal requirement.I can’t remember where, but I seem to remember seeing a (sad!) picture of the cars used somewhere.
EDIT: It was on Facebook. Screenshot:
Edited by Whaleblue on Monday 29th January 08:04
Gassing Station | Alpine | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff