Road trip review - Mods needed.. thoughts/experience sought
Discussion
I'll start with a picture of the participants this year of this years pilgrimage to the Isle of Man. Having organised this trip for 5 years and attended for 10 years I am still allowed to attend despite no longer driving a Lotus, with "mon petite Lotus de Francais". Unfortunately one of the parties S1 Elise has an aversion to the Island and didn't make it out of their drive this year, hence the Mazda.
Anyway, having done this trip in both an Evora NA and an Evora 400 plus an Alfa Giulia Veloce and Mini F56 JCW I have a pretty good benchmark as to the roads and how a car feels on them.
Firstly, I'll say that in the wet the soft suspension of the Alpine is great, so much so that I used the Cronk-y-Voddy straight to make my way to the front and then disappeared into the distance to have a play on the backroads on my own. I really enjoyed playing in the wet conditions and it's something I've always been cautious of in my various Lotus.
The soft suspension also makes light work of the less than perfect road surfaces and the compactness of the car makes it a joy on single lane roads.... but.....
The mountain road, one of my favourites, I barely used. The higher speed cornering I found accompanied by a pitching of the car that was quite disconcerting. I just didn't have the confidence in the car on these higher speed bends at anything like the speed that the Evoras, (or the Alfa/Mini for that matter) were quite comfortable at . It's not a lack of traction, but the feel of the car pitching so heavily. Was thinking that perhaps the Life 110 Anti roll bar upgrade would help, but the question is, has anyone done this without the Life 110 suspension and if so does it help at all?
That said, the other thing I found was stability at high speeds on less than perfect surfaces and I'm sure the full suspension upgrade would help here too. The car already has the standard life 110 Geo setting on it, but it gets very "up on it's toes" at speed. From reading various other reviews this seems to be something that can be helped massively with the Life 110 splitter and spoiler here, but some questions I can't find answers to:
- Does the lip spoiler suffice to help here. Seems very modest to provide much assistance. Is the wing a better option?
- I prefer the factory style wing to the Life 110 version. It's a little more discrete. Can these be sourced?
- Do the sills provide any functional benefit?
Is there anybody in Surrey/Hampshire with any of these upgrades, who'd be happy to show them/share thoughts?
Before I get a raft of "you should have bought an S", that would have given me a different issue, not least because I had to have the Comfort seats as the fixed buckets are too high for me and too low for my wife.
Would appreciate peoples experiences.
Anyway, having done this trip in both an Evora NA and an Evora 400 plus an Alfa Giulia Veloce and Mini F56 JCW I have a pretty good benchmark as to the roads and how a car feels on them.
Firstly, I'll say that in the wet the soft suspension of the Alpine is great, so much so that I used the Cronk-y-Voddy straight to make my way to the front and then disappeared into the distance to have a play on the backroads on my own. I really enjoyed playing in the wet conditions and it's something I've always been cautious of in my various Lotus.
The soft suspension also makes light work of the less than perfect road surfaces and the compactness of the car makes it a joy on single lane roads.... but.....
The mountain road, one of my favourites, I barely used. The higher speed cornering I found accompanied by a pitching of the car that was quite disconcerting. I just didn't have the confidence in the car on these higher speed bends at anything like the speed that the Evoras, (or the Alfa/Mini for that matter) were quite comfortable at . It's not a lack of traction, but the feel of the car pitching so heavily. Was thinking that perhaps the Life 110 Anti roll bar upgrade would help, but the question is, has anyone done this without the Life 110 suspension and if so does it help at all?
That said, the other thing I found was stability at high speeds on less than perfect surfaces and I'm sure the full suspension upgrade would help here too. The car already has the standard life 110 Geo setting on it, but it gets very "up on it's toes" at speed. From reading various other reviews this seems to be something that can be helped massively with the Life 110 splitter and spoiler here, but some questions I can't find answers to:
- Does the lip spoiler suffice to help here. Seems very modest to provide much assistance. Is the wing a better option?
- I prefer the factory style wing to the Life 110 version. It's a little more discrete. Can these be sourced?
- Do the sills provide any functional benefit?
Is there anybody in Surrey/Hampshire with any of these upgrades, who'd be happy to show them/share thoughts?
Before I get a raft of "you should have bought an S", that would have given me a different issue, not least because I had to have the Comfort seats as the fixed buckets are too high for me and too low for my wife.
Would appreciate peoples experiences.
Colin P said:
The mountain road, one of my favourites, I barely used. The higher speed cornering I found accompanied by a pitching of the car that was quite disconcerting. I just didn't have the confidence in the car on these higher speed bends at anything like the speed that the Evoras, (or the Alfa/Mini for that matter) were quite comfortable at . It's not a lack of traction, but the feel of the car pitching so heavily. Was thinking that perhaps the Life 110 Anti roll bar upgrade would help, but the question is, has anyone done this without the Life 110 suspension and if so does it help at all?
Do you mean pitch? or roll? Or a diagonal combination of the two?
Some general thoughts:
- At the risk of not answering the question, having a lot of pitch/roll doesn't necessarily limit the car's cornering ability. Have you had a chance to take your car on track yet? You may find that if you can get used to e.g. transitioning left-right at high speed in a safe environment (eg the sweepers towards the end of the lap at Blyton Park) and feeling the car pitch and roll but hang on, then you'll feel more relaxed about letting the car move around on its suspension on the road too. Unlike those primitive German cars, the Alpine with its double wishbones can keep its tyres optimally aligned vis a vis the tarmac even when the body is leaning over.
- a higher rate anti-roll bar will reduce roll (obviously), it won't change the pitch. I think as a general rule there's a reasonable scope for making independent upgrades to ARBs without changing springs or dampers. The trade-off is a loss of single-wheel bump absorption if you go too far.
- I think very often it's the rate of pitch/roll which upsets the car and/or the driver, rather than the absolute angle reached. It is possible that some kind of damper upgrade (higher quality, not just higher rate) would give you the feeling of stability/confidence you seek without losing the wet-weather / bumpy road ability of the stock setup.
If I were you I'd be looking towards the Life110 dampers, perhaps adding ARBs and springs depending on your appetite to shift the compromise towards slightly smoother roads. Hopefully someone with actual experience of those can chime in. I don't know if David Pook can give you a demo of his car on road or track so you can feel what the full Life setup is like at speed.
- At the risk of not answering the question, having a lot of pitch/roll doesn't necessarily limit the car's cornering ability. Have you had a chance to take your car on track yet? You may find that if you can get used to e.g. transitioning left-right at high speed in a safe environment (eg the sweepers towards the end of the lap at Blyton Park) and feeling the car pitch and roll but hang on, then you'll feel more relaxed about letting the car move around on its suspension on the road too. Unlike those primitive German cars, the Alpine with its double wishbones can keep its tyres optimally aligned vis a vis the tarmac even when the body is leaning over.
- a higher rate anti-roll bar will reduce roll (obviously), it won't change the pitch. I think as a general rule there's a reasonable scope for making independent upgrades to ARBs without changing springs or dampers. The trade-off is a loss of single-wheel bump absorption if you go too far.
- I think very often it's the rate of pitch/roll which upsets the car and/or the driver, rather than the absolute angle reached. It is possible that some kind of damper upgrade (higher quality, not just higher rate) would give you the feeling of stability/confidence you seek without losing the wet-weather / bumpy road ability of the stock setup.
If I were you I'd be looking towards the Life110 dampers, perhaps adding ARBs and springs depending on your appetite to shift the compromise towards slightly smoother roads. Hopefully someone with actual experience of those can chime in. I don't know if David Pook can give you a demo of his car on road or track so you can feel what the full Life setup is like at speed.
Colin P said:
The mountain road, one of my favourites, I barely used. The higher speed cornering I found accompanied by a pitching of the car that was quite disconcerting. I just didn't have the confidence in the car on these higher speed bends at anything like the speed that the Evoras, (or the Alfa/Mini for that matter) were quite comfortable at . It's not a lack of traction, but the feel of the car pitching so heavily. Was thinking that perhaps the Life 110 Anti roll bar upgrade would help, but the question is, has anyone done this without the Life 110 suspension and if so does it help at all?
You've described *exactly* what Evo magazine have stated in several A110 road tests. That is while the standard car has a lovely ride due to soft springs, the flip side of this is that body control can get a bit wayward when driving hard on a rapidly undulating road, and also that quick direction changes can result in roll oversteer (see failed A110 elk test on youtube). If you want to address this for your driving preferences then I suspect a higher spring rate is the only solution.I fitted the Life110 springs to my car - the difference in ride comfort was negligible but the car did have more control. However, during a track day at Oulton I did experience the sort of issue you're describing on one particular bend and didn't feel 100% confident - more with myself than the car if I'm being honest! Anyway, I ended up fitting the S ARBs and that issue has completely gone but the trade off is that it is stiffer on the road. In fact, I'd say the S ARBs affected the ride more than the Life110 springs. If I didn't track my car I'd probably either just fit the springs or go for a damper upgrade - I don't think I'd fit the ARBs to a road-only car.
Simon Owen said:
Careful choice of springs & damper changes will remove these attributes, don’t lower & stick to stock ARB’s would also be my advice. No need to go super hard so you can maintain some, but not all of the ride quality of the base car.
Evo said:
David Pook ... has bought some S anti-roll bars (which he describes as ‘flipping enormous’) and tried them on his car, but he dislikes the lateral kickback over poor surfaces and the understeer they bring
https://www.evo.co.uk/sports-cars/204719/porsche-c...(The ARBs listed on the Life110 site are the factory A110S parts i.e. those described above)
https://life110.co.uk/collections/alpine-a110-tuni...
The Life110 dampers appear compatible with both standard and their upgraded springs, and have height adjustment so you can run standard springs at standard height, or with the Life springs with as little as 5mm lowering.
There are other damper upgrades available for the A110 too.
springfan62 said:
I have a set of Life110 dampers here awaiting fitting, I am keeping the original springs as I like the compliance.
However I have noticed that in certain conditions the car can feel a bit unsteady. I am hoping this upgrade will deliver greater control without making the ride firmer.
I'd love to get your feedback when this has been done.However I have noticed that in certain conditions the car can feel a bit unsteady. I am hoping this upgrade will deliver greater control without making the ride firmer.
Thanks everyone else for thoughts so far, certainly seems to ratify my thoughts about the handling and helps with formulating a plan of attack.
Olivera said:
You've described *exactly* what Evo magazine have stated in several A110 road tests. That is while the standard car has a lovely ride due to soft springs, the flip side of this is that body control can get a bit wayward when driving hard on a rapidly undulating road, and also that quick direction changes can result in roll oversteer (see failed A110 elk test on youtube). If you want to address this for your driving preferences then I suspect a higher spring rate is the only solution.
That “failed elk test” was not an elk test and was discredited at the time.There’s no braking at the start of an elk test.
That “test” involved harsh braking to unsettle the rear before the supposed elk test.
I found exactly the same thing with "spirited" driving on an undulating curvy B road. Very disconcerting when I first experienced it. Doesn't happen often but want to address it sometime without compromising the ride of my standard A110. Suspect some combination of Life110 options is the answer. Need to research it more.
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