Did you consider a Cayman?

[italian job]

I love the A110, I’ve driven a couple and was seriously looking to buy a second hand one but wobbled specifically because the ones I looked at were suffering with the corrosion on the rear quarter, so went a bit left field and bought a GR Yaris. I’m getting to the itchy feet stage again, still love the A110 but can see that the 2.5. 718 Caymans fall within the same budget. They open up the possibility of a manual and a little more practicality, I’ve not driven one so can’t comment on the driving experience but wondered if anyone genuinely considered one when looking and why you chose your A110 above the Cayman?

[Whaleblue]

If you’re talking base A110 the 2.0 718 is closer to the price bracket. The 2.5 is A110S category.

I got close to buying a 718 Cayman when they first appeared. Comparing the two engine sizes I felt the 2.5 was the better choice, but either way didn’t gel with the 4 pot Porsche experience. They were still selling the last of the 981 flat 6s at the time, and driving back to back the older model just felt more “right”. I ended up cancelling my 718 order, and ended up with a 987.2 S. On the road that 987 was impressive, but ultimately not much fun. It felt too capable, and being vaguely sensible/responsible I felt I was using less than 50% of what it was capable of. The same was true on the (multiple) test drives I had of the 718.

Coming to the Alpine I felt that the base model was the sweet spot. It’s as quick as that larger engined 718, but that’s due to its lightness (obviously!), and it’s that lightness, combined with very carefully selected gear ratios, that makes every aspect of driving the Alpine fun.

To be honest, after I sold the 987.2 I said to myself I was done with sports cars as I was obviously too old to enjoy them. Then I drove an A110 at Thruxton, and now have my own tucked away in the garage waiting for today’s run-in mileage trip…

EDIT - I’m a fan of modern double clutch autos, so the lack of a manual Alpine option was of no consequence to me. If that’s something you personally really prefer it may sway things. Either way, test drive them back to back and I suspect the real world experiences will push you towards France.

Edited by Whaleblue on Saturday 3rd June 09:07

Edited by Whaleblue on Saturday 3rd June 09:09

[bcr5784]

italian job said:

I love the A110, I’ve driven a couple and was seriously looking to buy a second hand one but wobbled specifically because the ones I looked at were suffering with the corrosion on the rear quarter, so went a bit left field and bought a GR Yaris. I’m getting to the itchy feet stage again, still love the A110 but can see that the 2.5. 718 Caymans fall within the same budget. They open up the possibility of a manual and a little more practicality, I’ve not driven one so can’t comment on the driving experience but wondered if anyone genuinely considered one when looking and why you chose your A110 above the Cayman?

I owned a 981S (6 cylinder) Cayman for 4 years before and have driven a 718 (2.0) . Not sure if the 2.5 is any better -but I thought the 2.0 engine dire. Lag intrudes in a way that it simply doesn't on the A110, exacerbated by the long gearing (manual particularly) of the Porsche. The 718 engine sounds (by pretty much common consent) unpleasant. I'm not going to say the A110 has a "great" engine - but it is (to my ears) thoroughly pleasant in Normal - but perhaps a bit too boy-racer for some in Sport with the sports exhaust. The A110 engine is not, by some margin however, as nice sounding the 6 in the 981 -but far more flexible and, by contrast, has a great set of gear ratios.

All that said, the ultimate reason for choosing and preferring the A110 over the Cayman is FUN. The A110 is just very involving and great fun at sensible road speeds, whereas the Cayman only comes alive when you are going faster than is sensible. It's a criticism I might make of the GR Yaris too.

Another reason for choosing the A110 over the Cayman (or Yaris) is refinement. Caymans suffer from serious tyre roar issues on many of the surfaces you find in the UK - making a decent sound system a waste of time. Not so the A110. While you are right the Cayman has more luggage space (and more conveniently arranged) I don't think it makes the car a better all-rounder than the A110.

I am surprised that second hand cars have paint issues - yes there have been problems, but I would have expected them all to be fixed under warranty - even beyond the overall 3 year period. A dealer who hasn't done that is, I would argue, one to avoid.

Would I go back to a Cayman? No chance.

[italian job]

Thank you both for taking the time to respond, some really interesting points raised, I do agree with the GR, on track its great fun but a bit aloof on the road for the majority of the time unless its being driven hard, which isn’t possible very often. The long gearing of the Porsches is interesting, I’ve read that that is the case. Ultimately, what ever I choose isn’t a daily driver so doesn’t need to be the last word in practicality but does need to be fun.

[biggles330d]

I seriously considered a 718, but if I'm brutally honest, it was as simple as that was the obvious and 'safe' choice. No doubt a great car in its own right, but they are everywhere and I couldn't see past them not actually being very 'special' and given the volume, just a cash machine product for Porsche. Whereas the A110 had numerous USPs and although as expensive and superficially less 'premium', it was clear that the money had been invested in some very smart engineering into the core and base product. I think you get 95% of the essence of an A110 from the base product, whereas to get this from a Cayman it comes from the trinkets you option with it, and Porsche know very well thats where their margins are. Not a moments regret from running my base A110. Not sure that many people would stop me for a chat about a boggo 2.0 718... A GT4 perhaps, but thats a very different animal.

[xondat]

I considered the 4cyl 718 to begin with but found the engine utterly boring. Yes the power delivery is good, but sound & emotion is a big thing for me, which I feel it completely lacks.

Then Porsche announced the GTS 4.0, and I thought great! Already love the looks of the 718, interior makes sense, the car itself is fairly practical. Ended up putting a deposit down but it never truly felt correct, not sure why.

The A110 was one of the first cars I test drove whilst on the hunt and the experience just stuck with me. The engine isn't the most sonorous but it's definitely exciting to me. The rareness & quirky looks were definitely part of the overall appeal. Handling & lightweightness also stuck with me. The one drawback was really wanting a manual gearbox, but I found the paddles being on the column (rather than the wheel) to be quite interactive.

I also at one point had a deposit on the GR Yaris, it felt like the very logical choice, but I was never 100% on board with it.

In the end it took a very special spec of A110 to make me end my 18+ month search for the next car, and looking back I'm very happy I went with the A110.

[Sporky]

Not really, no. I think the Cayman is quite handsome, but I've never done the default choice. I tried a Morgan Roadster (ace but rubbish), an Evora (ace), and the the Alpine, and the Alpine was so good I stopped trying things and bought one.

[worldwidewebs]

I've had a 987 Cayman R. Also 996C4, 997C2S, 991T, 986 Boxster and 986 Boxster S. I also have a 2023 Macan GTS, so I could probably call myself a 'Porsche guy'. All were great cars (some better than others, mind) but the later the model the more 'normal' they are - just little-to-no excitement at all. The Alpine is fun all the time and it's light weight and sensible gearing really shine. The only real disappointment is that they won't be made for much longer, so grab one while you can!

[Rob_RCF]

Yes I did consider it a bit, mainly because I wanted to drive the A110's competition for peace of mind before pulling the trigger. I visited a couple of Porsche dealerships and although they were swanky and the cars looked lovely there were never any cars available for test drives and I didn't find the customer experience that good. They seemed short staffed, they never had cars available or if they did they were being imminently sold. Waiting lists were 1 year. Even the complimentary coffee they gave me in a Porsche branded cup was terribly bitter.

I did sit in a few Caymans, mostly used GT4's they had sitting around the showroom. They were nice, but not as good as I expected. There were some ergonomics problems, like every time I got out I somehow managed to smack my leg on something, and I didn't particularly like any of the seats. Oh but the most off-putting thing was the (used) alcantara steering wheels which heavily reinforced my preference for leather.

I just came away with this overbearing impression that it was a terrible time to buy a Porsche as they were apparently so much in demand. At the Alpine dealerships I visited there were no such problems, I got attentive service, as many test drives as I wanted, and just felt better about the whole experience.

I'd still love to drive a Cayman or a 911 (I've never driven any Porsche), but I kind of knew from the beginning I wanted the Alpine more. Largely because of the weight and the uniqueness, but the thing that sold me the most was probably the gearing. The Porsches have the same problem as my Lexus RCF which is very long gearing, meaning second gear is enough to take you beyond the national speed limit and just doesn't match well with most UK roads. The A110 must have the shortest gearing of any car I've driven and this is so fun as it means you can actually rev the engine out and bang through a few gears at more reasonable speeds.

[RikkertBiemans]

Coming from a cayman 987 (first generation) I wanted to upgrade to a 981 (second generation, still with flat6). But the market for used 981 seems to be either very basic cars or really overpriced cars. As an alternative i was also looking at a used 718T with buckets and a really nice spec.
But in the end i was curious to drive something else.

My resume so far: the wonky suspension of the pure makes it unnecessary slower than a cayman on a handling course/track. I also needed some adjustment to gain trust in the slippery rear which took some time. The general buying and service experience so far is much worse than with porsche (germany, Stuttgart region) and i hate that there’s almost no street legal accessories (wheels, spoilers, etc) available for the alpine.
On the plus side, everybody seems to like the alpine and it doesn’t have the snobby porsche image and has better fuel economy and cheaper tires. Once you get used to the slippery feel it is also very fun to ride.

Would i decide again for the alpine? Probably 50/50, depending on whats on the market next time i am looking for a new ride.

Edited by RikkertBiemans on Sunday 4th June 07:54

[italian job]

Genuinely appreciative of the detailed replies, thanks for taking the time, some really inciteful comments, it’s good to hear that fun has been mentioned more than once as that’s exactly what I’m after. Interesting and incouraging that people who have owned Porsches speak so highly of the A110.

[Terminator X]

I'd just chip in and say the other good thing is exclusivity; you rarely see an Alpine on the road other than at meets. I saw one yesterday on some back roads and it's the first I have seen for probably 6 months.

TX.

[Venisonpie]

I'd concur with what folk are saying having owned an Alpine and a 981 Cayman.

The three key things for me were the gearing, low speed engagement and refinement all of which make the Alpine superior to a Cayman.

[RikkertBiemans]

Tbh i dont get why people highlight „low speed engagement“. Before buying, when i read about the Alpine this was also mentioned quite often and I was looking forward to it. Within the speed limit the Alpine is as boring to drive as any other car imho.
I find older cars with non-electric steering and louder cabin noise much more engaging. The A110 is so modern to drive it just feels like if you had a lightweight Golf R or so. Nowhere near the drama a Elise or any older car delivers within lower speeds.
(I still love my Alpine, just wanted to mention this because i read it so often…).

[Rob_RCF]

RikkertBiemans said:

Tbh i dont get why people highlight „low speed engagement“. Before buying, when i read about the Alpine this was also mentioned quite often and I was looking forward to it. Within the speed limit the Alpine is as boring to drive as any other car imho.
I find older cars with non-electric steering and louder cabin noise much more engaging. The A110 is so modern to drive it just feels like if you had a lightweight Golf R or so. Nowhere near the drama a Elise or any older car delivers within lower speeds.
(I still love my Alpine, just wanted to mention this because i read it so often…).

Here's my perspective as a Lexus RCF owner. The RCF can feel a bit like a one gear car - you put your foot down in second and it takes you all the way to 75mph before you need to shift. Because it's naturally aspirated it doesn't feel that quick low down in the rev range, so from 10 or 20mph it always feels sluggish and only really gets going at around 40mph. Of course this can be solved by downshifting, but first gear is so short compared to second and it can be a bit of a handful particularly in the wet.

Compared to this the Alpine is a revelation - you just stomp your foot down at any speed, it finds the gear and just goes, wet, dry, it doesn't matter. That weight over the rear wheels while still being an overall light car does wonders for traction.

[iKenndac]

I cross-shopped with a 4cyl 718 Cayman, and drove that and the A110 back-to-back on the same day on the same route around some country roads I'm familiar with.

In the 718, my wife and I were talking about how impressively smooth the gearbox was, how surprisingly quiet the interior was (I was used to an MX-5 at the time, *anything* is quiet compared to that to be fair), etc.

In the A110, we were giggling and looking for fun corners to play on - then turning around and doing them again when we found a particularly good one.

The contrast between the two cars on the same roads pretty much sealed the deal for me — the 718 was very impressive and very grown-up, and the A110 was a decent chunk more childish. Spreadsheets and technical prowess went out the window that day, and my heart won out.

[PhilipIbrahim]

I did not consider a Cayman. I really bought into the whole A110 project, with its focus on keeping weight down. It got to a point where nothing else would do and so it was almost irrelevant whether a Cayman was better or not so I didn't even look at them. I still have no idea how a Cayman drives and I'm not interested. Even though I bought into all the marketing and motoring journalism hype about the A110 it has not even slightly disappointed; I love it.

[OscarP]

iKenndac said:

I cross-shopped with a 4cyl 718 Cayman, and drove that and the A110 back-to-back on the same day on the same route around some country roads I'm familiar with.

In the 718, my wife and I were talking about how impressively smooth the gearbox was, how surprisingly quiet the interior was (I was used to an MX-5 at the time, *anything* is quiet compared to that to be fair), etc.

In the A110, we were giggling and looking for fun corners to play on - then turning around and doing them again when we found a particularly good one.

The contrast between the two cars on the same roads pretty much sealed the deal for me — the 718 was very impressive and very grown-up, and the A110 was a decent chunk more childish. Spreadsheets and technical prowess went out the window that day, and my heart won out.

....What he said...my son convinced me by shouting he was going to pee himself between giggling as we test drove on the lanes around Winchester.... and the gear ratio thing ... makes a huge difference

Friend had a GT4 which was an awesome machine but just too good for UK roads and speed limits - the other thing I didn't expect was the size. The Alpine is at its best on windy b roads / country lanes - and I love that you don't feel like you have to breathe in when someone comes the other way on a tight lane.

[Hoofty]

PhilipIbrahim said:

I did not consider a Cayman. I really bought into the whole A110 project, with its focus on keeping weight down. It got to a point where nothing else would do and so it was almost irrelevant whether a Cayman was better or not so I didn't even look at them.
...
...Even though I bought into all the marketing and motoring journalism hype about the A110 it has not even slightly disappointed; I love it.

I was going to say I did, but on reflection my approach was almost exactly the same as Philip's - I was (and remain) completely predisposed to the brand ethos and the product; no doubt informed by formative years spent d*cking about in French hatchbacks.

I had driven a 4 pot Cayman previously and did price up a 4.0 Boxster as a sense-check. Tempting though it was, my config came out £15k more than the A110, with the added spectre of P-Car running costs - but worst of all, having deleted the GTS badges, I imagined that you could probably park it in a station without much worry. Some days that'd be a neat trick, but not the day I might hand over circa 75k for a fun car.

Nick

[italian job]

Again, thank you very much for the replies, I love the enthusiasm that’s conveyed for the car, I do completely understand being totally on board with the light weight ethos after previously owning an Elise and an Exige, it’s one of the things that attracts me to the A110.