Discussion
Sorry, this topic drives me crazy, so i would like to hear your opinions on this.
I just bought my MY22 base A110 in October last year. So i did not have the chance to drive with summer tires, but i don’t think it’s a tire issue anyways.
In all the reviews the Alpine is described as very active and easy to drift. So to get a better feeling for the car i booked a small driver safery training 2 months ago. Especially on the wet roundabout where we could try drifting i was totally bummed by how the car handled. It was really hard to get into oversteer, and once it came sideways it didn’t take throttle anymore (track mode, esp off). Very much like in the YouTube video where the stigmtries to drift a A110y
Also i couldn’t do the „moose test“ any faster then the other cars (i.e. a GLC coupe).
Another thing is that when blasting on country roads i notice massive understeer in faster corners. In these situations the car turns in perfectly when i apply the brakes, but it doesn’t feel good or safe. It bothers me especially since my old 987 cayman with kw v1 coilovers would handle these corners with ease.
In general i also feel that the steering around 12“ is very numb and nowhere near as responsive as in my old car.
So long story short: is that amount of understeer normal?
I have already booked in an appointment to get the life110 fast road geo locked in, but i was wondering whether i should have high hopes for that or if i maybe have wrong expectations?
I just bought my MY22 base A110 in October last year. So i did not have the chance to drive with summer tires, but i don’t think it’s a tire issue anyways.
In all the reviews the Alpine is described as very active and easy to drift. So to get a better feeling for the car i booked a small driver safery training 2 months ago. Especially on the wet roundabout where we could try drifting i was totally bummed by how the car handled. It was really hard to get into oversteer, and once it came sideways it didn’t take throttle anymore (track mode, esp off). Very much like in the YouTube video where the stigmtries to drift a A110y
Also i couldn’t do the „moose test“ any faster then the other cars (i.e. a GLC coupe).
Another thing is that when blasting on country roads i notice massive understeer in faster corners. In these situations the car turns in perfectly when i apply the brakes, but it doesn’t feel good or safe. It bothers me especially since my old 987 cayman with kw v1 coilovers would handle these corners with ease.
In general i also feel that the steering around 12“ is very numb and nowhere near as responsive as in my old car.
So long story short: is that amount of understeer normal?
I have already booked in an appointment to get the life110 fast road geo locked in, but i was wondering whether i should have high hopes for that or if i maybe have wrong expectations?
I have had my car just over a couple of months now and I have only been able to put almost 400 miles on the clock but in that time I have noticed some understeer. I do wonder whether it was due to the cold and wet conditions but it is still not quite the cornering behaviour I expected or desired. I intend to get the LIFE110 geo settings applied as soon as I can make the time.
Sounds like your car geometry is way out.
Get it checked over at an alignment specialist.
Personally not sure I want a road car that drifts, prefer a more neutral drive.
The car should normally be set with toe out, so turn in on corners is quite quick. If you want higher speed stability in corners go for toe in. I tend to brake before accelerating through a corner and the standard set up is great for that.
Also, do check tyre pressures, the car is sensitive to that, it took me some time to get it as I wanted and eliminated some of the high speed twitch that you can get.
Get it checked over at an alignment specialist.
Personally not sure I want a road car that drifts, prefer a more neutral drive.
The car should normally be set with toe out, so turn in on corners is quite quick. If you want higher speed stability in corners go for toe in. I tend to brake before accelerating through a corner and the standard set up is great for that.
Also, do check tyre pressures, the car is sensitive to that, it took me some time to get it as I wanted and eliminated some of the high speed twitch that you can get.
the car can definitely slide around corners there are plenty of videos illustrating that including ice driving.
On a wet skid pan it is much harder to hang the tail out I have no doubt a pro can do it but I found power on just pushes as the weight goes to the rear and it grips. So then you need a flick, but you have dct, turbo torque and a redline to juggle plus finding the paddles with lots of steering input.
Any front engine rear drive sedan has no such issue on a wet skid pan.
On a wet skid pan it is much harder to hang the tail out I have no doubt a pro can do it but I found power on just pushes as the weight goes to the rear and it grips. So then you need a flick, but you have dct, turbo torque and a redline to juggle plus finding the paddles with lots of steering input.
Any front engine rear drive sedan has no such issue on a wet skid pan.
You need a decent instructor. I am not really a fan of the Alpine, but I wouldn’t say it is the reason you can’t drift it around a wet circle.
If you go back to that circle again, test at what speed the car starts to go into deep understeer on a steady throttle and only try to induce oversteer at speeds UNDER that speed.
If you go back to that circle again, test at what speed the car starts to go into deep understeer on a steady throttle and only try to induce oversteer at speeds UNDER that speed.
Sorry, the skidpad was just one example where it occured to me. The problem there was more that esp would totally prohibit any throttle to keep it sliding.
The major problem I have that i already had two situations on a country road where i thought „ok, thank god i am insured“. Both could be resolved by i slight tip on the brakes, but i am afraid that at some point i wont be able to catch it. Now you could say „Rikkert, you
, just go slower!“, but when i step up from a 25k 987 cayman to a 68k Alpine I expect it to be comparable at least.
I have an appointment for the geo in two weeks and i am curious to see what the current settings are. If they are far off from the factory settings, i will just get them corrected. If its in factory spec i will give the life110 settings a shot.
The major problem I have that i already had two situations on a country road where i thought „ok, thank god i am insured“. Both could be resolved by i slight tip on the brakes, but i am afraid that at some point i wont be able to catch it. Now you could say „Rikkert, you
, just go slower!“, but when i step up from a 25k 987 cayman to a 68k Alpine I expect it to be comparable at least.I have an appointment for the geo in two weeks and i am curious to see what the current settings are. If they are far off from the factory settings, i will just get them corrected. If its in factory spec i will give the life110 settings a shot.
A geometry change (e.g. LIFE ) might well improve things.
Unfortunately the standard A110 suspension setup, while praised for good ride quality, has also been reported by various reviewers as 'sloppy' when pushed to extremes. See the failed ELK test here by a Spanish reviewer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdsXUB0z-Pc&t=... you can visibly see the rear of the car has too much roll.
Unfortunately the standard A110 suspension setup, while praised for good ride quality, has also been reported by various reviewers as 'sloppy' when pushed to extremes. See the failed ELK test here by a Spanish reviewer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdsXUB0z-Pc&t=... you can visibly see the rear of the car has too much roll.
No, i explicitly chose the A110 over a used 718T because I wanted exactly what i saw and read in the reviews (something more playful then the porsche).
Unfortunately my car handles more like a Golf R or so, but not really like I expected it from a mid engine car. Guess i‘ll have to wait for the geo correction/change until my final verdict.
Unfortunately my car handles more like a Golf R or so, but not really like I expected it from a mid engine car. Guess i‘ll have to wait for the geo correction/change until my final verdict.
The video olivera posted could be exactly my car and it makes me wonder if thats normal/intended. In the km77-moose test the alpine has problems even with 75km/h while a cayman does the same with 85km/h?!
I mean thats a whole different league? With handling like that the alpine couldnt do laptimes anywhere close to the porsche times (i know they are slower, but only a little).
Regarding the esp: when you enter track mode it explicitly says „esp off“ so I assumed it was off. My Instructor said in germany it can never be really of due to regulations (which i didn’t know before). I guess the skidpad was just too slippery for the esp to work correctly.
Oh, and yes. I am definitely looking towards more neg camber when i get the geo adjusted.
I mean thats a whole different league? With handling like that the alpine couldnt do laptimes anywhere close to the porsche times (i know they are slower, but only a little).
Regarding the esp: when you enter track mode it explicitly says „esp off“ so I assumed it was off. My Instructor said in germany it can never be really of due to regulations (which i didn’t know before). I guess the skidpad was just too slippery for the esp to work correctly.
Oh, and yes. I am definitely looking towards more neg camber when i get the geo adjusted.
I haven’t changed the geo on my car. I’ve done one airfield day where sliding around was encouraged (rather than track day where drifting would be discouraged). I had no trouble hanging the back end out all the way round a 180 degree hairpin (a little bigger than Druids, at Brands, if you know it) on a dry day. This is in the standard car, in track mode, with the traction control off & my right foot mashed firmly into the floor. I was throwing the car into the corner to deliberately unsettle it & enjoy screeching all the way around the corner in the manner of a Top Gear presenter, but without hooting & laughing to myself, like an idiot.
You still need to disable the traction control after you select track mode. I think I’m right in saying the TC light comes on as soon as you select track mode, probably just as a warning that the car will start to slide a little before the TC does its thing; you need to turn it off to get full control of the car.
Also, I increased my tyre pressures about 5psi all round, to save the tread at the edges of the tyres & this helped for this kind of driving – ie a short track, with mostly tight corners, where I wanted to rotate the car, rather than drive neatly & smoothly as I would on a proper race circuit. For a track day, I’d be decreasing the pressures, so they were normal pressure when hot, then I’d pump the tyres up again before I drove home.
So, if you know how, drifting is easy when you have enough space to play in safely, although it’s not as easy to provoke oversteer as some cars I’ve had in the past. I think your main problem was, the TC wasn’t off properly. Track mode allows the car to oversteer in some situations, but it’s still going to spoil your fun, on a track, unless you turn the TC right off.
You say the steering is numb. Yes, this is normal for an A110. It’s because of the rubbish electric steering. All the feeling comes through the seat. The steering shouldn’t be unresponsive, however, & you shouldn’t be feeling a lot of understeer on wide bends. If you go into a mini roundabout quickly then the car will understeer, unless you are experienced enough to bring the back end around with the right amount of throttle (a big amount) at just the right moment, but this is not the way anybody should be driving around mini roundabouts. Almost all cars will understeer if you tackle a tight corner too quickly. Cars are designed to understeer when driven into a corner too quickly because it’s easier to regain control than it would be if the back end were to lose traction before the front.
So to summarise, I’d say once you’ve got your geo done, give it another month & it will be time for the summer tyres. Book another driver training day; look up how to turn the TC off (long press, if I remember correctly), pump your tyres up (I’d say start with +10 psi & come down a bit if the tyres become overheated & slippery) & get your instructor to drive & show you how easy it is to hang the back end out, then you can practice, & have a great deal of fun.
You still need to disable the traction control after you select track mode. I think I’m right in saying the TC light comes on as soon as you select track mode, probably just as a warning that the car will start to slide a little before the TC does its thing; you need to turn it off to get full control of the car.
Also, I increased my tyre pressures about 5psi all round, to save the tread at the edges of the tyres & this helped for this kind of driving – ie a short track, with mostly tight corners, where I wanted to rotate the car, rather than drive neatly & smoothly as I would on a proper race circuit. For a track day, I’d be decreasing the pressures, so they were normal pressure when hot, then I’d pump the tyres up again before I drove home.
So, if you know how, drifting is easy when you have enough space to play in safely, although it’s not as easy to provoke oversteer as some cars I’ve had in the past. I think your main problem was, the TC wasn’t off properly. Track mode allows the car to oversteer in some situations, but it’s still going to spoil your fun, on a track, unless you turn the TC right off.
You say the steering is numb. Yes, this is normal for an A110. It’s because of the rubbish electric steering. All the feeling comes through the seat. The steering shouldn’t be unresponsive, however, & you shouldn’t be feeling a lot of understeer on wide bends. If you go into a mini roundabout quickly then the car will understeer, unless you are experienced enough to bring the back end around with the right amount of throttle (a big amount) at just the right moment, but this is not the way anybody should be driving around mini roundabouts. Almost all cars will understeer if you tackle a tight corner too quickly. Cars are designed to understeer when driven into a corner too quickly because it’s easier to regain control than it would be if the back end were to lose traction before the front.
So to summarise, I’d say once you’ve got your geo done, give it another month & it will be time for the summer tyres. Book another driver training day; look up how to turn the TC off (long press, if I remember correctly), pump your tyres up (I’d say start with +10 psi & come down a bit if the tyres become overheated & slippery) & get your instructor to drive & show you how easy it is to hang the back end out, then you can practice, & have a great deal of fun.
I've had my PE on Thruxton's skid pan. With Track mode set and TC/ESP fully off you should be able able to drive around on full opposite lock as long as your heart desires and your skill allows . As others have said ESP isn't fully off if just Track mode is selected and that will prevent you having much fun.
Kawasicki said:
Maybe you are expecting Porsche type dynamics, and the car definitely does not have that. Some people see that as a good thing.
Some people love the way the Alpine drives, I don’t.
I do love the concept of the vehicle though, and the looks.
The problem I had with my 981 was that it just went round corners at any sane road speed. I might as well have been a passenger. The attraction of the A110 for me is that you DO have to drive it at road speeds.Some people love the way the Alpine drives, I don’t.
I do love the concept of the vehicle though, and the looks.
As has been suggested your geo may be off - or you may just prefer a more stable set up which Life 110 offers.
Thanks for all your replies. I‘ll definitely report back once the new geo is in place. One thing i noticed today, that the ESC Off button behaves really strange. When you press it nothing happens. So i hold it for like 5-10 seconds and also nothing happens. Then i press it multiple times in despair and then i get the ESC off warning im the display. Does anyone know how it’s properly disabled? My current method of randomly pressing until it works feels wrong somehow… ;-)
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