Throttle response A110 vs MX-5 ND
Discussion
During this winter I keep the Alpine in the garage most of the time and take the MX-5 for the occasional trips in and around the city. One thing I seem to notice, mainly when driving through town, is that the Mazda seems to have a more immediate throttle response than the A110. Do other A110 and MX-5 owners have a similar experience?
I should mention that the MX-5 has a 2 litre engine and has the BBR-GTI Super 190 treatment, consisting of an ECU remap, upgraded air intake and exhaust, and (most important of course) a K&N air filter.
Of course, it could be that it is just the turbo lag (I have never driven a turbo before), but I would expect that the Alpine's 'Sport' mode would work around such turbo lag. Once it picks up, it is still bloody fast at any speed, but I am wondering if there is some minor improvement that changes that first second after hitting the throttle.
I should mention that the MX-5 has a 2 litre engine and has the BBR-GTI Super 190 treatment, consisting of an ECU remap, upgraded air intake and exhaust, and (most important of course) a K&N air filter.
Of course, it could be that it is just the turbo lag (I have never driven a turbo before), but I would expect that the Alpine's 'Sport' mode would work around such turbo lag. Once it picks up, it is still bloody fast at any speed, but I am wondering if there is some minor improvement that changes that first second after hitting the throttle.
We run a super 200 ND with our A110, you will struggle to get the blown 4 pot in the Alpine to match the immediacy and throttle response of the NA Skyactive Mazda block in BBR tune.
For a cheap run of the mill 4 pot Mazda did a pretty good job of low down torque & top end power, max torque at 3850rpm and peak power north of 7000rpm.
That said I think Alpine also did a good job with the Renaultsport blown 4 pot, Life110’s map may make the power delivery feel more NA but I haven’t sampled it yet ?
For a cheap run of the mill 4 pot Mazda did a pretty good job of low down torque & top end power, max torque at 3850rpm and peak power north of 7000rpm.
That said I think Alpine also did a good job with the Renaultsport blown 4 pot, Life110’s map may make the power delivery feel more NA but I haven’t sampled it yet ?
Hi Simon,
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the BBR-kit. It really adds a lot of fun to the MX-5. Following your Life110 recommendation, I will do some further research. I still have a lot of time as I will not change anything to the engine or ECU before warranty runs out anyway.
Bram
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the BBR-kit. It really adds a lot of fun to the MX-5. Following your Life110 recommendation, I will do some further research. I still have a lot of time as I will not change anything to the engine or ECU before warranty runs out anyway.
Bram
bram070 said:
Hi Simon,
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the BBR-kit. It really adds a lot of fun to the MX-5. Following your Life110 recommendation, I will do some further research. I still have a lot of time as I will not change anything to the engine or ECU before warranty runs out anyway.
Bram
Firstly let me say I have no experience of the ND MX-5 in standard or modified form, so I can't comment on the throttle response specifically. I can certainly agree that even the best modern (conventional rather than electrical) turbos can't match the best NA cars of the PAST. That said there is no doubt that emission/economy concerns/regs have blunted the response of most modern NA cars.Thanks for sharing your experiences with the BBR-kit. It really adds a lot of fun to the MX-5. Following your Life110 recommendation, I will do some further research. I still have a lot of time as I will not change anything to the engine or ECU before warranty runs out anyway.
Bram
The best modern turbos can (measureably) match the throttle response typical mainstream NA cars. I have measured the time the turbo on the A110 takes to get to full boost - and it is 0.5 second or less over 2000 rpm. Half a second is, these days, very respectable for the throttle response of sporting NA cars. Of course, after market conversions have much more freedom to ignore emissions and therefore might get better throttle response.
ThisInJapanese said:
I've only test driven an A110 (mine should be with me at the end of Feb) and I drive a remapped 2 litre NC sport. Driving both back to back the NC has a much sharper throttle response than the A110, to me it's the difference between NA and a turbo engine.
There is a HUGE difference between the best and worst NA and Turbo engines in terms of throttle response. In the past turbo engines were all pretty dire. While I'd certainly agree that nowadays NA engines generally have some advantage - it certainly isn't always the case.What’s interesting is that we’re talking about two very good mainstream executions of each, they both work equally well in my experience. Mazda have done a cracking job in the 180bhp ND given all the constraints and strangling enforced these days, it’s the closest I’ve experienced to old school NA 4 pots.
Likewise the blown unit in the Alpine does a great job too doesn’t it, but I know we all know that don’t we
Alpine’s engine choice punches way beyond its mainstream origins in the A110, obviously IMHO of course.
By contrast I always wondered what our GT86 would have been like with the 1.8 A110 transplanted in !! I’m a huge NA fan but better to have a good turbo than a poor NA eh ?
Likewise the blown unit in the Alpine does a great job too doesn’t it, but I know we all know that don’t we
Alpine’s engine choice punches way beyond its mainstream origins in the A110, obviously IMHO of course.By contrast I always wondered what our GT86 would have been like with the 1.8 A110 transplanted in !! I’m a huge NA fan but better to have a good turbo than a poor NA eh ?
Edited by Simon Owen on Thursday 19th January 09:28
Simon Owen said:
What’s interesting is that we’re talking about two very good mainstream executions of each, they both work equally well in my experience. Mazda have done a cracking job in the 180bhp ND given all the constraints and strangling enforced these days, it’s the closest I’ve experienced to old school NA 4 pots.
Likewise the blown unit in the Alpine does a great job too doesn’t it, but I know we all know that don’t we Alpine’s engine choice punches way beyond its mainstream origins in the A110, obviously IMHO of course.
By contrast I always wondered what our GT86 would have been like with the 1.8 A110 transplanted in !! I’m a huge NA fan but better to have a good turbo than a poor NA eh ?
Not driven an ND (II) - but I've heard it compared to a Lotus twin cam (which I have driven) - and that is high praise indeed. That said I have driven an NB tweaked for track duties and that was nothing special at all.Likewise the blown unit in the Alpine does a great job too doesn’t it, but I know we all know that don’t we
Alpine’s engine choice punches way beyond its mainstream origins in the A110, obviously IMHO of course.By contrast I always wondered what our GT86 would have been like with the 1.8 A110 transplanted in !! I’m a huge NA fan but better to have a good turbo than a poor NA eh ?
Edited by Simon Owen on Thursday 19th January 09:28
But to your GT86 comment I suspect it WOULD have been better with the A110 engine - not so sure about the GR86, which seems to have addressed the torque issues of the older car.
Not sure what I'm adding here but my Mum has a 30AE (because it's orange, not because she regularly troubles an LSD) and I had another go in it last weekend.
Can't argue that the throttle response is good, and the gearbox is a delight - but it made me realise I drive manuals a bit differently, and that the throttle response only really matters to me when blipping down through the gears (which obviously isn't a thing with the DCT)? Back to back I found it a little underwhelming, but then that happens with my M3 too - can't undo getting used to big torque, clearly - but similarly to it I get the distinct feeling it's a car which rewards more and more as you settle into it and exploit more of what it has to offer all the time. And it's a genuinely lovely thing.
30AE orange looks spectacular next to Bleu de France btw.
Can't argue that the throttle response is good, and the gearbox is a delight - but it made me realise I drive manuals a bit differently, and that the throttle response only really matters to me when blipping down through the gears (which obviously isn't a thing with the DCT)? Back to back I found it a little underwhelming, but then that happens with my M3 too - can't undo getting used to big torque, clearly - but similarly to it I get the distinct feeling it's a car which rewards more and more as you settle into it and exploit more of what it has to offer all the time. And it's a genuinely lovely thing.
30AE orange looks spectacular next to Bleu de France btw.
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