Are Lexus just rebadged Toyotas?

Are Lexus just rebadged Toyotas?

Poll: Are Lexus just rebadged Toyotas?

Total Members Polled: 254

Yes: 32%
No: 64%
Don’t know: 4%
Author
Discussion

Esceptico

Original Poster:

8,234 posts

116 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
This came up on another thread.

Back in the late eighties Toyota decided to create a luxury brand because, particularly outside Japan, they presumably correctly perceived that some people are snobs and are less prepared to buy a luxury car from a manufacturer that also makes small runarounds. Other Japanese manufacturers did the same.

In Japan their luxury cars continued to be badged as Toyotas until 2005 so presumably one of the most famous Lexus and one that established the brand outside Japan - the LS400 - was badged a Toyota.

In my mind Lexus are just rebadged Toyotas and it is pure marketing puff. They are made by Toyota, the CEO is the same and they don’t have a prior existence or history. That they are sold by separate dealers is just part of their marketing plan.

I would put MINI in the same category. They are just BMWs. If you have driven a new Mini you have a BMW. Designed, developed, planned and signed off by BMW. But with a clever marketing plan to play on people’s memory of the original Mini.

I think other cases are more difficult. Lamborghini has been part of the VW group for some time and there is sharing of parts and overall management from VW. Yet they did exist separately before the takeover. They possibly fall between the two stools, not being a full manufacturer yet more than just a brand.


Largechris

2,019 posts

98 months

Friday 4th February 2022
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Not sure if serious.

But having spent a bit of time with the original Lexus, the LS400, there is no way it shared anything with any “western” Toyota. You couldn’t buy a “Toyota LS400” here so what does it matter.

We could get into a deeply philosophical discussion about what makes a car a car I suppose.

Snow and Rocks

2,430 posts

34 months

Friday 4th February 2022
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You use the word "just" like it's a bad thing.

I've owned various Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, VW and would rate ownership of a Toyota significantly higher than any of those.

Of course Lexus is just Toyota with (even) higher standards - that's why a Lexus is next on my list.

SteBrown91

2,570 posts

136 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
No.

If you sit in a Toyota Auris then sit in a Lexus CT you will realise the quality difference is night and day, despite being based on the same car.

Yes they used to sell Lexus as Toyotas in Japan but you could also buy a Toyota century in Japan which was a tier above the LS. The Japanese market is a very odd setup

SAS Tom

3,545 posts

181 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
No they aren’t just rebadged Toyotas given the fact that no Lexus and Toyota look the same.

They do however share many parts and on my Lexus the doors are even stamped Toyota.

ETA I’ve just remembered I’m wrong, some Lexus’ and Toyota’s are the same but I believe only in Japan.

Edited by SAS Tom on Friday 4th February 23:06

Dingu

4,356 posts

37 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
Similarly a VW is just a Skoda OP?

swamp

1,000 posts

196 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
Are Lexus just rebadged Toyotas?

Yes. And that's a Good Thing.



gazza285

10,186 posts

215 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
Same company.

grudas

1,339 posts

175 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
As similar as vw and Bentley. Completely different budgets and importance of quality etc.

Esceptico

Original Poster:

8,234 posts

116 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
SAS Tom said:
No they aren’t just rebadged Toyotas given the fact that no Lexus and Toyota look the same.

They do however share many parts and on my Lexus the doors are even stamped Toyota.

ETA I’ve just remembered I’m wrong, some Lexus’ and Toyota’s are the same but I believe only in Japan.

Edited by SAS Tom on Friday 4th February 23:06
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.

Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.

I don’t have any against Toyota, quite the opposite. I’d be no more or less likely to buy a Lexus if it wore a Toyota badge.

Esceptico

Original Poster:

8,234 posts

116 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
Dingu said:
Similarly a VW is just a Skoda OP?
Probably. Skoda existed before it was taken over by VW but I am not sure there is much carryover from Skoda pre VW to current Skodas that seem quite closely related to VW models (same chassis, same engines, etc).

Dingu

4,356 posts

37 months

Friday 4th February 2022
quotequote all
Esceptico said:
Dingu said:
Similarly a VW is just a Skoda OP?
Probably. Skoda existed before it was taken over by VW but I am not sure there is much carryover from Skoda pre VW to current Skodas that seem quite closely related to VW models (same chassis, same engines, etc).
Right, so in light of your post above surely anyone buying a VW is just believing the marketing? The same thing is cheaper with a Skoda badge.

CABC

5,791 posts

108 months

Saturday 5th February 2022
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Esceptico said:
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.

Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
yep. bit like that VW Chiron and Skoda Huracan.

what you sit on, touch and electronically interact with on a Lexus is different to a Toyota, even if they share the TGNA platform for example. that's what 99% of people judge a car by.

grudas

1,339 posts

175 months

Saturday 5th February 2022
quotequote all
CABC said:
yep. bit like that VW Chiron and Skoda Huracan.

what you sit on, touch and electronically interact with on a Lexus is different to a Toyota, even if they share the TGNA platform for example. that's what 99% of people judge a car by.
Never mind the fact that Toyota only lets senior engineers and assembly workers touch Lexus. There’s a lot more to it but people struggle to see past it and enjoy driving their unreliable German cars with plastic cooling systems and broken engines.

donkmeister

9,236 posts

107 months

Saturday 5th February 2022
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I own a Lexus. I actually refer to it as my posh Toyota.

I wouldn't get weird about it if someone said "well, you're driving a Toyota in a frock there"... Try asking a Cupra driver about their Seat or Skoda and see what happens tongue out

Esceptico

Original Poster:

8,234 posts

116 months

Saturday 5th February 2022
quotequote all
CABC said:
Esceptico said:
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.

Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
yep. bit like that VW Chiron and Skoda Huracan.

what you sit on, touch and electronically interact with on a Lexus is different to a Toyota, even if they share the TGNA platform for example. that's what 99% of people judge a car by.
There isn’t much in common between the cheapest A series and and AMG GT, S class or Project One yet you presumably don’t have a problem in thinking of them all as Mercedes? What is the difference with Toyota?

belleair302

6,921 posts

214 months

Saturday 5th February 2022
quotequote all
I have over in the USA a 2011 Toyota Avalon a front wheel drive 3.6 L saloon built upon the Lexus LS chassis. In the UK we as a family have had an LS400 which covered well over 110K, an LS430 Which covered over 48K and an LS 460 which has 53K on the clock. I have also had a GS430. There is NO WAY a Lexus is a re budget Toyota. It is similar to saying an Alpina is a re badged BMW. It is the subtle differences that stand out, from fit and trim through to ICE and the silence, in addition to the servicing and dealership experience. The Lexus brand is so superior to that of Toyota that the link is tenuous these days and in the USA and UK you will NOT see a Toyota Dealer near a Lexus Dealer. Now Lexus UK may not sell many cars but they do sell hundreds of SUV's. in the USA Lexus sells thousands of cars a month and many more SUV's. I can imagine they outsell Audi in the USA and may even outsell BMW and M-B with regard to SUV's and large saloons.

rodericb

7,253 posts

133 months

Saturday 5th February 2022
quotequote all
Esceptico said:
CABC said:
Esceptico said:
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.

Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
yep. bit like that VW Chiron and Skoda Huracan.

what you sit on, touch and electronically interact with on a Lexus is different to a Toyota, even if they share the TGNA platform for example. that's what 99% of people judge a car by.
There isn’t much in common between the cheapest A series and and AMG GT, S class or Project One yet you presumably don’t have a problem in thinking of them all as Mercedes? What is the difference with Toyota?
There isn't much in common between a Corolla and a LFA either. Some Lexus models used to be badged as Toyota in Japan years ago - I don't know if they do that nowadays. Then you've got things which don't fit into either such as the GR Yaris which doesn't have the usual amount of Japanese Toyota engineering in it as a fair chunk of that was done in Germany and is built in the Lexus factory by folk with greater than something like twenty five years service with the company. A better German example would be the VAG world of cars.

And your example of a Mini just being a BMW? I reckon you could probably get a more accurate generalisation in saying those front wheel drive BMW's are just Minis....!

SuperNads

278 posts

166 months

Saturday 5th February 2022
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All car sales are a result of marketing but why does that make it 'marketing BS'?

Or is this one of those social media phrases like 'sheeple' and 'snowflake'?


bitchstewie

55,099 posts

217 months

Saturday 5th February 2022
quotequote all
Esceptico said:
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.

Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.

I don’t have any against Toyota, quite the opposite. I’d be no more or less likely to buy a Lexus if it wore a Toyota badge.
If your measure is simply the parent group and who's on the title deeds of the factory then sure it's a posh Toyota.

I've owned a Lexus IS before and drive several Toyota's through work and the difference in quality and refinement is night and day so by that measure I'd say far from it.

If you think it's marketing BS just don't buy one I guess.