Tesla to replace parking sensors with vision
Discussion
Their track record for successfully using vision rather than sensors isn't great, just look at the complaints about the auto wipers (although in fairness my Models S one's are fine). I do wonder how the front facing cameras can see objects within a foot of the front bumper though.
I'm sure they've put it through some rigerous testing though.......
I'm sure they've put it through some rigerous testing though.......
CheesecakeRunner said:
Much as I think my Model 3 is great, this now rules out another or a Y as a replacement. I just don’t trust them to get this right after the recent mess of vision with adaptive cruise and forcing in auto high beams that don’t work very well.
https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-...
Quite. I was potentially going to trade in my M3P and get the wife a MY LR, but with this announcement, nope.https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-...
GLS said:
Let me get this right, you're not planning on purchasing another Tesla because of the tech they use for parking sensors?
Have you forgotten how to drive without driver aids?
Ah the cult of Elon members are out in force - can't daddy Elon do anything wrong in your mind? No parking sensors is just absolutely mad and unacceptable on a car at this price.Have you forgotten how to drive without driver aids?
just got the email for this on my Y order,
bit of a f
king piss take that a 50 grand car doesnt now come with parking sensors, and they dont know when it will?
All Tesla cars built from October 2022 onwards will be built without ultrasonic sensors mounted in the bumpers in preparation for Tesla Vision to take over the ultrasonic sensors functions.
Tesla has announced that, as a result, there will be a period of time when your car may be missing some functionality.
If you’ve chosen the standard level of Tesla Autopilot, your vehicle may temporarily not have the following features:
• Parking Assist (alerts you of surrounding objects when the vehicle is travelling under 5mph)
If you’ve chosen either Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving in addition to Parking Assist, your vehicle may temporarily not have:
• Auto Park (automatically parks your car in a parking space)
• Summon & Smart Summon (moves your vehicle in and out of parking spaces remotely from your Tesla app)
Tesla hasn’t announced a timeline for when these features will become available to drivers in the UK. But, once available, they’ll be sent to the car via an over the air software update. Find out more about Tesla’s Tesla Vision announcement and read their FAQs.
bit of a f
king piss take that a 50 grand car doesnt now come with parking sensors, and they dont know when it will? All Tesla cars built from October 2022 onwards will be built without ultrasonic sensors mounted in the bumpers in preparation for Tesla Vision to take over the ultrasonic sensors functions.
Tesla has announced that, as a result, there will be a period of time when your car may be missing some functionality.
If you’ve chosen the standard level of Tesla Autopilot, your vehicle may temporarily not have the following features:
• Parking Assist (alerts you of surrounding objects when the vehicle is travelling under 5mph)
If you’ve chosen either Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving in addition to Parking Assist, your vehicle may temporarily not have:
• Auto Park (automatically parks your car in a parking space)
• Summon & Smart Summon (moves your vehicle in and out of parking spaces remotely from your Tesla app)
Tesla hasn’t announced a timeline for when these features will become available to drivers in the UK. But, once available, they’ll be sent to the car via an over the air software update. Find out more about Tesla’s Tesla Vision announcement and read their FAQs.
They are seemingly taking a lot of backward steps for things that I personally care about. If for example I bought a new Model S when they start coming to the UK I'd very much miss:
A full steering wheel (if the stupid yoke makes it to the UK)
An indicator stalk
A gear selector stalk
Radar
Parking sensors
Cruise/autopilot stalk
They aren't seemingly making things better, they are reducing cost in really key areas that you interact with constantly. This at a time when many other manufacturers are coming out with some very very compelling alternatives. I really like my Model S but if the stuff in my list above wasn't there, especially the steering wheel I'd very much consider my options when it's time to change.
A full steering wheel (if the stupid yoke makes it to the UK)
An indicator stalk
A gear selector stalk
Radar
Parking sensors
Cruise/autopilot stalk
They aren't seemingly making things better, they are reducing cost in really key areas that you interact with constantly. This at a time when many other manufacturers are coming out with some very very compelling alternatives. I really like my Model S but if the stuff in my list above wasn't there, especially the steering wheel I'd very much consider my options when it's time to change.
I think this is a difficult one for Tesla. Take a look at the recently produced NCAP video for the Model Y, where it got a really high score. Comparing it against other cars it scores best where a pedestrian is walking across the car, with the car travelling at slow speed, at an angle. Usual situation in a built up area.
Most other cars run over the pedestrian. I imagine this is because they rely on radar sensors, and that sensor (the large black square you see in the front of a lot of cars) is facing the wrong way as a pedestrian approaches from a corner.
Tesla have an advantage over competitors (and increase road safety) with their 360° camera and recognition software in this slow speed scenario.
The problem is when does the car rely on radar parking sensors and ignore the camera recognition? Removing the radar makes this quick decision the car has to make much easier, especially if someone walks behind a reversing car.
The argument against cameras is they get dirty, or even covered up in snow. However the Highway Code says you have to clear your windows before setting off, maybe in Tesla’s world that theory extends to their cameras? Maybe they will make them heated and self cleaning?
Most other cars run over the pedestrian. I imagine this is because they rely on radar sensors, and that sensor (the large black square you see in the front of a lot of cars) is facing the wrong way as a pedestrian approaches from a corner.
Tesla have an advantage over competitors (and increase road safety) with their 360° camera and recognition software in this slow speed scenario.
The problem is when does the car rely on radar parking sensors and ignore the camera recognition? Removing the radar makes this quick decision the car has to make much easier, especially if someone walks behind a reversing car.
The argument against cameras is they get dirty, or even covered up in snow. However the Highway Code says you have to clear your windows before setting off, maybe in Tesla’s world that theory extends to their cameras? Maybe they will make them heated and self cleaning?
Edited by Hans_Gruber on Thursday 6th October 11:32
Well I certainly haven’t watched them all, but take your pick;
Mercedes c class 2022 - probably causes life changing injuries
2022 Peugeot 308 - probably a trip to hospital
2022 VW Polo and 2022 Cupra Born likely kills the pedestrian
In all of the scenarios it’s where the pedestrian is coming into the car’s path from an angle, hence why I would suggest this is pushing the limits of a radar sensor which is directional, as opposed to a camera with recognition software. Take a look for yourself, they are all on YouTube.
Mercedes c class 2022 - probably causes life changing injuries
2022 Peugeot 308 - probably a trip to hospital
2022 VW Polo and 2022 Cupra Born likely kills the pedestrian
In all of the scenarios it’s where the pedestrian is coming into the car’s path from an angle, hence why I would suggest this is pushing the limits of a radar sensor which is directional, as opposed to a camera with recognition software. Take a look for yourself, they are all on YouTube.
But the removal of radar has to be mainly a cost saving measure. Having the radar/camera combo seems to be a real winner.
I was on the M25 a couple of weeks ago at rush hour and there was a massive downpour, I couldn't really see anything. The camera certainly couldn't see the lanes but the radar worked great and kept me semi safe and away from the car in front. The range on radar on a clear road, or in fog is also fantastic.
It just seems as I said above Tesla are being cheap and one of their main USP's of great driver assistance being eroded really feels like they are shooting themselves in the foot!
I was on the M25 a couple of weeks ago at rush hour and there was a massive downpour, I couldn't really see anything. The camera certainly couldn't see the lanes but the radar worked great and kept me semi safe and away from the car in front. The range on radar on a clear road, or in fog is also fantastic.
It just seems as I said above Tesla are being cheap and one of their main USP's of great driver assistance being eroded really feels like they are shooting themselves in the foot!
It's not about cost saving - well not in parts, anyway. It's about trying to reduce the complexity of systems and the complexity of the electrical platform.
Cars are becoming incredibly complex - not only in terms of features but in terms of configurability and modularity. If you have two modules that are essentially replicating features (even if it requires more software) it's the best option to do so.
Cars are becoming incredibly complex - not only in terms of features but in terms of configurability and modularity. If you have two modules that are essentially replicating features (even if it requires more software) it's the best option to do so.
Funkstar De Luxe said:
It's not about cost saving - well not in parts, anyway. It's about trying to reduce the complexity of systems and the complexity of the electrical platform.
Cars are becoming incredibly complex - not only in terms of features but in terms of configurability and modularity. If you have two modules that are essentially replicating features (even if it requires more software) it's the best option to do so.
I don't buy this. So many of Teslas decisions are about cost saving and manufacturing simplicity irrespective of whether it is the better engineering/customer solution. The big touch screens mean will be a huge cost down on a typical interior and likewise the simplifications seen on the 3 over the S. Similarly, on the driving assistance side of things they do everything they can to delete stuff like radar or the parking sensors, whereas others utilise tech like LIDAR to get better data in.Cars are becoming incredibly complex - not only in terms of features but in terms of configurability and modularity. If you have two modules that are essentially replicating features (even if it requires more software) it's the best option to do so.
Some of the solutions I've seen on Teslas are very neat, and if they pull off vision only self driving it will be a gamechanger but it feels to me like its about getting the profit per unit up and pushing the design/software teams to deliver a viable solution within those constraints. I think they can get to a minimum viable product situation with vision only, but it will put a cap on what they are ultimately able to achieve compared to those who use a suite of sensors.
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