Tesla Battery Life Concerns
Discussion
We'd like to change our car and have been looking at all the options regarding EV's PHEV's and Hybrid's. We're still undecided on which option will suit us best but there's one obstacle I need to get over first. My OH is concerned about what might happen if the battery dies on a Tesla. I've assured her there's an 8 year warranty (whatever a warranty might actually be worth these days) but she's still worried about potentially massive bills if the battery ever needs replacing.
My question is, does anyone have any tips about how to best preserve battery life? I've heard that using Tesla Supercharger points too frequently has a negative impact. What about infrequent use of the car itself? Do they need to be used every day? Discharged and charged often? Do Tesla check the battery's come service time? Does that help?
Most journeys these days are short (10 to 20 mile round trips) and we might only use the car a few times a week.
Any help would be appreciated.
NB If we opt for a Tesla, it will probably be a Model 3 (Standard or Long Range).
My question is, does anyone have any tips about how to best preserve battery life? I've heard that using Tesla Supercharger points too frequently has a negative impact. What about infrequent use of the car itself? Do they need to be used every day? Discharged and charged often? Do Tesla check the battery's come service time? Does that help?
Most journeys these days are short (10 to 20 mile round trips) and we might only use the car a few times a week.
Any help would be appreciated.
NB If we opt for a Tesla, it will probably be a Model 3 (Standard or Long Range).
MB140 said:
General guidance I believe for most lithium batteries is charge to 80% don’t discharge below 20% if possible (obviously if need must then do so) and charge as slow as you can.
Thanks. Given the 'tech' that comes with a Tesla, do you know if it's possible to set timers from the car so that you're not charging every hour of the day when the car isn't being used? Can you also 'set' the car to only charge up to 80%? I'd hate to be running in and out of my garage every day when the car isn't been driven to check the battery status.The Model 3 Standard now has an updated battery tech so you can charge it to 100% every day.
Why is she more concerned about batteries vs an engine (say) going wrong? If batteries were failing all over the place there would be companies springing up to repair them (there are a few in the US, but very few).
Model S has been in the UK since 2014, you don't hear of them failing?
IF they did start failing, then replacing them at thousands would not be the only option, just as having your blown engine replaced by a crate engine via a main dealer isn't the only option.
Why is she more concerned about batteries vs an engine (say) going wrong? If batteries were failing all over the place there would be companies springing up to repair them (there are a few in the US, but very few).
Model S has been in the UK since 2014, you don't hear of them failing?
IF they did start failing, then replacing them at thousands would not be the only option, just as having your blown engine replaced by a crate engine via a main dealer isn't the only option.
CharlieAlphaMike said:
MB140 said:
General guidance I believe for most lithium batteries is charge to 80% don’t discharge below 20% if possible (obviously if need must then do so) and charge as slow as you can.
Thanks. Given the 'tech' that comes with a Tesla, do you know if it's possible to set timers from the car so that you're not charging every hour of the day when the car isn't being used? Can you also 'set' the car to only charge up to 80%? I'd hate to be running in and out of my garage every day when the car isn't been driven to check the battery status.CharlesElliott said:
Why is she more concerned about batteries vs an engine (say) going wrong? If batteries were failing all over the place there would be companies springing up to repair them (there are a few in the US, but very few).
It's a question I've asked her. She doesn't understand that a failed cambelt can lead to a scrapped car. If I talk about cambelt failures, she thinks you can just replace the belt and everything will be fine 
CharlesElliott said:
The Model 3 Standard now has an updated battery tech so you can charge it to 100% every day.
Why is she more concerned about batteries vs an engine (say) going wrong? If batteries were failing all over the place there would be companies springing up to repair them (there are a few in the US, but very few).
Model S has been in the UK since 2014, you don't hear of them failing?
IF they did start failing, then replacing them at thousands would not be the only option, just as having your blown engine replaced by a crate engine via a main dealer isn't the only option.
Thanks. I didn't know that there was some 'tech' that prevented the battery from being overcharged. I assumed there might be but didn't know for sure. That information helps a lot.Why is she more concerned about batteries vs an engine (say) going wrong? If batteries were failing all over the place there would be companies springing up to repair them (there are a few in the US, but very few).
Model S has been in the UK since 2014, you don't hear of them failing?
IF they did start failing, then replacing them at thousands would not be the only option, just as having your blown engine replaced by a crate engine via a main dealer isn't the only option.
I agree, I haven't heard of many battery failures either. It would be big news if it happened. I do wonder how many batteries have been replaced under warranty though.
Tesla have a very sophisticated battery management system, and it controls the rate of charge the car will accept. If the pack isn't at optimum temperature, the car will limit the rate.
I would have more concerns about the battery management competency from one of the OEM's now being dragged into the EV market than I would Tesla's.
I would have more concerns about the battery management competency from one of the OEM's now being dragged into the EV market than I would Tesla's.
CharlesElliott said:
The Model 3 Standard now has an updated battery tech so you can charge it to 100% every day.
I woud be very careful not to be blinded by Tesla 'spin'.The lithium iron phosphate battery are CHEAPER to make than standard cells, and have WORSE energy density. They do degrade slower but also have worse temperature sensitive performance envelopes.
Tesla have told owners of these batteries to regularly charge to 100% because otherwise the BMS goes a bit nuts and cannot work out whats going on with the battery.
The most expensive and advanced car Tesla currently sell, the Plaid S is essentially using the same battery architecture and format as the original Model S launched in 2012.
The history of EV traction battery development is littered with false dawns and real life failures. Nissan, LG, Tesla, they have all been burnt by introducing 'better' battery tech into production only to realise a few years later they actually got something fundamentally wrong with the new design and have to roll back.
Edited by gangzoom on Friday 21st January 07:11
100% indicated on your nice flashy TV on the dashboard does not necessarily = actual battery at 100%
100% shown to the driver might equal 80% actual internally and Tesla can move that figure about as they please.
That way the driver is happy as they see 100% and Tesla is happy as the pack is in the comfort zone 20-80% or whatever they decide.
100% shown to the driver might equal 80% actual internally and Tesla can move that figure about as they please.
That way the driver is happy as they see 100% and Tesla is happy as the pack is in the comfort zone 20-80% or whatever they decide.
While Tesla provide an 8yr 100k mile warranty (SR+), 120k (LR/P)
They claim based on their data that the current battery packs should still have 80% of their new rated capacity after 500k miles.
So likely that the batteries will outlive the car.
The other thing is that, due to the robustness of electric motors and the inherent value the batteries have, the second hand values will likely remain strong, even if the car needs to be scrapped.
They claim based on their data that the current battery packs should still have 80% of their new rated capacity after 500k miles.
So likely that the batteries will outlive the car.
The other thing is that, due to the robustness of electric motors and the inherent value the batteries have, the second hand values will likely remain strong, even if the car needs to be scrapped.
Plenty of advice on charging on YouTube but I simply follow teslas guidance. I charge the car to the “trip” line for every day use and avoid dropping below 20% capacity, and keep an eye on charge just as you do with fossil fuel.
If I go on a long journey I charge the car to the indicated 100%, but schedule the charge to finish shortly before I leave.
It’s easy to plug in at home and charge, only use the Supercharger network when you’re on a trip, home chargers are the way to go.
I’ve found the convenience of that really easy to live with.
Your hardest part will be getting the Mrs to see that ICE cars can and do go wrong regularly, often at huge expense. Arguing with the Mrs is hard at times!
If I go on a long journey I charge the car to the indicated 100%, but schedule the charge to finish shortly before I leave.
It’s easy to plug in at home and charge, only use the Supercharger network when you’re on a trip, home chargers are the way to go.
I’ve found the convenience of that really easy to live with.
Your hardest part will be getting the Mrs to see that ICE cars can and do go wrong regularly, often at huge expense. Arguing with the Mrs is hard at times!
gangzoom said:
The lithium iron phosphate battery are CHEAPER to make than standard cells, and have WORSE energy density. They do degrade slower but also have worse temperature sensitive performance envelopes.
Cheaper because they don't contain cobalt, significantly reduced risk of thermal runaway, better high SOC degredation resistance.The car doesn't have any weird bulges to accommodate them, and performance impact is negligible in the non-performance models.
steveatesh said:
Plenty of advice on charging on YouTube but I simply follow teslas guidance. I charge the car to the “trip” line for every day use and avoid dropping below 20% capacity, and keep an eye on charge just as you do with fossil fuel.
If I go on a long journey I charge the car to the indicated 100%, but schedule the charge to finish shortly before I leave.
It’s easy to plug in at home and charge, only use the Supercharger network when you’re on a trip, home chargers are the way to go.
I’ve found the convenience of that really easy to live with.
Your hardest part will be getting the Mrs to see that ICE cars can and do go wrong regularly, often at huge expense. Arguing with the Mrs is hard at times!
Thanks. That's very useful info. The big problem for me is that none of my ICE cars have ever 'gone wrong' so she believes they are ALL 100% more reliable than this 'fancy new tech' stuff If I go on a long journey I charge the car to the indicated 100%, but schedule the charge to finish shortly before I leave.
It’s easy to plug in at home and charge, only use the Supercharger network when you’re on a trip, home chargers are the way to go.
I’ve found the convenience of that really easy to live with.
Your hardest part will be getting the Mrs to see that ICE cars can and do go wrong regularly, often at huge expense. Arguing with the Mrs is hard at times!
She does like the idea of reducing the day-to-day running costs (ie fuel) and appreciates that Hybrids probably aren't the right choice. She likes the idea of a PHEV and I must say I'm still considering that option. gangzoom said:
CharlesElliott said:
Model S has been in the UK since 2014, you don't hear of them failing?
Because Tesla has used software to hide failures and get out of their warranty commitments. Tesla have also put a mileage cap on the warranty and EXCLUDE any degradation as a result of software changes. Basically, Tesla can reduce the range to protect the battery (and warranty claims) whenever they want, publicity wise it might not be smart but they've done it before, and the owners group stupidly tell everyone to show % rather than miles range so you'd never know.
The Litium Iron batteries in the cold charge really slowly. Tesla have wound back the heat pump which was sucking heat out of the battery to the point where the heat pump doesn't do that much anymore which allows the battery to run warmer and actually deliver some performance. Tesla are the masters of spin.
That all said, would I be worried? No, but I wouldn't recommend anybody own an EV out of battery warranty at the moment. not until the 3rd party repairers get their heads around how to fix/replace individual cells etc and a battery repair at 100k miles is no more unusual than a new exhaust on an ICE.
Heres Johnny said:
That all said, would I be worried? No, but I wouldn't recommend anybody own an EV out of battery warranty at the moment. not until the 3rd party repairers get their heads around how to fix/replace individual cells etc and a battery repair at 100k miles is no more unusual than a new exhaust on an ICE.
This^They have failed, they can fail and will fail in the future. But with a manufacturers warranty, you should be good. It is a concern for a lot of people, hence the manufacturers, Tesla included, have a decent warranty here.
Now, as you say, third party repairs are only just starting. Plenty of places here in the US will do Leaf and Prius batteries for a very competitive rate. Fully expect there to be specialists stepping up on other EV's. Though there are a few Tesla specialists already, it wont be long before there are more. Third party repair is a big issue here though, and its taking time to get the 'right to repair' laws in place to support this. 14+ states are trying to introduce laws to do this (oddly, California isnt one of them) and Mass recently passed it. It will take time, but once it does, fully expect third party places to open up quickly and battery pack repair to be a real option for those owners who are out of warranty.
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