Used Model S - sensible?
Discussion
Hi All,
What are peoples views on used Model S cars? Earlier cars are about the £30K + mark and some nice looking pre face lift cars are starting at £35K and they seem to offer a lot of VFM when viewed against the recent crop of EVs from other car makers (ok oranges and lemons maybe).
Something like this as an example, looks the part and from the spec would certainly be "nippy" enough: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111229...
A lot has been made of the build quality of the early Model 3 cars, how does the bigger (more luxurious?) car fair and is there anything to specifically look for or avoid like the plague, are they likely to be a money pit?
TIA
What are peoples views on used Model S cars? Earlier cars are about the £30K + mark and some nice looking pre face lift cars are starting at £35K and they seem to offer a lot of VFM when viewed against the recent crop of EVs from other car makers (ok oranges and lemons maybe).
Something like this as an example, looks the part and from the spec would certainly be "nippy" enough: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111229...
A lot has been made of the build quality of the early Model 3 cars, how does the bigger (more luxurious?) car fair and is there anything to specifically look for or avoid like the plague, are they likely to be a money pit?
TIA
Hi All,
Posted this in the tesla forum but thought I would also look to get a wider POV on the above question.
What are peoples views on used Model S cars? Earlier cars are about the £30K + mark and some nice looking pre face lift cars are starting at £35K and they seem to offer a lot of VFM when viewed against the recent crop of EVs from other car makers (ok oranges and lemons maybe).
Something like this as an example, looks the part and from the spec would certainly be "nippy" enough: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111229...
A lot has been made of the build quality of the early Model 3 cars, how does the bigger (more luxurious?) car fair and is there anything to specifically look for or avoid like the plague, are they likely to be a money pit even though one selling point of EVs are the lower maintenance costs?
TIA
Posted this in the tesla forum but thought I would also look to get a wider POV on the above question.
What are peoples views on used Model S cars? Earlier cars are about the £30K + mark and some nice looking pre face lift cars are starting at £35K and they seem to offer a lot of VFM when viewed against the recent crop of EVs from other car makers (ok oranges and lemons maybe).
Something like this as an example, looks the part and from the spec would certainly be "nippy" enough: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111229...
A lot has been made of the build quality of the early Model 3 cars, how does the bigger (more luxurious?) car fair and is there anything to specifically look for or avoid like the plague, are they likely to be a money pit even though one selling point of EVs are the lower maintenance costs?
TIA
The one you link to is incorrectly listed, it’s a P85+ not a P85D so it is rear motor only (although some quite enjoy that) and doesn’t even have AP1 hardware so no auto steer or active cruise.
The 85 battery is a known weakness with plenty of people suffering from reduced capacity and reduced charge rates. It’s not all of them but it’s a significant number and in some countries there are class action legal fights over it.
The big screen MCU will be the original version and the graphics a bit chunkier than current cars, it’s also slower and is prone to a memory fault. Tesla warrant this for longer now but a 2014 car it will soon run out, as will the warranty on the battery and motor. You can upgrade for about £1500
Headlights are a known weakness, the design on that age car misses a washer so they have to use low power bulbs, they’re frankly rubbish. The daylight running bar also fails which is £1000 a side new.
After that.. suspension parts wear, door handles fail, rear boot actuator fails, I’m sure there are other issues but I’d need to refer you to my buyers guide but Pistonheads tell me off if I do.
The long and short is a 7 year old car is very different on the tech and charging front compared to a modern Tesla.
The 85 battery is a known weakness with plenty of people suffering from reduced capacity and reduced charge rates. It’s not all of them but it’s a significant number and in some countries there are class action legal fights over it.
The big screen MCU will be the original version and the graphics a bit chunkier than current cars, it’s also slower and is prone to a memory fault. Tesla warrant this for longer now but a 2014 car it will soon run out, as will the warranty on the battery and motor. You can upgrade for about £1500
Headlights are a known weakness, the design on that age car misses a washer so they have to use low power bulbs, they’re frankly rubbish. The daylight running bar also fails which is £1000 a side new.
After that.. suspension parts wear, door handles fail, rear boot actuator fails, I’m sure there are other issues but I’d need to refer you to my buyers guide but Pistonheads tell me off if I do.
The long and short is a 7 year old car is very different on the tech and charging front compared to a modern Tesla.
Your autotrader link doesn't work, but I've driven a Model S and I personally wouldn't want one. My main issue is the control system, where lots of basic operations needs to be carried out on a touch screen. I'm not just talking about media and heater controls, but functions as basic as adjusting windscreen wiper speeds.
If I were going to buy an EV, I'd want it to work the same way a normal car does, and have as many physical controls as possible. The EV that attracts me the most is the Porsche Taycan, and that uses too many touchscreen controls for my taste. But at least the wiper controls don't require the eyes to be off the road.
Also, beware of the cost of replacement batteries. A Finnish chap blew up his model S in protest after being told he'd need to spend £17,000 to replace the battery.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-u...
If I were going to buy an EV, I'd want it to work the same way a normal car does, and have as many physical controls as possible. The EV that attracts me the most is the Porsche Taycan, and that uses too many touchscreen controls for my taste. But at least the wiper controls don't require the eyes to be off the road.
Also, beware of the cost of replacement batteries. A Finnish chap blew up his model S in protest after being told he'd need to spend £17,000 to replace the battery.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-u...
The biggest issues with early Model S is the 85 kWh battery pack. There are inherent design/build flaws in the pack that can lead to problems that Tesla refuse to make public. Yes there is a 8 year 'unlimited miles' warranty, but UK 2014 cars will be out of that warranty soon, and Tesla have carried out a number of software 'gates' to try and make the packs last beyond the warranty period so that they can wash their hands of any issues.
'Chargegate' is probably the best kept secret Tesla has some how managed to avoid bad press on. Essentially pretty much every single 85kWh pack car now charges at times, at the same speed as a 2015 Nissan Leaf. This is fine for a Leaf with a tiny 24kWh battery pack, but on a car with a 80kWh+ to fill it horrible, and essentially makes the cars almost unusable for long trips due to long charging speeds.
Tesla have tried to hide this by allowing the packs to 'Peak' at 100KW, but ineveitably the packs will than drop down to really pointless 'rapid' charging speed. This isn't to do with a cold battery, or lack of power from the charger, this is Tesla limiting the speed at which these packs can charge at to prolong their life inorder not to pay out $$$$$$ in warranty costs. So £30K+20K = £50K, that is still half the price of a brand new Model S, however spending £20K on a new battery for a used car that costs £30K is in no way 'normal' practice for used cars.
There is a solution to this, a brand new 90kWh pack from Tesla. However currently they cost $20K+, and its not entirely clear if Tesla will even sell you one. This new pack is pretty impressive though, it will give a 2014 Model S nearly the same range as a LR Model 3, and will charge at 70KW+ even at 80% SOC.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/service-sa...
'Chargegate' is probably the best kept secret Tesla has some how managed to avoid bad press on. Essentially pretty much every single 85kWh pack car now charges at times, at the same speed as a 2015 Nissan Leaf. This is fine for a Leaf with a tiny 24kWh battery pack, but on a car with a 80kWh+ to fill it horrible, and essentially makes the cars almost unusable for long trips due to long charging speeds.
Tesla have tried to hide this by allowing the packs to 'Peak' at 100KW, but ineveitably the packs will than drop down to really pointless 'rapid' charging speed. This isn't to do with a cold battery, or lack of power from the charger, this is Tesla limiting the speed at which these packs can charge at to prolong their life inorder not to pay out $$$$$$ in warranty costs. So £30K+20K = £50K, that is still half the price of a brand new Model S, however spending £20K on a new battery for a used car that costs £30K is in no way 'normal' practice for used cars.
There is a solution to this, a brand new 90kWh pack from Tesla. However currently they cost $20K+, and its not entirely clear if Tesla will even sell you one. This new pack is pretty impressive though, it will give a 2014 Model S nearly the same range as a LR Model 3, and will charge at 70KW+ even at 80% SOC.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/service-sa...
Edited by gangzoom on Friday 24th December 10:04
LunarOne said:
Your autotrader link doesn't work, but I've driven a Model S and I personally wouldn't want one. My main issue is the control system, where lots of basic operations needs to be carried out on a touch screen. I'm not just talking about media and heater controls, but functions as basic as adjusting windscreen wiper speeds.
If I were going to buy an EV, I'd want it to work the same way a normal car does, and have as many physical controls as possible. The EV that attracts me the most is the Porsche Taycan, and that uses too many touchscreen controls for my taste. But at least the wiper controls don't require the eyes to be off the road.
Also, beware of the cost of replacement batteries. A Finnish chap blew up his model S in protest after being told he'd need to spend £17,000 to replace the battery.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-u...
You didn't drive a model S then as wipers are controlled by the stalk in manual mode (auto is not great admittedly). Just use voice controls for most actions. Heater, lights etc are auto so I don't see why you would need to constantly fiddle. Battery failures are rare and all UK cars are within warranty, once they get old enough to require aftermarket support the learning will have been done in the US and fixes will be massively cheaper, normally caused by a faulty module at worst, most of it is labour..If I were going to buy an EV, I'd want it to work the same way a normal car does, and have as many physical controls as possible. The EV that attracts me the most is the Porsche Taycan, and that uses too many touchscreen controls for my taste. But at least the wiper controls don't require the eyes to be off the road.
Also, beware of the cost of replacement batteries. A Finnish chap blew up his model S in protest after being told he'd need to spend £17,000 to replace the battery.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-u...
ricola said:
once they get old enough to require aftermarket support the learning will have been done in the US and fixes will be massively cheaper, normally caused by a faulty module at worst, most of it is labour..
This statement is just incorrect. There is only two companies in the US that will even attempt a 'module replacement' on a Tesla pack, and one of those companies just had a massive fire that wiped out a huge number of customer cars. The cell chemistry Tesla use in their packs are much more unstable that in something like Leaf, and the packs aren't designed to be stripped down and have modules replaced like in a Leaf.https://insideevs.com/news/541361/gruber-fire-dest...
Getting a factory 'refurbished' pack from Tesla is one option if you plan on keeping the car for any length of time, the cost of a 'refurbed' Tesla pack is current around £13-15K. But refurbed packs are also chargegated, so the only real option is a brand new 350volts 90kWh pack which costs £20K+, but its seems like fliping a coin on even if Tesla will allow you buy one of these new packs at present.
ricola said:
LunarOne said:
Your autotrader link doesn't work, but I've driven a Model S and I personally wouldn't want one. My main issue is the control system, where lots of basic operations needs to be carried out on a touch screen. I'm not just talking about media and heater controls, but functions as basic as adjusting windscreen wiper speeds.
If I were going to buy an EV, I'd want it to work the same way a normal car does, and have as many physical controls as possible. The EV that attracts me the most is the Porsche Taycan, and that uses too many touchscreen controls for my taste. But at least the wiper controls don't require the eyes to be off the road.
Also, beware of the cost of replacement batteries. A Finnish chap blew up his model S in protest after being told he'd need to spend £17,000 to replace the battery.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-u...
You didn't drive a model S then as wipers are controlled by the stalk in manual mode (auto is not great admittedly). Just use voice controls for most actions. Heater, lights etc are auto so I don't see why you would need to constantly fiddle. Battery failures are rare and all UK cars are within warranty, once they get old enough to require aftermarket support the learning will have been done in the US and fixes will be massively cheaper, normally caused by a faulty module at worst, most of it is labour..If I were going to buy an EV, I'd want it to work the same way a normal car does, and have as many physical controls as possible. The EV that attracts me the most is the Porsche Taycan, and that uses too many touchscreen controls for my taste. But at least the wiper controls don't require the eyes to be off the road.
Also, beware of the cost of replacement batteries. A Finnish chap blew up his model S in protest after being told he'd need to spend £17,000 to replace the battery.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-u...
LunarOne said:
ricola said:
LunarOne said:
Your autotrader link doesn't work, but I've driven a Model S and I personally wouldn't want one. My main issue is the control system, where lots of basic operations needs to be carried out on a touch screen. I'm not just talking about media and heater controls, but functions as basic as adjusting windscreen wiper speeds.
If I were going to buy an EV, I'd want it to work the same way a normal car does, and have as many physical controls as possible. The EV that attracts me the most is the Porsche Taycan, and that uses too many touchscreen controls for my taste. But at least the wiper controls don't require the eyes to be off the road.
Also, beware of the cost of replacement batteries. A Finnish chap blew up his model S in protest after being told he'd need to spend £17,000 to replace the battery.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-u...
You didn't drive a model S then as wipers are controlled by the stalk in manual mode (auto is not great admittedly). Just use voice controls for most actions. Heater, lights etc are auto so I don't see why you would need to constantly fiddle. Battery failures are rare and all UK cars are within warranty, once they get old enough to require aftermarket support the learning will have been done in the US and fixes will be massively cheaper, normally caused by a faulty module at worst, most of it is labour..If I were going to buy an EV, I'd want it to work the same way a normal car does, and have as many physical controls as possible. The EV that attracts me the most is the Porsche Taycan, and that uses too many touchscreen controls for my taste. But at least the wiper controls don't require the eyes to be off the road.
Also, beware of the cost of replacement batteries. A Finnish chap blew up his model S in protest after being told he'd need to spend £17,000 to replace the battery.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-u...
Unfortunately a new Tesla (S or 3) are out of my budget (I'm not a powerfully built company director), the tech issues combined with the appetite for the more traditional parts (suspension for example) probably means I'll look elsewhere, maybe a few more years and the after market support will be there, I know there are companies in the UK and the EU doing battery swaps for Nissan Leafs.
A lot of over-dramatisation on this thread. I've owned my 2015 Model S 85 since new - now has 76,000 miles. I think it drives better than most cars of this mileage. Things to be aware of:
- many improvements were introduced from late 2014
- early motors can start whining, but should have been replaced under warranty by now (design issue with bearings getting magnetised)
- early MCUs had too little memory and are only 3G. Should be upgraded now (paid by Tesla) and ideally to 4G/LTE.
- central screen can go yellow around the edges - possibly repairable, but new screen and MCU is around £1,100
- auto parking brake can need servicing
Air suspension (optional) is good. Headlights are fine and auto-high beam is excellent. Tesla technology ages much less than other cars because the software auto-updates. Model S build quality is "OK" (probably better than an early Model 3) - typically American in that it is a bit sloppy in places, but does hold together over time.
WBAC values mine in the upper £20s.
- many improvements were introduced from late 2014
- early motors can start whining, but should have been replaced under warranty by now (design issue with bearings getting magnetised)
- early MCUs had too little memory and are only 3G. Should be upgraded now (paid by Tesla) and ideally to 4G/LTE.
- central screen can go yellow around the edges - possibly repairable, but new screen and MCU is around £1,100
- auto parking brake can need servicing
Air suspension (optional) is good. Headlights are fine and auto-high beam is excellent. Tesla technology ages much less than other cars because the software auto-updates. Model S build quality is "OK" (probably better than an early Model 3) - typically American in that it is a bit sloppy in places, but does hold together over time.
WBAC values mine in the upper £20s.
c2mike said:
A lot of over-dramatisation on this thread. I've owned my 2015 Model S 85 since new - now has 76,000 miles.
What's the DC charging curve like now compared to new?? All the reports I've seen + own experience with loaners show a dramatically reduced charging speed. Our 75D X currently charges faster than 85 packs S cars Yes it is now slower at higher charge levels - but still quite fast enough. I never did get the 120+kW speeds even when new. Did a trip to Scotland recently (more than 800 miles total) and I guess charging wait times were a bit longer than a new one, but when compared to other 2015 EVs it is still good. Long term battery health is more important than saving a few minutes a few times a year.
I have a model 3 performance but had a model a p90d courtesy car for about two weeks to resolve delivery defects. I think it was four years old and felt like it had suffered a hard life.
I didn’t get it - it felt so old fashioned to drive. I had gone from a 635d so have had a “barge” but this felt driving a very old jaguar or similar and not in a good way. I was so glad to get back into my model 3 which feels so much more modern and nice to drive.
I didn’t get it - it felt so old fashioned to drive. I had gone from a 635d so have had a “barge” but this felt driving a very old jaguar or similar and not in a good way. I was so glad to get back into my model 3 which feels so much more modern and nice to drive.
c2mike said:
A lot of over-dramatisation on this thread. I've owned my 2015 Model S 85 since new - now has 76,000 miles. I think it drives better than most cars of this mileage. Things to be aware of:
- many improvements were introduced from late 2014
- early motors can start whining, but should have been replaced under warranty by now (design issue with bearings getting magnetised)
- early MCUs had too little memory and are only 3G. Should be upgraded now (paid by Tesla) and ideally to 4G/LTE.
- central screen can go yellow around the edges - possibly repairable, but new screen and MCU is around £1,100
- auto parking brake can need servicing
Air suspension (optional) is good. Headlights are fine and auto-high beam is excellent. Tesla technology ages much less than other cars because the software auto-updates. Model S build quality is "OK" (probably better than an early Model 3) - typically American in that it is a bit sloppy in places, but does hold together over time.
WBAC values mine in the upper £20s.
That car doesn’t have ‘Tesla technology’, it’s doesn’t really have any technology, yours has the Mobileye hardware which is common in many cars and does the auto high beam etc but the car listed doesn’t have that.- many improvements were introduced from late 2014
- early motors can start whining, but should have been replaced under warranty by now (design issue with bearings getting magnetised)
- early MCUs had too little memory and are only 3G. Should be upgraded now (paid by Tesla) and ideally to 4G/LTE.
- central screen can go yellow around the edges - possibly repairable, but new screen and MCU is around £1,100
- auto parking brake can need servicing
Air suspension (optional) is good. Headlights are fine and auto-high beam is excellent. Tesla technology ages much less than other cars because the software auto-updates. Model S build quality is "OK" (probably better than an early Model 3) - typically American in that it is a bit sloppy in places, but does hold together over time.
WBAC values mine in the upper £20s.
The headlight bulbs are undersized, there is no argument about that, it’s a simple fact.
There was a video shown on TV news this morning of a guy in Finland blowing up his Tesla with dynamite in a quarry - with efigy of Elon Musk on board. The customer had been quoted a truly absurd price for repairs to his battery.
https://news.sky.com/video/finland-man-blows-up-te...
https://news.sky.com/video/finland-man-blows-up-te...
TheRainMaker said:
This is almost certainly due to cellblock failure, which is probably why the Norwegian owners blew up his. Its probably one of the things that triggered Tesla to reduce rapid charging speeds.Its worth remembering the Roadster 1.0 wasn't without longterm battery issues, with the 1.5 battery 'updated pack' been one of the worst EV battery packs ever made interms of time-related degradation.
We have a 12 year old Mazda 6 is still on its original clutch let alone needing £15k+ worth of essentially engine rebuild because of inherent design flaws.
Tesla really should do the right thing and replace ALL the 85 packs with new packs. Elon probably wouldn't even notice the change in his bank account, instead, Tesla has choosen to use every trick possible to wash their hands of the battery pack issues.
TheRainMaker said:
Just realised the same Model S that broke down in this video had its battery 'repaired' previously by one of the few companies in the US that claim they can do cell block replacements on a Tesla battery. As saying goes, 'Buy it cheap, buy it twice'. Once the battery packs go on these cars there is no option but to poney up the cash Tesla want for a new battery pack.
https://youtu.be/T7Q0nNkQTCo
pghstochaj said:
I have a model 3 performance but had a model a p90d courtesy car for about two weeks to resolve delivery defects. I think it was four years old and felt like it had suffered a hard life.
I didn’t get it - it felt so old fashioned to drive. I had gone from a 635d so have had a “barge” but this felt driving a very old jaguar or similar and not in a good way. I was so glad to get back into my model 3 which feels so much more modern and nice to drive.
Nailed it. My Model 3 was called into service when the computer said it couldn't find the charging point. They gave me an S 75 as a courtesy car. It took nearly an hour to go from 155-210 miles on a Supercharger!I didn’t get it - it felt so old fashioned to drive. I had gone from a 635d so have had a “barge” but this felt driving a very old jaguar or similar and not in a good way. I was so glad to get back into my model 3 which feels so much more modern and nice to drive.
I loved the ride (air suspension) which was far more compliant than the jittery Model 3 LR I have. The S75 feels like a first generation car, it is not fast, and if you pull out with gusto onto a sharp right hand turn, it understeers with abandon. By comparison the Model 3 is very well planted and flickable and the handling in general is quite sharp.
I loved the indicator stalks on the S though.. not hard to do and one of the biggest criticisms I have with the Model 3.
Would I consider a 2015 Model S with free supercharging for life? Hell yes!
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