New Tesla 4680 380Wh/kg cell
Discussion
Looks a very impressive jump, up from the previous 2170 cell 250Wh/kg.
Other cost and performance improvements to.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/22/everything-yo...
Other cost and performance improvements to.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/22/everything-yo...
Yes,
Whilst I am sure other battery makers will have similar progress... I thought what Tesla presented seemed like proper sensible stuff to be working on and if what they claim from the improvements comes true then its a great step forward. I think everyone else was just expecting some kind of Steve Jobs "One more thing...." moment and were disappointed.
Interesting to see if they can pull off their plans with the casting. I do wonder what that might mean if you have a prang and you damage the casting, thats a big chunk to replace! Also how they will QC these things for internal voids, hairline cracks etc. Maybe they will make the Giga-Ray massive X-Ray machine for this.
But yeah, I was quite buoyed by the presentation.
ETA: Apparently they do their cell nomenclature wrong. It should be 21700 and 46800... diameter, height, shape. The last zero tells you its a cylinder. Super nitpicking but PH, Pedantry Matters.
Whilst I am sure other battery makers will have similar progress... I thought what Tesla presented seemed like proper sensible stuff to be working on and if what they claim from the improvements comes true then its a great step forward. I think everyone else was just expecting some kind of Steve Jobs "One more thing...." moment and were disappointed.
Interesting to see if they can pull off their plans with the casting. I do wonder what that might mean if you have a prang and you damage the casting, thats a big chunk to replace! Also how they will QC these things for internal voids, hairline cracks etc. Maybe they will make the Giga-Ray massive X-Ray machine for this.
But yeah, I was quite buoyed by the presentation.
ETA: Apparently they do their cell nomenclature wrong. It should be 21700 and 46800... diameter, height, shape. The last zero tells you its a cylinder. Super nitpicking but PH, Pedantry Matters.
In 3 years time, and even if it were available today it would still not be all that competitive with e.g. LG pouch cells for cost/capacity ratio.
For some reason Tesla are obsessed with cylindrical cells. They cost more, have lower energy density and weigh more. The only advantage is performance so I guess they are not really interested in affordable cars. Considering that the $35k Model 3 turned out to be a lie I expect the $25k Tesla is as well.
For some reason Tesla are obsessed with cylindrical cells. They cost more, have lower energy density and weigh more. The only advantage is performance so I guess they are not really interested in affordable cars. Considering that the $35k Model 3 turned out to be a lie I expect the $25k Tesla is as well.
aestetix1 said:
In 3 years time, and even if it were available today it would still not be all that competitive with e.g. LG pouch cells for cost/capacity ratio.
For some reason Tesla are obsessed with cylindrical cells. They cost more, have lower energy density and weigh more. The only advantage is performance so I guess they are not really interested in affordable cars. Considering that the $35k Model 3 turned out to be a lie I expect the $25k Tesla is as well.
Is it that cylindrical cells allow cooling between them?For some reason Tesla are obsessed with cylindrical cells. They cost more, have lower energy density and weigh more. The only advantage is performance so I guess they are not really interested in affordable cars. Considering that the $35k Model 3 turned out to be a lie I expect the $25k Tesla is as well.
aestetix1 said:
Considering that the $35k Model 3 turned out to be a lie I expect the $25k Tesla is as well.
In what way was the $35k Tesla a lie? That was/is literally the price of the base model and loads of youtubers bought and reviewed that exact one.Are you seriously suggesting you thought the top end loaded version of the car would be $35k?
jjwilde said:
In what way was the $35k Tesla a lie? That was/is literally the price of the base model and loads of youtubers bought and reviewed that exact one.
Are you seriously suggesting you thought the top end loaded version of the car would be $35k?
US prices are always a bit odd as they are without VAT.Are you seriously suggesting you thought the top end loaded version of the car would be $35k?
This makes sense to them as every state has different VAT, some even have none (Oregon).
But yes, the 35k Model 3 was real. The lowest that's on sale now is 38k, which is close enough I guess. Pretty well equipped as well at that price.
gmaz said:
Is it that cylindrical cells allow cooling between them?
Not really, the space between is only filled with air. With pouch cells they can either leave an air gap or put water circulation in there. The shape lends itself to drawing away heat through large contact surfaces, unlike cylindrical cells.jjwilde said:
In what way was the $35k Tesla a lie? That was/is literally the price of the base model and loads of youtubers bought and reviewed that exact one.
It was the old "locked filing cabinet in the basement with a beware of the leopard sign" tactic. You had to phone them and special order it, and they never actually made the cheaper model they just software gimped an SR+ and kept the volume low enough to not bother with things like the cheaper interior. And then jacked the price up anyway.And it was never sold outside the US either. Never been available in the UK. A lot of people pre-ordered when it was announced as a "£27k Tesla" (based on exchange rates at the time) but turned out to be £40k.
Remember that time Musk tried to claim it had been released when it was only $35k after incentives? He's a slippery bugger.
aestetix1 said:
Remember that time Musk tried to claim it had been released when it was only $35k after incentives? He's a slippery bugger.
You really like to nitpick, right?The cheapest Model 3 now is 38k before incentives. That's ignoring the one you had to make a phone call for. Imagine that... having to make a phone call to get a car that's 8% cheaper? The audacity of that guy.
It'll never be enough for some people. Even if that was 35k, people would be like "yes, but it takes 5 seconds to get to 100km/h!" or "It costs 45k $ in Sri Lanka!".
If other automotive CEO's delivered on their promises like Musk does, maybe they would have a trillion dollar company.
So by his previous "lies", his 25k car will never happen and will be a 27k car, unless you are willing to make a phone call. Damn lying son of a b
h.Edit: People who think a $35k car will be 27k GBP should be protected by special needs programs from having their money stolen.
Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 1st October 14:12
aestetix1 said:
It was the old "locked filing cabinet in the basement with a beware of the leopard sign" tactic. You had to phone them and special order it, and they never actually made the cheaper model they just software gimped an SR+ and kept the volume low enough to not bother with things like the cheaper interior. And then jacked the price up anyway.
And it was never sold outside the US either. Never been available in the UK. A lot of people pre-ordered when it was announced as a "£27k Tesla" (based on exchange rates at the time) but turned out to be £40k.
Remember that time Musk tried to claim it had been released when it was only $35k after incentives? He's a slippery bugger.
US pricing is always before sales tax so there was never a 27k Tesla - you can't help people that don;t understand the difference. 27k quickly becomes And it was never sold outside the US either. Never been available in the UK. A lot of people pre-ordered when it was announced as a "£27k Tesla" (based on exchange rates at the time) but turned out to be £40k.
Remember that time Musk tried to claim it had been released when it was only $35k after incentives? He's a slippery bugger.
27k + 10% for European import duties + 20% vat = 36k. Still not 40k but a lot closer
I'd agree that the SR never really existed, the reviewers all went out their way to force the issue and they all seemed to get SR+ cars. Canada I believe also forced them to offer it for compliance reasons. I imagine in the US if you ordered one you might get one in 6 months or so when they get round to making a handful of them.
aestetix1 said:
It was the old "locked filing cabinet in the basement with a beware of the leopard sign" tactic. You had to phone them and special order it
So it did exist then? So you were lying? It's as if you have an agenda...Weird how you call Musk a liar (etc) yet you are literally lying right here on this forum.
Heres Johnny said:
27k + 10% for European import duties + 20% vat = 36k. Still not 40k but a lot closer
Remember that at the time Tesla vehicles didn't pay the 10% duty because they were re-assembled in the EU, from memory it was in The Netherlands. They decided not to do that with the Model 3 so it got hit with the 10% duty.Anyway people were expecting it to be around £33k in the UK.
jjwilde said:
So it did exist then? So you were lying?
Go back and read it. All they did was try their best to sell as few as possible, and when forced to shipped an SR+ with software limited battery but all the other upgrades like the better interior and sound system.The version they said they would produce at $35k with the cheaper interior and reduced spec never existed, they never made any.
aestetix1 said:
Not really, the space between is only filled with air. With pouch cells they can either leave an air gap or put water circulation in there. The shape lends itself to drawing away heat through large contact surfaces, unlike cylindrical cells.
The article linked in the first post says that the voids are filled with epoxy which makes the battery pack strong enough to be used as a structural member.According to Sandy Munro it's also more about how the pack can be constructed and manufactured using the new cells, he does a mock-up to explain
https://youtu.be/GkQga-mzO4Y?t=59
https://youtu.be/GkQga-mzO4Y?t=59
I too have seen the Munro video on youtube. Regarding the new cells packaging: filling the voids with epoxy will make a very strong slab, but recycling those battery packs will be even less financially viable. I know EV makers are businesses, but surely they need to think a bit greener.
Europa Jon said:
I too have seen the Munro video on youtube. Regarding the new cells packaging: filling the voids with epoxy will make a very strong slab, but recycling those battery packs will be even less financially viable. I know EV makers are businesses, but surely they need to think a bit greener.
This is what I was alluding to earlier. How reparable are these packs, let alone recycling?Gassing Station | Tesla | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff