Tesla’s not energy efficient?

Tesla’s not energy efficient?

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jason61c

Original Poster:

5,978 posts

181 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
Interesting read here

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-ranked-last-for...

Ignoring all out range, seems the model 3 and model 3 p aren’t very efficient?

SWoll

19,167 posts

265 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
It's a Polestar backed study that's testing EPA range claims rather than actual efficiency? The fact that the ETron comes top on that list should probably have confirmed that as renowned for being one of the least efficient EV's.

Plenty of places to get independently tested actual efficiency figures. Have a look and report back on how Tesla do?

SWoll

19,167 posts

265 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
Quite. They also tested the least efficient Model 3 (Performance) and it still went considerably further than the other vehicles despite having the smallest battery on test.

Would have been even more of a gap had they done the test properly and used an LR with comparable power output to the other vehicles



You have to wonder why they bothered posting the above as unless you are completely blinkered it doesn't show the P2 in a very good light? 30 miles less range than the Performance model 3 in standard trim, almost 40 less with the PP and I'd suggest at least 50-60 miles less than than the LR had they tested it?

Edited by SWoll on Saturday 15th August 09:03

jason61c

Original Poster:

5,978 posts

181 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
It’s designed to show actual energy usage at motorway speed. The polestar doesn’t even come out tops, however they still publish it. Backs up the big which/whatcar test results?

gangzoom

6,776 posts

222 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
jason61c said:
Interesting read here

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-ranked-last-for...

Ignoring all out range, seems the model 3 and model 3 p aren’t very efficient?
The article should read 'Tesla have gamed the EPA test routine better than anyone else'.

Teslas are efficient at M way speeds, our X is MORE efficient at 70mph than my old Leaf, but over the years Tesla have managed to develop a secret sauce to really push up EPA range despite not much real life increase in efficiency at Mway speeds.

Real life data shows the current 'Raven' X is actually no more efficient than a 2017 X at 80mph despite what Tesla claim.

This report simply show the real life difference in M way of a Tesla versus EPA rating. Other manufacturers are yet to figure out how to game the EPA system so their real life M way range is very similar to their EPA range.

SWoll

19,167 posts

265 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
jason61c said:
It’s designed to show actual energy usage at motorway speed. The polestar doesn’t even come out tops, however they still publish it. Backs up the big which/whatcar test results?
Not what you suggest in your OP?

jason61c said:
Interesting read here

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-ranked-last-for...

Ignoring all out range, seems the model 3 and model 3 p aren’t very efficient?
Which you agree is very obviously incorrect based on the table above?

JD

2,893 posts

235 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
Surely this is a huge own goal by Polestar?

They have published a study that says their new car can’t do anywhere close to 200 miles between motorway stops In absolute perfect conditions!


gangzoom

6,776 posts

222 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
JD said:
Surely this is a huge own goal by Polestar?

They have published a study that says their new car can’t do anywhere close to 200 miles between motorway stops In absolute perfect conditions!
Polestar 2 has 78kWh battery, our much bigger Model X has a 75kWh. I've just done 160 miles yesterday with a bike on the back at 65-70mph where possible with 20% SOC left, so 200 miles 100-0%.

Tesla is far ahead of the competition interms of efficiency (excluding the Koreans), but they have gamed EPA test routine.

SWoll

19,167 posts

265 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
JD said:
Surely this is a huge own goal by Polestar?

They have published a study that says their new car can’t do anywhere close to 200 miles between motorway stops In absolute perfect conditions!
But at least their published figures are slightly more accurate?. smile

What's the betting they also tested an LR but there was no % difference in the results so no good for the purpose of the 'independent study'?

Reminds me of TG altering their drag race to 1/2 mile rather than 1/4 and running lower battery to ensure the C63S beat the m3P. Transparent, but you get called a 'fanboi' when you point it out.

The P2 appears to be a cracking car, silly stuff likes this really isn't needed.

gangzoom said:
JD said:
Surely this is a huge own goal by Polestar?

They have published a study that says their new car can’t do anywhere close to 200 miles between motorway stops In absolute perfect conditions!
Polestar 2 has 78kWh battery, our much bigger Model X has a 75kWh. I've just done 160 miles yesterday with a bike on the back at 65-70mph where possible with 20% SOC left, so 200 miles 100-0%.

Tesla is far ahead of the competition interms of efficiency (excluding the Koreans), but they have gamed EPA test routine.
Koreans are running far lower power figures though in comparison, mostly around 200bhp? Like being surprised a 2.0 Focus is more efficient than a bmw 340i or m4?



Edited by SWoll on Saturday 15th August 09:34

LG9k

446 posts

229 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
SWoll said:
Koreans are running far lower power figures though in comparison, mostly around 200bhp? Like being surprised a 2.0 Focus is more efficient than a bmw 340i or m4?
Is that true electric cars?

I'd have thought that a more powerful electric motor won't be less efficient when producing the same power (which is what's required for the same speed) as a less powerful one.

i.e. two different electric motors only need to produce the same X kW to push along the same car at Y km/h.

It's different of course for piston engines.

SWoll

19,167 posts

265 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
LG9k said:
SWoll said:
Koreans are running far lower power figures though in comparison, mostly around 200bhp? Like being surprised a 2.0 Focus is more efficient than a bmw 340i or m4?
Is that true electric cars?

I'd have thought that a more powerful electric motor won't be less efficient when producing the same power (which is what's required for the same speed) as a less powerful one.

i.e. two different electric motors only need to produce the same X kW to push along the same car at Y km/h.

It's different of course for piston engines.
The fact the m3p has less range than the LR even on 18" wheels and with the same battery and weight would suggest it does make a difference?

Not as much as with ICE I agree but that's my understanding anyway?

kambites

68,437 posts

228 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
LG9k said:
Is that true electric cars?
No it's not really. Electric motor efficiency doesn't drop off at low loads like ICE efficiency. There may be a very minor efficiency drop off but it will be low single figures percentages.

More powerful motors may, of course, be heavier which will have a small effect.

JD

2,893 posts

235 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
jason61c said:
Ignoring all out range, seems the model 3 and model 3 p aren’t very efficient?
But still be nearly 24% more efficient than the polestar?


jason61c

Original Poster:

5,978 posts

181 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
I’d read it again if that’s what you think

jason61c

Original Poster:

5,978 posts

181 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
SWoll said:
JD said:
Surely this is a huge own goal by Polestar?

They have published a study that says their new car can’t do anywhere close to 200 miles between motorway stops In absolute perfect conditions!
But at least their published figures are slightly more accurate?. smile

What's the betting they also tested an LR but there was no % difference in the results so no good for the purpose of the 'independent study'?

Reminds me of TG altering their drag race to 1/2 mile rather than 1/4 and running lower battery to ensure the C63S beat the m3P. Transparent, but you get called a 'fanboi' when you point it out.

The P2 appears to be a cracking car, silly stuff likes this really isn't needed.

gangzoom said:
JD said:
Surely this is a huge own goal by Polestar?

They have published a study that says their new car can’t do anywhere close to 200 miles between motorway stops In absolute perfect conditions!
Polestar 2 has 78kWh battery, our much bigger Model X has a 75kWh. I've just done 160 miles yesterday with a bike on the back at 65-70mph where possible with 20% SOC left, so 200 miles 100-0%.

Tesla is far ahead of the competition interms of efficiency (excluding the Koreans), but they have gamed EPA test routine.
Koreans are running far lower power figures though in comparison, mostly around 200bhp? Like being surprised a 2.0 Focus is more efficient than a bmw 340i or m4?



Edited by SWoll on Saturday 15th August 09:34
That’s got to make sense. It’s going to take more energy to move a mass at a faster speed. Also the model 3 and polestar are 4wd which will reduce things.

I know this is PH, however if there was a 2wd polestar 2 that did 0-60 in 8 seconds but a genuine 300 miles, I’d have that one instead.

FurtiveFreddy

8,577 posts

244 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
OP has a history of bigging up the Polestar (which he would as he's said he's got a lease order in for one) and dissing theTesla.

I don't understand why some people feel the need to try and justify their choice of car by critisicing others.

Maybe he was hoping he could go down the pub and tell all his mates how the Polestar is so much better than all the other BEVs in every way?

Sad.

jason61c

Original Poster:

5,978 posts

181 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
It bugs up the Audi, not the polestar or Tesla.

Just a bit of balance to the Tesla posts here by a few.

I’m only in the game as it’s not costing me anything. If in3 years Tesla/Audi/Kia have something interesting I’ll jump ship again, if it’s still bik free

anonymous-user

61 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
Very odd PR move by polestar. The Tesla is the clear winner by any metric I care about!


Witchfinder

6,250 posts

259 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
The point of this is to demonstrate how Tesla game the EPA system. Their huge range claims make everyone else look bad, but in reality the gap is a lot closer.

gangzoom

6,776 posts

222 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
jason61c said:
I’d read it again if that’s what you think
The authors of the article have no idea what the data they are reporting on shows, none at all.

The Model 3 is still by far the most efficient car and the eTron the worst, the 'efficiency' numbers reported by the article is relative change between real world performance versus EPA ratings, that number is utterly pointless.

All that article really shows is the Model 3 has more real world range versus all the cars tested despite having the smallest battery on test, by definition it's actually the MOST efficient not the least.

Ignore 99% of what internet 'journalists' write about EVs, as its nearly always rubbish and wrong, the article in your link is almost the perfect example. Am surprised any one with even primary school maths skills cannot see error of the conclusion drawn in the article.


Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 15th August 11:54