Discussion
RobDickinson said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
You know something that kinda looks a bit bulky, a bit SUV-ish in photos but in real life are hatchbacks with a mildly higher seating position?
If it's the latter ... Then hot cakes. Everyone likes that style. Even though they're tiny inside! Like reverse TARDIS's.
Its that really, its pretty roomy inside for the class I suspect though.If it's the latter ... Then hot cakes. Everyone likes that style. Even though they're tiny inside! Like reverse TARDIS's.
Its aiming for this huge market
Still if it means healthy sales... You gotta do it. They should have done this first. If they got 400k pre orders for a small saloon....imagine the numbers for one in a shape everyone seems to want!
My only worry is how well the platform will be holding up come 2021 (and by the time we get it here?). I mean by then the underlying design will be getting on a bit and it'll be going up against the MEB.
I know people like to Mack on VW. But if they can pull off with MEB what they did with MQB, they're gonna have every niche filled with cars that are well designed and engineered (without feeling like badge engineering). Can't argue that there approach hasn't been a success and I can't see why it won't work for them again. If they can actually build the numbers needed. They're a tough act to go up against.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 15th March 23:59
Otispunkmeyer said:
They should have done this first. If they got 400k pre orders for a small saloon....imagine the numbers for one in a shape everyone seems to want!
They had to start with low volume and expensive first. The roadster enabled the S. The S paid for the X. That then allowed them to do what they wanted to do all along. Lower cost and mass production.kambites said:
It's pretty rare even for full sized (in the European sense) SUVs to have third-row seats which are usable for adults, let alone relatively compact ones like this.
Exactly, if you want to carry loads of people and stuff get a X. 6 adults is no issue, plenty of room for everyone, plus with the Falcon Wing doors getting in and out at the back is easy.The Y is just a hatchback 3 with a higher roof line. Simple physics tells you there is no way the Y is going to accommodate 6 adults in anything close to comfort.
I suspect the 3rd row is a bit like the rear 'seats' in a TT.
Dull and boring is all I can say about the Y, you might as well buy a Kia Nero EV and save the cash. Looking at RHD timeframes am pretty sure your get the Kia before the Y if you ordered today.
But people do care alot about the badge of the car, and Tesla now already had beaten Kia for badge snobbery, which why am 100% certain when the time comes for my wife to replace her Lexus she'll pick the Y over the Kia.
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 16th March 05:10
gangzoom said:
Exactly, if you want to carry loads of people and stuff get a X. 6 adults is no issue, plenty of room for everyone, plus with the Falcon Wing doors getting in and out at the back is easy.
The Y is just a hatchback 3 with a higher roof line. Simple physics tells you there is no way the Y is going to accommodate 6 adults in anything close to comfort.
I suspect the 3rd row is a bit like the rear 'seats' in a TT.]
So at the launch he gets 6 adults to climb out the car to give the impression of something it’s not, it’s part of his typical subliminal messages that’s really a con, you see 6 adults, you’re told it’s a 7 seater... Most sports cars with two largely unusable rear sears are called a 2+2, I think we have a 5+2 car here. The Y is just a hatchback 3 with a higher roof line. Simple physics tells you there is no way the Y is going to accommodate 6 adults in anything close to comfort.
I suspect the 3rd row is a bit like the rear 'seats' in a TT.]
If 6 people coming out of the Y is the most exciting thing about the car that sums up the Y.....
Tesla is in serious danger of becoming just another boring corporate led car company, which I know lots of people want, but we have enough boring companies in this world already, we really dont need another.
Tesla is in serious danger of becoming just another boring corporate led car company, which I know lots of people want, but we have enough boring companies in this world already, we really dont need another.
gangzoom said:
If 6 people coming out of the Y is the most exciting thing about the car that sums up the Y.....
Tesla is in serious danger of becoming just another boring corporate led car company, which I know lots of people want, but we have enough boring companies in this world already, we really dont need another.
Couldn't disagree more.Tesla is in serious danger of becoming just another boring corporate led car company, which I know lots of people want, but we have enough boring companies in this world already, we really dont need another.
I think our starting point though is probably similar - I would like to see EVs become the dominant method of powering cars as quickly as possible.
So as well as the much-needed improvements to the charging system, which you have previously well described, we also need the cost of the vehicles to reduce dramatically. And that requires the continued gradual reduction in battery costs.
All the time battery packs are costing well over $100 /kWh, the market for EVs is restricted to mostly luxury/expensive cars. And the main ways to reduce battery costs is to scale up production and for more competition.
So I see Model Y as potentially adding 300k+ cars per year to Tesla's production volumes, which will help them, and in the longer term help others, reduces battery pack costs,
EddieSteadyGo said:
Couldn't disagree more.
I think our starting point though is probably similar - I would like to see EVs become the dominant method of powering cars as quickly as possible.
Am not saying the Y wouldn't sell, or it's a bad car. But compared to how innovative Tesla has been in the past, the Y is pretty lame.I think our starting point though is probably similar - I would like to see EVs become the dominant method of powering cars as quickly as possible.
Am pretty sure my wife is going go for the Y over a Model 3, that still doesn't stop me thinking the Y is by far the least innovative product Tesla has produced to date.
gangzoom said:
Am not saying the Y wouldn't sell, or it's a bad car. But compared to how innovative Tesla has been in the past, the Y is pretty lame.
Am pretty sure my wife is going go for the Y over a Model 3, that still doesn't stop me thinking the Y is by far the least innovative product Tesla has produced to date.
I should probably say, I don't care whether Tesla lasts in the long term. I see it is a trojan horse to get the industry to change at a much quicker pace than it otherwise would. Am pretty sure my wife is going go for the Y over a Model 3, that still doesn't stop me thinking the Y is by far the least innovative product Tesla has produced to date.
So the value in my eyes to this new car is to add a nice chunk of volume to Tesla's battery production volumes, and so gives them the leeway to try and find more ways to reduce battery costs.
gangzoom said:
Exactly, if you want to carry loads of people and stuff get a X. 6 adults is no issue, plenty of room for everyone, plus with the Falcon Wing doors getting in and out at the back is easy.
The Y is just a hatchback 3 with a higher roof line. Simple physics tells you there is no way the Y is going to accommodate 6 adults in anything close to comfort.
I suspect the 3rd row is a bit like the rear 'seats' in a TT.
Dull and boring is all I can say about the Y, you might as well buy a Kia Nero EV and save the cash. Looking at RHD timeframes am pretty sure your get the Kia before the Y if you ordered today.
But people do care alot about the badge of the car, and Tesla now already had beaten Kia for badge snobbery, which why am 100% certain when the time comes for my wife to replace her Lexus she'll pick the Y over the Kia.
Tesla still have an enigmatic quality as a brand, but I can't help but feel that as time goes on and the usual suspects get really into EV that it's not going to count for much.The Y is just a hatchback 3 with a higher roof line. Simple physics tells you there is no way the Y is going to accommodate 6 adults in anything close to comfort.
I suspect the 3rd row is a bit like the rear 'seats' in a TT.
Dull and boring is all I can say about the Y, you might as well buy a Kia Nero EV and save the cash. Looking at RHD timeframes am pretty sure your get the Kia before the Y if you ordered today.
But people do care alot about the badge of the car, and Tesla now already had beaten Kia for badge snobbery, which why am 100% certain when the time comes for my wife to replace her Lexus she'll pick the Y over the Kia.
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 16th March 05:10
I was (still sortof am) Interested in buying a Model 3 Performance when it comes out but I must admit watching videos of it the interior and particularly the steering wheel is pretty shocking. If it ends up being ~£60k then I think it's going to be tough to swallow. The BMW i3 by contrast, for example, does the whole minimalism "you're sat in a future car" thing perfectly, whilst also looking bespoke.
I feel like Tesla's lethargy when it comes to European/UK markets is going to cost it in the long term. The likes of Audi, BMW and others are far more agile. They had the jump on these brands announcing the M3 back in 2016, but we're 3 years on with no sign of it over here.
And regards the Y - I've no reason to believe that Tesla would be any faster getting it over here. There's also the concern that any price you pay, for the car or the options, could change dramatically overnight seemingly on a whim. Just look at the bath 2018+ Model S owners took. Some of them are still trying to sell their year old cars for as much as the current list price.
Durzel said:
Tesla still have an enigmatic quality as a brand, but I can't help but feel that as time goes on and the usual suspects get really into EV that it's not going to count for much.
Etron, $74,800, range 248, 2.6 miles per kWh, 0-60 5.5s,140 mph , 150kw chargingiPace, $69500, range 234, 2.6 miles per kWh, 0-60 4.5s,124mph, 100kw charging
Model Y,$60,000, range 280, 3.73 miles per kWh,0-60 3.5s,150mph, 250kw charging
big auto still has some way to go.
The Audi and Jag actually exist and are available to buy, the Model Y doesn't exist other than a test mule and a static display both at the launch event.
Production won't start until late next year at the earliest. In Tesla speak that'll most likely translate to 2021 deliveries in the USA.
That's pretty disappointing given the hype building up to this "launch" but as you say, the legacy manufacturers have a lot of catching up to do.
Production won't start until late next year at the earliest. In Tesla speak that'll most likely translate to 2021 deliveries in the USA.
That's pretty disappointing given the hype building up to this "launch" but as you say, the legacy manufacturers have a lot of catching up to do.
gangzoom said:
If 6 people coming out of the Y is the most exciting thing about the car that sums up the Y.....
Tesla is in serious danger of becoming just another boring corporate led car company, which I know lots of people want, but we have enough boring companies in this world already, we really dont need another.
That’s exactly what Tesla is. Gone are the days when they can tell fantastic tales of the future and get endless investment money to fund the dream. End of Q4 they became a normal company that needs to make money. The normal rules of the world apply. This reveal was very boring by start-up rules but Tesla isn’t a start-up any more. Their volume Y is going to appear on the shelves after other companies who have taken a different route to market but all of them are playing by the same rules as all of them need to deliver profits. Tesla is in serious danger of becoming just another boring corporate led car company, which I know lots of people want, but we have enough boring companies in this world already, we really dont need another.
This risk Tesla has over the other boring mass production car companies is that they have a legion of acolytes who could turn vengeful at the total betrayal and refusal to understand how the world or business works.
DonkeyApple said:
This risk Tesla has over the other boring mass production car companies is that they have a legion of acolytes who could turn vengeful at the total betrayal and refusal to understand how the world or business works.
You never answered my question about capitalism, is making a profit the end aim of it all??gangzoom said:
DonkeyApple said:
This risk Tesla has over the other boring mass production car companies is that they have a legion of acolytes who could turn vengeful at the total betrayal and refusal to understand how the world or business works.
You never answered my question about capitalism, is making a profit the end aim of it all??Boring product reveals, marketing deceptions, dubious corporate accounting, tactless axing of employees, the exploiting of employees through promises of future riches, a figurehead who wants to be the richest man in the world, shareholders who want to be even richer, consumers who want to validate their consumption. It’s all Trump Towers with a different marketing spin.
Whether there is anything right or wrong is a separate debate but to try and deny what an entity is is just silly and pointless if not plain naive.
Smiljan said:
The Audi and Jag actually exist and are available to buy, the Model Y doesn't exist other than a test mule and a static display both at the launch event.
Production won't start until late next year at the earliest. In Tesla speak that'll most likely translate to 2021 deliveries in the USA.
That's pretty disappointing given the hype building up to this "launch" but as you say, the legacy manufacturers have a lot of catching up to do.
The i-Pace delivery time is currently being quoted at 6-12 months. So you can buy one, but you won't get it for a while.Production won't start until late next year at the earliest. In Tesla speak that'll most likely translate to 2021 deliveries in the USA.
That's pretty disappointing given the hype building up to this "launch" but as you say, the legacy manufacturers have a lot of catching up to do.
No idea about the Audi. Are they on UK roads yet?
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