M400 good for 190 + MPH

[madmax2000]

Anybody heard anything ?

[rico]

I was under the impression that the aerodynamics of the M12 would have to be improved dramatically to get any increase on the top speeds currently enjoyed by M12 3R owners...

So by just increasing the horsepower of the M12 isn't going to let it beat the 190mph barrier... unless they change the aerodynamics.

Anyone know anything more?

[joust]

It's a cubed law, and hence to increase the speed by just 10% you need around 33% additional power.

i.e. if the M400 had around 100bhp over the standard car, you'd expect the top speed to go up by around 15%.

By talking about relative speeds it removes the worry about if a shape is aerodynamic or not.

J

[joust]

Oh - you can find the maths here

www.pumaracing.co.uk/topspeed.htm

[mb1]

I doubt the M400 will achieve 190mph.

The 3R was seen to reach 170mph on track. With 354bhp and assuming 12% drive train and roll resistance power loss, it means the 3R has a Cx of about 0.46.

With the same aerodynamics, the M400 will need exactly 500bhp to reach 190mph.

MB

[madmax2000]

But I thought it was a different car with a race set up and geared specifically for track use with a different more aerodynamic shape, hence achieving 190+ and costing in the region of £70k all in.
If a 3R costs £57K with full options Noble would have to sell the M400 approx £20K more so as not to affect the 3R market? Any comments

[Marlon]

madmax2000 said:

with a different more aerodynamic shape

That's news to me. The factory are quite understandably not releasing much detail before the motorshow, but everything I've heard says that the shape of the M12 will be largely preserved. You'll find out soon enough.

madmax2000 said:

Noble would have to sell the M400 approx £20K more so as not to affect the 3R market?

It's a different package - probably not attractive to the majority of owners who want a fast road machine. Whether the price is higher, lower or about the same, I'm sure Noble will have analysed their market carefully. Don't worry about it.

[kj-r]

Where can you do 170 on a British track with a Road car ? let alone 190, what's all that about ? Surely the point of the M400 is fast as in lap time not as in outright top speed !
All this speculation is pointless anyway just wait for Noble to release the info when they are ready.
Kevin

>> Edited by kj-r on Monday 8th March 10:09

>> Edited by kj-r on Monday 8th March 10:10

[amg merc]

For what its worth :-), my feeling on the upcoming "M400" (the unofficial name!):

- 3R body.
- 400-440 BHP (yes, that's all!) with tunsa torque!
- baffled sump.
- no soundproofing or leather trim!
- revised suspension and brakes.
- no radio.
- no a/c (although this'll make it rather warm in there!).
- colours - I wouldn't be surprised if colours are limited to 2-3 factory choice?
- new style road wheels?
- oil pressure/temp gauge (hurrah at last!!!)
- price - no more than £10K on a 3R!

I think this will NOT be a very comfortable road-car - the clutch may be heavier?, brakes squeaky?, hot, noisy cabin, etc.

If positioned correctly, this model won't affect the 3/3R product position.

Unlike some, I CAN wait until the motor show to find out!

[kinetic]

I believe the 400BHP performance pack will be avialable retro fit on 3 Litre models for about 3-4k so I believe that should allay concerns from existing owners about this new car devaluing theirs.

[joust]

Sorry - that's already been clarified by the factory on here - there won't be an upgrade.

J

[amg merc]

kinetic said:

I believe the 400BHP performance pack will be avialable retro fit on 3 Litre models for about 3-4k so I believe that should allay concerns from existing owners about this new car devaluing theirs.

Kinetic, I disagree - I think someone said that Noble won't make this option available on 3R's as it'll devalue the "M400" - you can't have the same/similar power on both or the differecial disappears!

[micknall]

I mentioned in a PH thread a few weeks ago that we will not be issuing any more info about the M400 until next month. So please stop speculating - it's leading to bad cases of misinformation and is misleading to people who are new to the Noble forum.

However, I will clear up a few queries in this thread:

1. Top speed. We have NO official figures yet. The car will, however, produce 425bhp and 390lb ft of torque, so we anticipate that it will hit 180mph - 10mph up on the 3R.

2. I have never stated that the gearing will change for this car, and it won't. The 3R/M400 top gear runs 26.5mph per 1000rpm and so the car will hit its limiter at 190.8mph anyway. We could easily make a car that shatters 200mph, but it is not our priority. Other than knowing that a car can hit the 'Double-Ton', how many people who own a Murcielago, SL55AMG, Enzo etc have actually achieved it? There are no circuits in this country where road cars could achieve more than 180mph with ease, the only places left are test facilities. Even then, you can rule out Mira and Millbrook due to banking. Which probably leaves Bruntingthorpe (Murcielago and GT2 - both 185 max from a flying start. Any more than that and you'd end up as part of a Fiesta at the end of the straight). Okay, so there are autobhans, but I've scared myself at 180 on these before, let alone 200!

3. I have also never stated that there will be bodywork changes - which there will not.

4. No prices yet - but it will be competitive, naturally.

5. No upgrades for 3.0-litre cars. This will not de-value existing cars. On the contrary, we are not keen on flooding the market with 'hot' 3Rs that have been tweaked, because this WILL affect their residuals. Anyway, the M400 IS NOT an upgraded 3R: a lot of re-engineering has gone into the chassis and there will be a number of design features underneath that will not be on the 3R. It will also look VERY different (details to come soon) and will not be mistaken for a 3R.

We are aware of how keen people are to find out more about the M400, but please be patient! We will be releasing NO more information for the time being.

Thank you.

Simon Hucknall
Press Officer
Noble Automotive Ltd.

[KINETIC]

Micknall,

Let me get this clear.

You are prepared to catagorically state that there will be no official factory 400HP upgrade for the existing 3 Ltr car?

I just wish to clarify because I was told by one of your authorised dealerships that this would definately be the case and was even given a price indication for this upgrade! ( I've no intention of saying which dealership I'm talking about!)

Its worth clarifying at this stage because in nine months time when this retro upgrade is launched we can all write into this web site and give you some verbally abuse!

[micknall]

We currently have no plans to offer this upgrade on existing cars. Your information from the dealer was incorrect.

[[e-mail].]

Hi Micknall

I am going to order soon. The 400 sounds like my type of machine.

For some strage reason, I tend to go for the extreme.

However, I have a wife.

Question 1, and prob the only one.

% chance over the 3R of a dicorce?

Question 2,

I have to wait at least 6 months, so should I go for the 400 or stay with the 3r.

I also add, I am not interested in speculation, I will have a Noble, just want to make the correct descision, your advice gratefully accepted.

[micknall]

Horses for courses, Ashley.

The M400 will be more expensive than the 3R, though we have not nailed down a price quite yet. It will also be a more competent car on a race circuit than the 3R - better body control, more grip, different power and torque characteristics. Oh yeah, and a lot more power and torque, too!

The 3R, on the other hand, will remain a better all-round package for road use. It has more supple suspension than the M400 and more torque from low down in the rev range. It also has tyres that will cope better with adverse weather conditions, and lost longer in the process. And if colours and trim are important to you (or your wife), then the 3R's trim and exterior paint range will be more comprehensive.

Hope this helps!

Simon

[[e-mail].]

micknall said:

Horses for courses, Ashley. The M400 will be more expensive than the 3R, though we have not nailed down a price quite yet. It will also be a more competent car on a race circuit than the 3R - better body control, more grip, different power and torque characteristics. Oh yeah, and a lot more power and torque, too! The 3R, on the other hand, will remain a better all-round package for road use. It has more supple suspension than the M400 and more torque from low down in the rev range. It also has tyres that will cope better with adverse weather conditions, and lost longer in the process. And if colours and trim are important to you (or your wife), then the 3R's trim and exterior paint range will be more comprehensive. Hope this helps! Simon

[[e-mail].]

Oops, getting used to the site.

I am not looking for an everyday motor. It's a toy.

I like to have the latest, don't we all, and am concerned about residuals. So do I go for the more track biased 400 or the 3R.

I have a Lotus 135R Sport, track biased, at the moment and find it quite easy to live with, so I think a test drive of the 2 will answer my question.

Thanks for the advice Simon. Please could you let me know re a test drive? I will be buying from Gordon Lamb, Sheffield.

Kind regards

Ash.

[craigw]

[quote=kj-r]Where can you do 170 on a British track with a Road car ? let alone 190, what's all that about ?


Erm, I know a place...192mph achieved so far but think that may be beaten this sunday


mach
vmax 15000bhp