Discussion
I was out doing "Ride Drive" today with my 3R. Fantastic day including an hour at an airfield to learn the limits.
During this airfield session we had a go at a timed 0-60. Not being professional, I tried 3 different launches - a 2nd gear start, a 1st gear wheelspin start and a 1st gear fast-but-no-spin start. As you can reach 60 in 2nd gear there is only one gearchange and both times it was quick.
Fastest 0-60 achieved? 4.9 seconds.
How those chaps at magazines get 3.x is beyond me...
During this airfield session we had a go at a timed 0-60. Not being professional, I tried 3 different launches - a 2nd gear start, a 1st gear wheelspin start and a 1st gear fast-but-no-spin start. As you can reach 60 in 2nd gear there is only one gearchange and both times it was quick.
Fastest 0-60 achieved? 4.9 seconds.
How those chaps at magazines get 3.x is beyond me...
Nope.
I've witnessed two "pro"'s doing 0-60's for magazines. One ended in the gearbox ending up on the floor, the second with a car that had all it's gears, just was running on 1:1000 due to a shagged clutch.
An Audi RS2 will beat a McLaren F1 in the 0-30 if you dial up 7000rpm and "sidestep" the clutch. On the 3rd go the whole transmission will let go and end up in a pool of metal, stripped gos and oil on the test track. Dam impressive if you see it done (I'll hunt out the MPG if anyone is interested), but is it reproducable in "real life" with people that actually pay for their cars - err.... no
Stuart - how many rebuilds do you need a week???
J
I've witnessed two "pro"'s doing 0-60's for magazines. One ended in the gearbox ending up on the floor, the second with a car that had all it's gears, just was running on 1:1000 due to a shagged clutch.
An Audi RS2 will beat a McLaren F1 in the 0-30 if you dial up 7000rpm and "sidestep" the clutch. On the 3rd go the whole transmission will let go and end up in a pool of metal, stripped gos and oil on the test track. Dam impressive if you see it done (I'll hunt out the MPG if anyone is interested), but is it reproducable in "real life" with people that actually pay for their cars - err.... no
Stuart - how many rebuilds do you need a week???
J
This is true - figuring a car can be very bad for it, as Simon will no doubt testify from his time on Autocar. We've recently started to take full figures from our long term cars at the end of their lives with us (see the impreza farewell report in this weeks issue) and these are aimed at showing how performance changes as the car loosens up.
Now, all I need to do is persuade Micknall that we should be running a 3R as a long term car so that we can get a definitive real world 0-60 time. As onerous a task as this will no doubt be, I feel it is only fair to our readers that we take this on on their behalfs. I will step bravely forward and volunteer to be the man to take on this horrible job, this cruel and thankless task. Really, it'll hurt me more than it will you, etc. etc.
Micknall?
Now, all I need to do is persuade Micknall that we should be running a 3R as a long term car so that we can get a definitive real world 0-60 time. As onerous a task as this will no doubt be, I feel it is only fair to our readers that we take this on on their behalfs. I will step bravely forward and volunteer to be the man to take on this horrible job, this cruel and thankless task. Really, it'll hurt me more than it will you, etc. etc.
Micknall?
stuart_forrest said:Think there might be a big queue Stuart in front of you.....
Now, all I need to do is persuade Micknall that we should be running a 3R as a long term car so that we can get a definitive real world 0-60 time. As onerous a task as this will no doubt be, I feel it is only fair to our readers that we take this on on their behalfs. I will step bravely forward and volunteer to be the man to take on this horrible job, this cruel and thankless task. Really, it'll hurt me more than it will you, etc. etc.
Micknall?
Stuart is correct in saying that these cars take a hammering when we lend them to the press, when they come backto us they do get a few days of TLC before going out again. However guys i think you will agree with us that once you read the editorial it all seems worth it.
When we do development testing Lee drives the cars as hard as he can so that we can determine when problems can occur. These are extremes that us normal folk never get to but you know how much of a perfectionist lee can be.
As for a long term loan... well we never say never
When we do development testing Lee drives the cars as hard as he can so that we can determine when problems can occur. These are extremes that us normal folk never get to but you know how much of a perfectionist lee can be.
As for a long term loan... well we never say never
0-60. Bah, humbug. It's an increasingly pointless figure in supercar circles, though it's one at which we do seem to excel! You'll notice that AEx's 3.7 run shows a two tenth's improvement over the old GTO. I'd put this down to an improvement in the 3R's torque to weight figure over the GTO, even though it's not massive, and the fact that it's fitted with the ATB diff: torque, traction and technique - that's how you get great 0-60s. This is despite higher gearing in first and second and a little extra weight overall.
However, once off the line, we're convinced you'll see vastly improved in-gear times (AEx have already highlighted how much better the 0-100mph time is in the 3R). Autocar have figured the car, too, and will publish a full set of in-gear figs in an up-coming road test.
As for technique, side-stepping the clutch at max revs in a 4WD RS6 will get you a chirp from the tyres and a 0-30 in 1.7 secs (I kid you not). Try the same launch method in a Noble and it'll reach sixty slower than a 2CV. Best accels in the M12 are achieved with just enough revs to stop it 'bogging-down' but enough to allow some wheelspin in first (but not second). Also, avoid the limiter; max power is produced at 6200rpm, so there's no need to rev it a lot higher than this in each gear. And practice those swift, but smooth, upchanges! As I've mentioned before, though, figuring any car will reduce its drivetrain's life expectancy by a big margin. That's why all manufacturers sacrifice press cars so that owners don't have to!
However, once off the line, we're convinced you'll see vastly improved in-gear times (AEx have already highlighted how much better the 0-100mph time is in the 3R). Autocar have figured the car, too, and will publish a full set of in-gear figs in an up-coming road test.
As for technique, side-stepping the clutch at max revs in a 4WD RS6 will get you a chirp from the tyres and a 0-30 in 1.7 secs (I kid you not). Try the same launch method in a Noble and it'll reach sixty slower than a 2CV. Best accels in the M12 are achieved with just enough revs to stop it 'bogging-down' but enough to allow some wheelspin in first (but not second). Also, avoid the limiter; max power is produced at 6200rpm, so there's no need to rev it a lot higher than this in each gear. And practice those swift, but smooth, upchanges! As I've mentioned before, though, figuring any car will reduce its drivetrain's life expectancy by a big margin. That's why all manufacturers sacrifice press cars so that owners don't have to!
micknall said:
As for technique, side-stepping the clutch at max revs in a 4WD RS6 will get you a chirp from the tyres and a 0-30 in 1.7 secs (I kid you not).
When it was tested in that way the RS2 beat even the mighty McLaren F1, 0-30 in 1.5!!!!! You can find it all here
www.syclone.freeserve.co.uk/rivals_cars.htm
McLaren F1 0-30 is 1.8, Noble M12 is 1,7
The list of "better than F1" is
Porsche 911 Turbo
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII Extreme
Porsche 911 GT2
Subaru Impreza WRX STi
AMG Mercedes 560E Auto
Audi RS2
Caterham R500
Toyota Corolla WRC
Porsche 911 Carrera
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI Extreme
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII
Subaru Impreza P1
Noble M12 GTO
Porsche 911 GT3
Audi RS4
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo V
Mitsubishi 3000 GT
GMC Syclone
Audi S4 Avant
Lotus 340R
Subaru Impreza STi
Subaru Impreza 22B
Subaru Impreza Turbo (New!)
Notice anything about the number of 4WD cars in that list?
Even my Ur Quattro does 0-30 in 2 seconds
J
>> Edited by joust on Wednesday 15th October 13:27
joust said:The contemporary road test described it thus:
Performance Car said:
...and you drop the clutch at 7000rpm, unleashing all 315 horses on those wheels like an anvil gently falling on a piano. We did, and though it makes an ugly noise and nearly folded the car up in the middle, I can tell you this is one mighty strong transmission. If you buy one you too should try it - once.
Oh, and they also hit 60 in 4.8secs (two up, tank of fuel).
joust said:
Look at the link above - there are quite a few standard production cars there.
J
If you look at the link above the RS2 is recorded as having a 1.5 second 0-30 time which is equalled by the 996 GT2 and the new Subaru WRX STI and is bettered by no car on the list.
Anyhoo its all pub talk really i guess. I've always had a soft spot for the RS2, there is a mint condition blue RHD I see in edinburgh regularly and i always pay it a wry smile - a true wolf in sheeps clothing!
Mr Joust - have never really spoken to you before on PH but must say it is always good to hear how you are enjoying your steeds! Only ever seen a noble on a few occassions and they do look and sound fantastic!
Moonie
doh! edited to add the 911 turbo is recorded as 1.4 (i assume this is the 414bhp 996 so heaven only knows what an X50 can do!)
>> Edited by theboymoon on Thursday 16th October 15:43
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