Discussion
Controversial topic, I'm sure, but we may elicit some head-ruled comment in amongst the heart.
Q1) Do you think a Noble (specifically, for the sake of argument, an M12 GTO 3R) is good value for money?
Q2) Do you think J. Public thinks a Noble is good value? Do you think they know what it is, or how much it cost, and do you think they can equate it with, say, a Porsche or Ferarri?
I ask because I have a Noble on order and (if I'm brutally honest) I'm not certain that I want it! Part of my initial desire for the car was A) exclusivity, and B) the 'wow-factor'.
Instead, I've been greeted this Summer (when attending car shows with a Noble-owning friend) with regular comments including, and I quote;
Continued...
Q1) Do you think a Noble (specifically, for the sake of argument, an M12 GTO 3R) is good value for money?
Q2) Do you think J. Public thinks a Noble is good value? Do you think they know what it is, or how much it cost, and do you think they can equate it with, say, a Porsche or Ferarri?
I ask because I have a Noble on order and (if I'm brutally honest) I'm not certain that I want it! Part of my initial desire for the car was A) exclusivity, and B) the 'wow-factor'.
Instead, I've been greeted this Summer (when attending car shows with a Noble-owning friend) with regular comments including, and I quote;
Continued...
Marlon said:
Controversial topic, I'm sure, but we may elicit some head-ruled comment in amongst the heart.
Q1) Do you think a Noble (specifically, for the sake of argument, an M12 GTO 3R) is good value for money?
Q2) Do you think J. Public thinks a Noble is good value? Do you think they know what it is, or how much it cost, and do you think they can equate it with, say, a Porsche or Ferarri?
I ask because I have a Noble on order and (if I'm brutally honest) I'm not certain that I want it! Part of my initial desire for the car was A) exclusivity, and B) the 'wow-factor'.
Instead, I've been greeted this Summer (when attending car shows with a Noble-owning friend) with regular comments including, and I quote;
"Which kit is that then?"
"Did you build it yourself?"
"Has that got a ford engine?" [yes] "Yeah, I thought it would - did you consider a Rover V8?"
"Pah, it's a poor-mans McLaren!" [actualy quite complementary, in some ways]
"50 how much!!! You're kidding, right?"
"Yeah, you can tell it's a kit - look at the interior - he's skimped it a bit."
It seems that very few people know what it is, but they don't associate it with an expensive brand (clearly) which they probably might with a Zonda. The styling (which I personally like) demonstrably brings "kit car" to the mind of your average Joe Soap - and that's not something I like.
Frankly, if I spend 50k+ on a car then I want people to think "gosh, he's spent 50k+ on that car". Sure, I want the exclusivity and there is a good argument about having your cake and eating it, but the balance doesn't seem to be there with Noble.
Discuss.
Combined for ease of use.
>> Edited by tuscansix on Wednesday 10th September 18:13
Marlon said:
Frankly, if I spend 50k+ on a car then I want people to think "gosh, he's spent 50k+ on that car".
With all due respect why do you care what other people think about how much money you have spent? That is the exact same reason some people buy Boxsters, becasue they want people to see they are in a porsche. Any petrolhead will know what it is unless they have been under a rock for the last 2-3 years, people who aren't into cars may not know what it is, question is do you value the opinions of people who have no knowledge on the subject? - if the answer is yes then you may be interested in a fantastic investment opportunity I have for you
Go out and test drive all the cars that appeal to you and that are in your price range, then buy the one that fits your needs best. If those needs are for a car that will make you the envy of people you have never met then the Noble probably isn't for you, if you want the car that puts the biggest grin on your face and makes you take the long way home all the time as well as having decent build quality and supurb factory & dealer support then Noble is where it is at.
>> Edited by m12_nathan on Wednesday 10th September 19:59
>> Edited by m12_nathan on Wednesday 10th September 21:22
I don't know - when I had my Noble, I got a shit load of attention. Most of it was of the 'wow' variety. Not once was I asked whether it was a kit.
They're getting enough coverage in the motoring press / TV these days you know.
Definitely shouldn't be the reason you've chosen the car though, they are far too focused to be bought as a status symbol. You'll only get on with it if you really like to drive.
They're getting enough coverage in the motoring press / TV these days you know.
Definitely shouldn't be the reason you've chosen the car though, they are far too focused to be bought as a status symbol. You'll only get on with it if you really like to drive.
Everywhere I go in my car I get the WOW factor.
To most of the public and if you are really that far up your own arse you could tell them it cost £100k and they would beleive you.
I drove to Imola in my TVR last year with a guy in a Noble and a 355. The wow factor and general attention the car got from the Europeans was astounding, the other two were almost ignored.
I also support Nathan "I always take the long way home"
>> Edited by BROKER on Thursday 11th September 08:46
To most of the public and if you are really that far up your own arse you could tell them it cost £100k and they would beleive you.
I drove to Imola in my TVR last year with a guy in a Noble and a 355. The wow factor and general attention the car got from the Europeans was astounding, the other two were almost ignored.
I also support Nathan "I always take the long way home"
>> Edited by BROKER on Thursday 11th September 08:46
OK. With the exception of LX and Broker who started to make the right kind of noises, I don't think you've picked up on the essence of the question.
For one thing, you all avoided the question of financial value and concentrated on personal value, i.e. what it's worth to you. That's a valid issue, but a grin almost as wide can be generated by a blast in a Cateram or VX220 Turbo (for half the money). If you really ask yourself, I think you'll find that a bigger part of your grin comes from the "wow factor" (as opposed to the driving experience) than you think.
The question is whether Noble has got the balance right; between a product offering financial value, personal satisfaction and enjoyment that cannot be gained elsewhere, and in the public's perception of an ambitious and progressive brand - which IMO is the major factor in whether Noble will become a long-term success.
I'm not "up my arse", neither do I want a Mercedes or a Maserati. Get real! The decision is whether I throw more money at the TVR
For one thing, you all avoided the question of financial value and concentrated on personal value, i.e. what it's worth to you. That's a valid issue, but a grin almost as wide can be generated by a blast in a Cateram or VX220 Turbo (for half the money). If you really ask yourself, I think you'll find that a bigger part of your grin comes from the "wow factor" (as opposed to the driving experience) than you think.
The question is whether Noble has got the balance right; between a product offering financial value, personal satisfaction and enjoyment that cannot be gained elsewhere, and in the public's perception of an ambitious and progressive brand - which IMO is the major factor in whether Noble will become a long-term success.
I'm not "up my arse", neither do I want a Mercedes or a Maserati. Get real! The decision is whether I throw more money at the TVR
Chaps,
I can kind of see the point being Made by Marlon here. I drive a boxster S currently, and have placed an order for R89, which I may/may not be dreaming about when I think it will be here for xmas. Now I faced the same dilemmas as you. Not because (I'd like to think at least) I'm pretentious, but it is awful to think you're spending silly money on something to have people think you built it yourself.Is this really the case?
Mine's closer to 60k with all the bits on it. That's 911 money.
No, I think it's a great car, and as far as I see it, it's half the price it should be for such a piece of machinery, and no, I'm not having second thoughts. I'd just love to hear feedback from other owners as to how the public respond to the car.
And yes while it's a valid point that you shouldn't care what others think about the car it's, the driving experience etc, etc. That holds true to a certain extent, but think about any major purchasing decision you ever made. A certain amount of social acceptance is important. Would you have a noble in white, pink or beige? Why not? It's still the same great car underneath.
I can kind of see the point being Made by Marlon here. I drive a boxster S currently, and have placed an order for R89, which I may/may not be dreaming about when I think it will be here for xmas. Now I faced the same dilemmas as you. Not because (I'd like to think at least) I'm pretentious, but it is awful to think you're spending silly money on something to have people think you built it yourself.Is this really the case?
Mine's closer to 60k with all the bits on it. That's 911 money.
No, I think it's a great car, and as far as I see it, it's half the price it should be for such a piece of machinery, and no, I'm not having second thoughts. I'd just love to hear feedback from other owners as to how the public respond to the car.
And yes while it's a valid point that you shouldn't care what others think about the car it's, the driving experience etc, etc. That holds true to a certain extent, but think about any major purchasing decision you ever made. A certain amount of social acceptance is important. Would you have a noble in white, pink or beige? Why not? It's still the same great car underneath.
mduroe said:
Chaps,
I can kind of see the point being Made by Marlon here...
...Mine's closer to 60k with all the bits on it. That's 911 money.
Glad to hear it. Similarly, I'm (still) planning to up-spec with 6-speed box, track-day sump, and the 385BHP upgrade if it's not silly money.
The comment about the 'major financial purchase' is a useful analogy. What do they say about houses? "Location, location, location!"
Resale is a seperate issue, but kit-car comparisons won't do much for the cause...
So, all things considered, do we think a Noble M12 GTO 3R at close to 60k is good value?
Having in recent years owned a TVR, Porsche and M3 i can safely say that the Noble most definitely is the one that makes the crowds go wild. Witness young kids staring opened mouth as you drive by, grown men who should no better coming over bashfully at filling stations to say "Ooh i've been dying to sit in one of these" - Personally i don't mind this level of attention but the girlfriend hates it. So each to their own.
It also seems to have garnered great respect from the public very quickly and always gets the thumbs up from other exotica and particularly big sports bike - who obviously like a quick race
As regards absolute value than compared to a VXT220 it's probably expensive, but as with all the best things in life, diminishing returns come into play. After all if they were cheap everyone would want one !
However above all these things it just is the most exhilarating driving experience. Even a quick trip to the supermarket now takes in about 20 miles of twisty back roads
- Personally i don't mind this level of attention but the girlfriend hates it. So each to their own. It also seems to have garnered great respect from the public very quickly and always gets the thumbs up from other exotica and particularly big sports bike - who obviously like a quick race
As regards absolute value than compared to a VXT220 it's probably expensive, but as with all the best things in life, diminishing returns come into play. After all if they were cheap everyone would want one !
However above all these things it just is the most exhilarating driving experience. Even a quick trip to the supermarket now takes in about 20 miles of twisty back roads
Marlon
I was not suggesting that you are up your arse, only that as we all know there are people who are and love to blagg it up a bit.
Why are you buying a car. What do you want from it
Q1) Do you think a Noble (specifically, for the sake of argument, an M12 GTO 3R) is good value for money?
YES. What is value for money. The build quality is great and it does not have reliability issues.
Q2) Do you think J. Public thinks a Noble is good value? Do you think they know what it is, or how much it cost, and do you think they can equate it with, say, a Porsche or Ferarri?
Possibly not. BUT what they do know is it is not a Porsche or a Ferrari, thus most will show great enthusiasm in establishing what it is.
The car is a real drivers car. It has WOW. I have £70k
change in my pocket from a Ferrari 360 (Everybodys knows what that is)
In relation to the kit car issue. The build quality far outstrips that of a kit car, only a know nothing twat would ask a silly question, thus they do nor deserve a reply.
Out of interest what are your other options.
Also when you talk about depreciation, its a car were talking about. If you are that worried about losing your money then cars should not be for you. They all loose money
The 2.5 is still low £40k. Not bad for a car 2 years old that was sold originally for £45k
>> Edited by BROKER on Thursday 11th September 11:03
>> Edited by BROKER on Thursday 11th September 11:06
I was not suggesting that you are up your arse, only that as we all know there are people who are and love to blagg it up a bit.
Why are you buying a car. What do you want from it
Q1) Do you think a Noble (specifically, for the sake of argument, an M12 GTO 3R) is good value for money?
YES. What is value for money. The build quality is great and it does not have reliability issues.
Q2) Do you think J. Public thinks a Noble is good value? Do you think they know what it is, or how much it cost, and do you think they can equate it with, say, a Porsche or Ferarri?
Possibly not. BUT what they do know is it is not a Porsche or a Ferrari, thus most will show great enthusiasm in establishing what it is.
The car is a real drivers car. It has WOW. I have £70k
change in my pocket from a Ferrari 360 (Everybodys knows what that is)
In relation to the kit car issue. The build quality far outstrips that of a kit car, only a know nothing twat would ask a silly question, thus they do nor deserve a reply.
Out of interest what are your other options.
Also when you talk about depreciation, its a car were talking about. If you are that worried about losing your money then cars should not be for you. They all loose money
The 2.5 is still low £40k. Not bad for a car 2 years old that was sold originally for £45k
>> Edited by BROKER on Thursday 11th September 11:03
>> Edited by BROKER on Thursday 11th September 11:06
Just to add my thoughts, as to peoples perception of the car and the wow factor, without spending significantly larger sums of money, I don't see there being many alternatives for either individuality and certainly not performance.
What would £50k buy you with a Ferrari? A 7 - 8 year old RHD F355 that will need a large wedge of money in reserve for you to upkeep (and at the end of the day is a 7 or 8 year old car). Or a LHD newer F355 that people will call you a cheap ass for buying LHD. Porsche? Well price wise the only thing you could buy would be a 996 C2 or C4. Sorry, but they are as common as BMW 3 series now, when was the last time you saw anyone looking at a 996 C2 and going 'Wow!' The Noble will always elicit response one way or another, and will draw gazes if that is what you are after. TVR? Again, sorry for me these do not hold any Wow factor either, but that one is just my personal opinion, I can see why peeple would like them though. I don't think people would hold a TVR in higher esteem than a Noble, and they certainly are nowhere near Ferrari in terms of image.
So that leaves spending £120k on a Gallardo or a 360 spider which are really the only cars that people will stop and say Wow at. Thats a big difference in price to the Noble.
The point here is that as far as value for money is concerned, I think you have to say it represents good value for money, as you are getting a brand new car with 0 miles on the clock and to your speification versus buying a second hand Ferrari or similar that is not your spec, and has been owned by a few people before you.
>> Edited by ek993 on Thursday 11th September 11:23
>> Edited by ek993 on Thursday 11th September 11:32
What would £50k buy you with a Ferrari? A 7 - 8 year old RHD F355 that will need a large wedge of money in reserve for you to upkeep (and at the end of the day is a 7 or 8 year old car). Or a LHD newer F355 that people will call you a cheap ass for buying LHD. Porsche? Well price wise the only thing you could buy would be a 996 C2 or C4. Sorry, but they are as common as BMW 3 series now, when was the last time you saw anyone looking at a 996 C2 and going 'Wow!' The Noble will always elicit response one way or another, and will draw gazes if that is what you are after. TVR? Again, sorry for me these do not hold any Wow factor either, but that one is just my personal opinion, I can see why peeple would like them though. I don't think people would hold a TVR in higher esteem than a Noble, and they certainly are nowhere near Ferrari in terms of image.
So that leaves spending £120k on a Gallardo or a 360 spider which are really the only cars that people will stop and say Wow at. Thats a big difference in price to the Noble.
The point here is that as far as value for money is concerned, I think you have to say it represents good value for money, as you are getting a brand new car with 0 miles on the clock and to your speification versus buying a second hand Ferrari or similar that is not your spec, and has been owned by a few people before you.
>> Edited by ek993 on Thursday 11th September 11:23
>> Edited by ek993 on Thursday 11th September 11:32
To add to this I have had people follow me into car parks just to have a chat about the car, others have come up to me and asked if they can have a sit in it and look at the engine. Those who know about cars are really interested in it and I don't care about those that aren't.
>> Edited by m12_nathan on Thursday 11th September 11:48
>> Edited by m12_nathan on Thursday 11th September 11:48
Marlon said:
Q1) Do you think a Noble (specifically, for the sake of argument, an M12 GTO 3R) is good value for money?
Q2) Do you think J. Public thinks a Noble is good value? Do you think they know what it is, or how much it cost, and do you think they can equate it with, say, a Porsche or Ferarri?
1) Cracking value for money because:
a) Is the best drivers car available
b) Bang for buck is immense
c) Has the 'wow factor' of cars twice the money
d) Is well bolted together
e) Lee Noble provides the best customer service I've ever experienced, anywhere, any product.
f) ... we could go on.
2) IMHO this question arrises because Noble has no public image at the moment. It has no real heritage or brand awareness. As people tend to pick brand images that suit their required personal image, Noble's might make people uncomfortable because it says nothing about them (or perhaps 'what's that!'). Perhaps this is precicely why us owners/queuers put our names down on Nobles growing list of customers.
I personally don't particularly like any of the negative 'labels' that have become attached to nearly all other high-volume sports car marques, so from a brand-label perspective Noble's anonimity is as refreshing as the product itself.
>> Edited by goodlife on Thursday 11th September 19:08
That last response is spot on. Apologies if my earlier post was too flip and only answered the "What do others think?" angle - I too like the anonymity of a Noble, as leaving e.g. a high end Porsche in a Glasgow street is a risk.....
The value for money is also superb - which only leaves the unknown quantity of retained value after depreciation. I know I'm taking a serious risk on this but I'm prepared for that.
Brian
The value for money is also superb - which only leaves the unknown quantity of retained value after depreciation. I know I'm taking a serious risk on this but I'm prepared for that.
Brian
Personally I don't give the perverbial FF what anyone else thinks, me, I bought it because I liked the look of it, I liked the drive, and it screamed *buy me* at me when I saw it.
But then, so did the Elise, and the X5, and the Quattro so I bought them. Cars to me are a disposable item, namely there are more important things in life than a hunk of metal/grp, and so the moment is what it's about, not the journey afterwards.
As for resale - you loose money on cars like it's going out of fashion, so if you want rock solid residulas buy a golf... (club that is, not the VW thingy)
As for good value - is Foie Gras good value, is Bolly worth quaffing 9 stories up above Bank at £120 a bottle good value???? Yes and No of course!
As for the "wow" factor, I get better when I wave my winkle out of the X5, but hey, you can't have everything.........
J
But then, so did the Elise, and the X5, and the Quattro so I bought them. Cars to me are a disposable item, namely there are more important things in life than a hunk of metal/grp, and so the moment is what it's about, not the journey afterwards.
As for resale - you loose money on cars like it's going out of fashion, so if you want rock solid residulas buy a golf... (club that is, not the VW thingy)
As for good value - is Foie Gras good value, is Bolly worth quaffing 9 stories up above Bank at £120 a bottle good value???? Yes and No of course!
As for the "wow" factor, I get better when I wave my winkle out of the X5, but hey, you can't have everything.........
J
Well you compared it to a Porker costing similar money. I think its a fairly safe bet that the Noble is going to depreciate faster, so you need to balance the specialness of the Noble versus the efficiency but slightly clinical nature of the Porker. Don't think I'd consider a porker until I got to TT level which is another ballpark anyway.
As to Noble used prices, there is at least one for 35k here which is a pretty big hit to the wallet. Lee keeps changing them as well, which doesn't do much for residuals.
I've currently got my name down for the new Lotus Exige S2, my Noble owning friend keeps pointing out that I could get a second hand M12 for similar money. He has a point, although running an M12 will almost certainly cost more.
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