A few tech questions on the2.5 & 3 litre specs

[Terry S]

Hi guys,
I am a potential M12 buyer and I would like to know the following before taking the plunge:

1/. Compression ratios on both engines

2/. Injector size either in cc's or lbs/hr

3/. Is the Intercooler on the 3 litre bigger than that on the 2.5

Lastly, are there any recorded mechanical problems with the 2.5 litre?

TIA

Terry

[goodlife]

Terry,

The engines are blown upon by John Noble Motorsport (no relation to Lee). See their contact details at www.johnnoblemotorsport.co.uk/

On your website is your 600bhp Supra! I don't think the 2.5 or 3.0 will quite get to that level without seriously affecting reliability.

[ek993]

Terry, you are not seriously getting rid of the 'Purple Beast' after all the sweat and tears you have put into it are you??

Good to see you are thinking of a Noble if the Soop does go, knowing what you are like with modding though, should be interesting to see what it would be like after 12 months in your ownership Should give Leon something new to get his teeth into..

>> Edited by ek993 on Monday 1st September 16:14

[Terry S]

The Supra is over 700bhp now.

I am pondering a change. I would like to get it to 400-450ish and am thinking of a few mods hence the questions.

BTW Leon's will be 800+ now!

Terry

[m12_nathan]

you can get a 3.0 from the factory with 385bhp, give JNM a shout to see what else is possible without having to change pistons, turbos etc.

If you find out the 3.0 compression ratio could you post it as I'm interested.

Thanks

[goodlife]

400 to 450 should not be too difficult to come by. Rumours are that the factory development car already has 400, so John Noble should be able to deliver that no problem. The factory are also talking of making bhp upgrades available.

As the engines are Ford Duratec V6, there are plenty of other tuning parts out there. Nitros anyone?

[joust]

The "limit" is just your imagination and "cheque book" limit

I've had some "interesting" converstaions with the factory and JNM about the limits of both the 2.5 and 3.0

At the end of the day after around 340bhp on one or the other you are getting into "interesting" land. 400-450+ is available around the £4-20k mark, after that then you are into £15k+...

BUT - drive one and you'll soon find that "power is nothing without control"...

330-340 in my 2.5 is "sane", and you'd need to be "Mr. Palmer" to get any faster with more power. Me, I'm saving my next £10k for lessons rather than a build fund for JNM (and given I'm their prodigal son for building 'tweaked' engines they are prob. quite happy about that!)

J

[Terry S]

I will try and find the compression ratio. I am a little surprised to find they run low boost ( I believe it is 0.6 bar, please correct me if I am wrong). I therefore assume that the engines have a high comp ratio for a turbo engine, either that or they are being very conservative.

Is the 3 litre a UK spec engine ( sorry guys I know nothing of Fords) and if so what are they out of, where would you get tuning bits.

What is the gearbox from?

Lastly, if someone bought a 2.5, is the 3 litre a straight swap of are the engine mounts etc different?

Sorry for all the questions, I am trying to weigh up my options.

[LaurenceFrost]

I'm pretty sure the 3.0 I went in was reading 0.8 bar.

[amg merc]

[quote

What is the gearbox from?


The gearbox is destined for a hot Ford Focus (I think - can't remember the actual model?!) and the Noble M12-3R is it's first implementation worldwide anywhere!

[goodlife]

As it's a standard Ford Duratec, you can find all the performance modifications and general information you need from this website:
www.duratecperformance.com

Don't be put off the the Max Power home page, it's an excellent reference and has a forum where you should be able to find all the answers you are looking for.

[pwig]

Interesting, that the worlds fastest road legal Supra (215mph IIRC) which was driven on the roads to the venue, 'only' has 544BHP.

[Terry S]

I don't beleive that is the fastest road legal Supra!!! It may have had better gearing to get to 215 but it definately wouldn't get there quickest. There are road legal cars in the US running 8 sec quater miles. There was also a JUN car that did 250mph on Salt flats.

Thanks for the info on the Noble guys. I will check out the engine site

[m12_nathan]

LaurenceFrost said:

I'm pretty sure the 3.0 I went in was reading 0.8 bar.

0.7 bar standard.

[Terry S]

Thanks guys. Has anyone taken the cats out, raised the boost and put a set of det cans on one? Would be interesting to see what power it would put out.

The engine site was excellent BTW, thanks. There is stuff on there that I thought would need to be custom made, off the shelf.

I saw that the Duratec 3.0 is in the Mondeo ST220. Is that the same over here, as it's also in the X type according to the site.

[pwig]

Terry S said:

I don't beleive that is the fastest road legal Supra!!! It may have had better gearing to get to 215 but it definately wouldn't get there quickest. There are road legal cars in the US running 8 sec quater miles. There was also a JUN car that did 250mph on Salt flats. Thanks for the info on the Noble guys. I will check out the engine site

Wasn't road legal, and it needed a parachute to slow down, and it was trailerd there.

[m12_nathan]

Are you sure PWIG doesn't stand for Paul Waite is God?

Terry - compression ratio of the 3L is 8.6:1

[Terry S]

What are you talking about? The JUN one. I assume the one you are talking about ( 215 mph) was Paul Waite's one. AFAIK that was never verified and many think the whole thing is BS. Now don't get me wrong Paul is a lovely bloke, but there are 10 cars in the UK alone that will trounce that car. I know the car and the new owner very well. If it's a different car, have you got any details.

Also BTW the JUN car IS road legal and have been restored to full road trim, but with the same mechanicals.

[goodlife]

Terry S said:

The engine site was excellent BTW, thanks. There is stuff on there that I thought would need to be custom made, off the shelf. I saw that the Duratec 3.0 is in the Mondeo ST220. Is that the same over here, as it's also in the X type according to the site.

IFAIK that is correct. The same basic 3.0 Duratec is used in the ST220, X-Type, S-Type (3.0) over here. It's just a bit breathed upon before it gets shoehorned into the Noble

[stuh]

I thought the 2.5l was from the ST220 but the 3.0L from an Explorer 4x4 ?

I also believe that the 2.5 runs 0.7 bar (assuming no overboost kit) and the 3.0 0.6 bar.

I've spoken to JNM about the engine potential and bigger turbo's amd forged pistons were the prefered route. I'd be keen to see what someone with a 700bhp Supra could do with a Noble though