HID..... before and after pics!

[gaz 7404]

Took some pics after I had fitted one side with the HID kit, the amount of light is amazing and is a very pure white as opposed to the yellow look! Anyway they are that good it looks like im gonna make a bulk order now all my buddys want em!!

these are led sidelights and the following photo is of the HID.

Gar.

[Mike Tuckwood]

Which kit is that Gar? (cost & spec?)

Is it the HIDS4U kit? Did NigelW get anywhere with those super cheapo Chinese kits he ordered?


Mike

[gaz 7404]

Hiya Mike, Got this kit from china claimed to be BOSCH and i must admit it looks the biz and does the biz (no ecu/elec issues......yet). The spec is 6000k pure white and cost...............a mere £48 delivered! Gar.

[V6GTO]

How much are you going to charge to fit them

[Iaing01]

Looks good. How easy were they to fit? The standard lights really are terrible!

Iain

[Mike Tuckwood]

gaz 7404 said:

Hiya Mike, Got this kit from china claimed to be BOSCH and i must admit it looks the biz and does the biz (no ecu/elec issues......yet). The spec is 6000k pure white and cost...............a mere £48 delivered! Gar.

That's got to be worth a punt I'd say, nice find there, are you assembling orders or just pointing people off to the supplier, either way, I'll have a set.

Did you say you'd sourced LED sidelights too, If yes where, how much Etc.


Mike.

[peterguk]

Having done loads of research, posting on various specialist forums, i'm in the middle of upgrading my lights using a replacement front clam.

My criteria for the project is quite simple - high quality light output. Not interested in blue, purple, pink or green light, not interested in blinding oncoming cars, not interested in glare due to incorrect focal point, just the best i can achieve in illumination.

I'm more than willing to post all my gathered info. if peeps are interested, but as a starter, a few facts:

Light colour is measured in Kelvin
Light output is measured in Lumens (lu)

Colour v Light Output: (figures vary slightly from different sources, these taken from Hella DE)

3000K = 2900lu - yellow
4300K = 3200lu - white with a tint of yellow MAX LIGHT OUTPUT
5000K = 3100lu - white
6000K = 2800lu - white with blue
8000K = 2450lu - blue (chav)
10000K = 2200lu - blue/purple (very chav)
12000K = 1800lu - purple (extremely chav)

As can be seen, 4300K gives the highest light output, which is why OEM (i.e. manufacturers) only use bulbs in the 4100-4300K range.

As the light becomes bluer, light output reduces, and although cool looking to some, becomes useless to see with.

HID bulbs "burn in" over a period of time, and 4300K bulbs will approach 4600-4800K within a year or so.

Here's a pic comparing different HID bulbs. On the left, Philips D2S 4300K, on the right Chinese 6000K bulb. Notice the totally ineffective light output from the 6000K bulb compared to the OEM.



I have sourced a reliable supplier of OEM parts: Hella/Philips ballasts, Philips/Osram bulbs. All made in Germany. Kit cost around £220.

I am currently producing 1 kit for myself, and another for another forum member.

In my case, i'm ripping out the single M12 headlamp, and fabricating new panels to take 4 x Hella 90mm units. The dip beam units are imported ECE spec. units, which have a different mirror specifically designed for the Philips D2S HID bulbs, as opposed to the H7 halogen units. Cost about £75 each.

I've chosen these simply becasue the H7 mirror is not optomised for D2S HID bulbs, and there is often undesirable glare at the cut off points if D2S bulbs are used in H7 units. This will blind drivers waiting to turn out of left-hand side roads.

As i said, got lots more info, with lots of pics.... I don't want to offend or appear superior, so i'll keep quiet if you prefer.

Edited by peterguk on Sunday 27th January 20:36

[snuffy]

Have I read that right ? ARe you replacing your 3 clam with a 3R clam ?

[peterguk]

snuffy said:

Have I read that right ? ARe you replacing your 3 clam with a 3R clam ?

Not quite... Since perspex et al is very much less than optically perfect, i don't want my nice, new, expensive lightbeams being immediately degraded, so i am having "open" lights.

The GRP mountings are already made, and i'm about to start converting my spare M12 clam.

It will look like this:





If popular with the masses, it will be offered as a full conversion in my workshop.

Edited by peterguk on Sunday 27th January 11:34

[paulcundy]

peterguk said:

Light colour is measured in Kelvin
Light output is measured in Lumens (lu)

Colour v Light Output:

3000K = 4000lu - yellow
4300K = 3200lu - white MAX LIGHT OUTPUT

Dear Peter,
Thanks for all this effort and info. Can I check with you, above you say the white ahs more light output than the yellow but that's not what the figures say. Did you mean max output for white light as opposed to absolute max output?

What I am asking is if I want max light power what Kelvin do I go for?
Regards
Paul C

[snuffy]

peterguk said:

snuffy said:

Have I read that right ? ARe you replacing your 3 clam with a 3R clam ?

Not quite... Since perspex et al is very much less than optically perfect, i don't want my nice, new, expensive lightbeams being immediately degraded, so i am having "open" lights.

The GRP mountings are already made, and i'm about to start converting my spare M12 clam.

If popular with the masses, it will be offered as a full conversion in my workshop.

I could be tempted..

[peterguk]

paulcundy said:

peterguk said:

Light colour is measured in Kelvin
Light output is measured in Lumens (lu)

Colour v Light Output:

3000K = 4000lu - yellow
4300K = 3200lu - white MAX LIGHT OUTPUT

Dear Peter,
Thanks for all this effort and info. Can I check with you, above you say the white ahs more light output than the yellow but that's not what the figures say. Did you mean max output for white light as opposed to absolute max output?

What I am asking is if I want max light power what Kelvin do I go for?
Regards
Paul C

Hi Paul

Thanks for your comments. Firstly, you found an error in my cutting and pasting. And it was late when i posted... I have now corrected the figures in my table.

OK, as a novice to lighting science, two of the companies i called were PIAA USA and Hella USA (i don't speak Jap or German). Both have built custom setups for countless endurance and rally teams. Although certain info. was not divulged (understandably), both companies told me they nearly always supply bulbs between 3000K and 5000K.

The light output between the temps. supplied is very similar, but the effect on the drivers' eyes varies as the contrast between light, dark, shadows and perspective etc. can differ depending on event, ambient lighting, time of day, darkness etc, as well as driver preference. So, often, race teams will use a combination of white and yellow bulbs. Images of cars racing down the Mulsanne / Arnege come to mind...

Furthermore, yellow light does not glare like white light in rain/fog conditions.

The answer to your question is easy. My notes show that Hella, Philips, Osram, PIAA all gave me the same answer: 4200K to 5000K. Funny how OEM all use 4300K Philips/Osram bulbs, which with use rise to around 4600/4800K...

Although i did contact some of the ebay sellers, i rapidly realsied that i was being given info that suited what they were importing by the boat load from China, and not what the true professionals were telling me, so their info is excluded.

A note on 55W ebay kits. These are nothing more than an "overdriven" 35W ballast (a 10 minute job changing a current limiting resistor), and 35W bulbs. 35W HID bulbs will take 55W no problem, however there are long term risks: The bulbs will have a much reduced burn time, they will "yellow", and there are plenty of owners who have experienced peeling mirrors and melted housings. I'm not criticisng them, just not including them in my plan. Hella will not warranty the housings i am buying if i fit anything other than 35W.

Edited by peterguk on Monday 28th January 00:45

[V6GTO]

peterguk said:

If popular with the masses, it will be offered as a full conversion in my workshop.

They'd look bloody good on a GTO, but are you thinking of doing anything for the 3R/M400 boys?

And thanks for the effort you've gone to...when I do mine (when, not if ) I want to go for best quality, not cheapest, so I'd much prefer to go with big name brands that do R&D.

Martin.

Martin.

[RobP]

I used HIDs4U, and have never looked back (because I can actually see ahead of me now!).
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

What ever system you use make sure you check alignment with proper headlamp testing thingamigigs so that cut-off is correct and you don't blind on-coming traffic (and fail your MoT to boot).
This up-grade should be compulsory for all Nobles.

[peterguk]

V6GTO said:

peterguk said:

If popular with the masses, it will be offered as a full conversion in my workshop.

They'd look bloody good on a GTO, but are you thinking of doing anything for the 3R/M400 boys?

And thanks for the effort you've gone to...when I do mine (when, not if ) I want to go for best quality, not cheapest, so I'd much prefer to go with big name brands that do R&D.

Martin.

Martin.

Hi Martin

Thanks for your positive comments. If a 3R/M400 wants a conversion, i will prepare a modified set of moulds - after mine are done.

[nigelw]

Still waiting to get them from China .I wasnt in a rush and at £25 / pair ( I bought two pairs to do dip and main beam ) I was happy to wait . as soon as they are fitted I will re post telling you if they are ok and if I had any problems ....

Nigel

[sean_goodman]

no i am getting confused, i know its been a while since i went into the garage and looked at the noble as its having its winter sleep at the moment but.....

i seem to remember one of the light units (the normal driving dipped beam i think) is a projector lamp, how can this be changed to a hid kit which is basically the ballast pack and bulb?

am i missing something stupid?

[peterguk]

sean_goodman said:

i seem to remember one of the light units (the normal driving dipped beam i think) is a projector lamp, how can this be changed to a hid kit which is basically the ballast pack and bulb?

am i missing something stupid?

Correct. The dip beam unit is a projector, the main beam is a FFR (free form reflector).

Essentially, to upgrade the dip beam to HID just requires new bulb and ballast pack, however beware..

The "ebay" type kits contain HID bulbs with a suitable base, in this case H7. But the reflector at the rear of the lamp is optimised for a H7 bulb. The gas discharge (light source) of the HID bulb is in a different position in relation to the reflector, resulting in a disturbed beam pattern, glare at cut off points etc. This does not mean you won't get an improvement on the original halogen, but it does mean you're not getting the best in HID lighting.

Alternatively, the route i am taking is to replace the whole dip beam unit with Hella's dedicated HID unit. This has a mirror and projector designed exclusively for HID, which will result in the best HID has to offer.

Ballast units and bulbs vary in price and performance. Hella/Philips units are made in Germany only and are supplied to OEM manufacturers. The Philips ballasts i am buying come with lifetime warranty, with genuine Philips D2S bulbs, approx £230 for a full kit.

There are millions of Chinese units, sometimes no cheaper. Little or no warranty, and a questionable quality.

You pays your money, and takes your choice.

[sean_goodman]

peterguk said:

sean_goodman said:

i seem to remember one of the light units (the normal driving dipped beam i think) is a projector lamp, how can this be changed to a hid kit which is basically the ballast pack and bulb?

am i missing something stupid?

Correct. The dip beam unit is a projector, the main beam is a FFR (free form reflector).

Essentially, to upgrade the dip beam to HID just requires new bulb and ballast pack, however beware..

The "ebay" type kits contain HID bulbs with a suitable base, in this case H7. But the reflector at the rear of the lamp is optimised for a H7 bulb. The gas discharge (light source) of the HID bulb is in a different position in relation to the reflector, resulting in a disturbed beam pattern, glare at cut off points etc. This does not mean you won't get an improvement on the original halogen, but it does mean you're not getting the best in HID lighting.

Alternatively, the route i am taking is to replace the whole dip beam unit with Hella's dedicated HID unit. This has a mirror and projector designed exclusively for HID, which will result in the best HID has to offer.

Ballast units and bulbs vary in price and performance. Hella/Philips units are made in Germany only and are supplied to OEM manufacturers. The Philips ballasts i am buying come with lifetime warranty, with genuine Philips D2S bulbs, approx £230 for a full kit.

There are millions of Chinese units, sometimes no cheaper. Little or no warranty, and a questionable quality.

You pays your money, and takes your choice.

with the hella unit does that mean that by turning the unit 15 degrees one can change the beam pattern from RhD to LhD as i have done with my origional hella projector lamps currently fitted? note i live in germany.

also living in germany and being able to buy tax free (british forces) i reckon i could get these hella kits at a decent price, could you point me at what it is i require from hella as a kit please, part number would be great and i will see what prices i can come up with, might help others on here

cheers
sean

[peterguk]

sean_goodman said:

could you point me at what it is i require from hella as a kit please, part number would be great and i will see what prices i can come up with, might help others on here

cheers
sean

I don't have the part number to hand, but what you need is:

Hella 90mm dipped beam unit - D2S bulb fit NOT H7.

Not available in the UK, but should be easy for you in Germany.

They are ECE approved and can be adjusted for LHD or RHD.