Discussion
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just had to say a big thank you to the boys at John Noble Motorsport in chesterfield for the transformation of my 400.
Having never driven any other m400 prior to this one I hadn’t got any real benchmark to compare it against .
After Donnington in the summer I was somewhat under whelmed! The car was handling very well but the vibration from the brakes and the outright engine power wasn’t what I was quite expecting to the point I thought I would get rid!
Got the brakes sorted and then asked JNM to have a look at the engine. The graph goes some way to convey the overall improvement in this car, however, every day driving is much more pleasant, the torque delivery is outstanding, it will pull like a train from 35mph in 6th .very tractable, however, quick application of full throttle has to be a very carefully considered action at mid rev range, even on dry roads .this car is now very quick but also sounds good (snap crackle and pop on a trailing throttle)all this was achieved without any increase in boost!33.3% increase in power.
Overall very pleased , will now definitely keep the car, so a good result.
Any of you chaps thinking of organising another track day?
Regards
]
Yak293
[/pic]just had to say a big thank you to the boys at John Noble Motorsport in chesterfield for the transformation of my 400.
Having never driven any other m400 prior to this one I hadn’t got any real benchmark to compare it against .
After Donnington in the summer I was somewhat under whelmed! The car was handling very well but the vibration from the brakes and the outright engine power wasn’t what I was quite expecting to the point I thought I would get rid!
Got the brakes sorted and then asked JNM to have a look at the engine. The graph goes some way to convey the overall improvement in this car, however, every day driving is much more pleasant, the torque delivery is outstanding, it will pull like a train from 35mph in 6th .very tractable, however, quick application of full throttle has to be a very carefully considered action at mid rev range, even on dry roads .this car is now very quick but also sounds good (snap crackle and pop on a trailing throttle)all this was achieved without any increase in boost!33.3% increase in power.
Overall very pleased , will now definitely keep the car, so a good result.
Any of you chaps thinking of organising another track day?
Regards
]
Yak293
works carried out by JNM;
initial engine tests,checks and measurement.
intercooler.
exhaust.
oil cooler fan.
replace turbo actuator.
several hours on the rolling road/remap.
few other bits and pieces.
Huge difference and well worth doing! have kept all the original kit, in the event some future owner might want it original ! but i can not imagine any circumstances why they would!
This car is how it could/should have left the factory 2 years ago.
yak
initial engine tests,checks and measurement.
intercooler.
exhaust.
oil cooler fan.
replace turbo actuator.
several hours on the rolling road/remap.
few other bits and pieces.
Huge difference and well worth doing! have kept all the original kit, in the event some future owner might want it original ! but i can not imagine any circumstances why they would!
This car is how it could/should have left the factory 2 years ago.
yak
Jonathan, I apologise for saying this and I hope it doesn't offend you.
JNM's rolling road results can be a little optomistic when compared to Dyno Dynamics and Trevors RR. IMHO
Don't quote me but 2 yrs ago at Brands (Owners day) JNM own moded car (3R) that some one had just brought was put on Gadges RR I think it was supposed to be 440BHP but only got 397BHP (That was a very cold day also).
It would be interesting to take it to another RR to compare.
Bondy
JNM's rolling road results can be a little optomistic when compared to Dyno Dynamics and Trevors RR. IMHO
Don't quote me but 2 yrs ago at Brands (Owners day) JNM own moded car (3R) that some one had just brought was put on Gadges RR I think it was supposed to be 440BHP but only got 397BHP (That was a very cold day also).
It would be interesting to take it to another RR to compare.
Bondy
snuffy said:
The best thing is to use the same RR for before and after runs and only look at percentage increases. Then it does not matter if it under reads or over reads.
So true. All the Fiat coupe owners who tuned their cars, to stop all this kind of debate, all used the same rollers in the end. Was a great source of information then, having 20-30 cars all plotted with what mods had been done....hey martin,
you are not going to offend me but your wrong you haven't read the graph properly yet.
if you look carefully you will see the dotted red line gives you the before(363 bhp) and the solid the new(478bhp)the green dotted is the old tongue curve (350ibs) and again the solid green the new torque (409 ibs)
so if this road is so optimistic how come my original power figure was only 363bhp on an engine that should be producing 425bhp but I am reliably informed normally produce 370 to 385bhp in unaltered guise?? so definately not
overreading?
don't deny there are inconsistencies with many rolling roads! and certainly don't want to get into my cars better than so and so's because that is a little sad! but think your barking up the wrong tree on this one..
the real test is how it feels before and after, and this I can assure you is huge, you are welcome to have a go at the next meet, think you will be impressed too.
all imho
regards
yak
you are not going to offend me but your wrong you haven't read the graph properly yet.
if you look carefully you will see the dotted red line gives you the before(363 bhp) and the solid the new(478bhp)the green dotted is the old tongue curve (350ibs) and again the solid green the new torque (409 ibs)
so if this road is so optimistic how come my original power figure was only 363bhp on an engine that should be producing 425bhp but I am reliably informed normally produce 370 to 385bhp in unaltered guise?? so definately not
overreading?
don't deny there are inconsistencies with many rolling roads! and certainly don't want to get into my cars better than so and so's because that is a little sad! but think your barking up the wrong tree on this one..
the real test is how it feels before and after, and this I can assure you is huge, you are welcome to have a go at the next meet, think you will be impressed too.
all imho
regards
yak
Edited by yak293 on Tuesday 16th October 00:50
yak293 said:
hey martin,
you are not going to offend me but your wrong you haven't read the graph properly yet.
if you look carefully you will see the dotted red line gives you the before(363 bhp) and the solid the new(478bhp)the green dotted is the old tongue curve (350ibs) and again the solid green the new torque (409 ibs)
so if this road is so optimistic how come my original power figure was only 363bhp on an engine that should be producing 435bhp but I am reliably informed normally produce 370 to 385bhp in unaltered guise?? so definately not
overreading?
don't deny there are inconsistencies with many rolling roads! and certainly don't want to get into my cars better than so and so's because that is a little sad! but think your barking up the wrong tree on this one..
the real test is how it feels before and after, and this I can assure you is huge, you are welcome to have a go at the next meet, think you will be impressed too.
all imho
regards
yak
you are not going to offend me but your wrong you haven't read the graph properly yet.
if you look carefully you will see the dotted red line gives you the before(363 bhp) and the solid the new(478bhp)the green dotted is the old tongue curve (350ibs) and again the solid green the new torque (409 ibs)
so if this road is so optimistic how come my original power figure was only 363bhp on an engine that should be producing 435bhp but I am reliably informed normally produce 370 to 385bhp in unaltered guise?? so definately not
overreading?
don't deny there are inconsistencies with many rolling roads! and certainly don't want to get into my cars better than so and so's because that is a little sad! but think your barking up the wrong tree on this one..
the real test is how it feels before and after, and this I can assure you is huge, you are welcome to have a go at the next meet, think you will be impressed too.
all imho
regards
yak
Absolutley agree, I didn't notice the before curve. So thats a bloody amazing increase for not alot of change. I remeber you saying at the limits day how much better it felt.
Did the cams get changed or any other internal engine work?
363-385 does seem to be the norm for a std untouched M400 so maybe they have changed the RR or done something.
But as you say bottom line is the car is now how it should have been from the factory.
Look forward to another Pax at the next Track day.
Bondy
hi phil,
Think they found one actuator was faulty making the other do all the work, the guys picked this up as an imbalance between the two banks on the initial road session, if that makes any sense
The zorst is a non cat Roush, the intercooler is JNM own brand.
no internal works were carried out to the engine.
the engine now feels responsive, willing, and far more efficient than it ever did before, also running cooler oil temps,even without the fan switched on, no doubt its not being stoked anything like it was before???
jonathan/yak293
Think they found one actuator was faulty making the other do all the work, the guys picked this up as an imbalance between the two banks on the initial road session, if that makes any sense
The zorst is a non cat Roush, the intercooler is JNM own brand.
no internal works were carried out to the engine.
the engine now feels responsive, willing, and far more efficient than it ever did before, also running cooler oil temps,even without the fan switched on, no doubt its not being stoked anything like it was before???
jonathan/yak293
and here is another take on the same subject. Underlying red lines are a US M400 with some mods, and the upper blue lines are of my newly revised US 3R .... yes, very happy camper, and this is RWHP, so with trans losses, equates to roughly 630 at the crankshaft. ( easy on the Go Pedal is the phrase of the day ! )
yak293 said:
The zorst is a non cat Roush, the intercooler is JNM own brand.
Good work Yak! Sounds excellent. Nice to suddenly get a huge power boost!Only thing to note is that you'll be way over the noise limit on trackdays. Defo need the cats in and maybe even the scilencer pipes Roush do too for an M400 at Donny/Goodwood etc.
I'm told that the race cats don't do much damage to the power at all, just dampen the noise and emmisions.
Enjoy.
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