GTO3 vs 996 Turbo
Discussion
Hi all,
Now I know its a bit of a silly comparison for a number of reasons such as ones twice the price of the other and the fact both cars are designed for different purposes.
but does anyone know how the GTO-3 compares with a 996 Turbo (with X50 performance package) with regards to performance ? has anyone driven both of these ?
Thanks
Michael
Now I know its a bit of a silly comparison for a number of reasons such as ones twice the price of the other and the fact both cars are designed for different purposes.
but does anyone know how the GTO-3 compares with a 996 Turbo (with X50 performance package) with regards to performance ? has anyone driven both of these ?
Thanks
Michael
You said it in your first paragraph. Although both of them are great, very fast performance cars they can't be compared because they are so very different in how they eat up the miles.
I can fit in a 996, don't think I can in a Nobel otherwise I would have grabbed a ride in Joust's car at Bruntingthorpe last month, and be able to give you a better comparison.
In a traffic light grandprix to 100 there probably isn't much in it. Add in some twisties and the Nobel has less suspension travel and is flatter going around corners. However what you can't take away from the 996 is the hoonage potential that PSM allows even a west country bumpkin such as myself to enjoy sliding the bugger deliberately past it's traction with PSM only cutting in when you do seriously overcook it.
In short the Nobel makes you work and feel like you are travelling fast. The 996 makes it so easy knowing you have PSM to bail you out when you go too far.
Perhaps someone who passenegred in both vehicles at Brunters would care to comment.
DAZ
I can fit in a 996, don't think I can in a Nobel otherwise I would have grabbed a ride in Joust's car at Bruntingthorpe last month, and be able to give you a better comparison.
In a traffic light grandprix to 100 there probably isn't much in it. Add in some twisties and the Nobel has less suspension travel and is flatter going around corners. However what you can't take away from the 996 is the hoonage potential that PSM allows even a west country bumpkin such as myself to enjoy sliding the bugger deliberately past it's traction with PSM only cutting in when you do seriously overcook it.
In short the Nobel makes you work and feel like you are travelling fast. The 996 makes it so easy knowing you have PSM to bail you out when you go too far.
Perhaps someone who passenegred in both vehicles at Brunters would care to comment.
DAZ
The thing that impressed me most about the Kaiser's carriage was it's complete supremacy; the fastest car in general and on The Kessel Straight, too, Goddamit!
On reflection, I've tried to imagine how or why it's so good/complete. I suppose it's the perfect fusion of luxury and preposterous ability - I could imagine an M5 or even SL55 AMG driver veritably graduating into a 996TT X-Pack...Daz is being far too modest about PSM helping him out THAT much - physics defying is all very well but you must be aware of what lies beyond and he rode the ripple (to borrow from Macc Laddetry) with consumate aplomb.
Quick Hail ze Kaiser in order, methinks
Joust's Noble, by contrast, was kind of Elise-raw. Not Ultima minimalism...but for sheer, manic laugh inducing dribble, the boy Justin can't half handle the damn thing and was by far the fastest through the twisty bits and indeed, felt quickest on entry to the straight. Mental outta the traps (quicker than the 911s?) and that simply bonkers, asthmatic Sith Lord to your rear; it shot to 140 like a nuclear rodent oop a drain pipe but obviously wasn't designed for the autobahns...this was 'only' a 2.5 so maybe the 170 mph 3.0 will address this frankly irrelevant defecit?
Which one to buy? The 996TT IS the more rounded proposition but if it's just 'one of the fleet' like Joust-San, then I dunno...it was bloody involving!
I do want a Noble but I also want a Diablo and an F360 Spider...but there's only so much dope you can sell in a day so the panzer it'd be and indeed, a povvie-spec version is precisely wot I 'as.
Bugger it! Buy either - you can't lose!
On reflection, I've tried to imagine how or why it's so good/complete. I suppose it's the perfect fusion of luxury and preposterous ability - I could imagine an M5 or even SL55 AMG driver veritably graduating into a 996TT X-Pack...Daz is being far too modest about PSM helping him out THAT much - physics defying is all very well but you must be aware of what lies beyond and he rode the ripple (to borrow from Macc Laddetry) with consumate aplomb.
Quick Hail ze Kaiser in order, methinks
Joust's Noble, by contrast, was kind of Elise-raw. Not Ultima minimalism...but for sheer, manic laugh inducing dribble, the boy Justin can't half handle the damn thing and was by far the fastest through the twisty bits and indeed, felt quickest on entry to the straight. Mental outta the traps (quicker than the 911s?) and that simply bonkers, asthmatic Sith Lord to your rear; it shot to 140 like a nuclear rodent oop a drain pipe but obviously wasn't designed for the autobahns...this was 'only' a 2.5 so maybe the 170 mph 3.0 will address this frankly irrelevant defecit?
Which one to buy? The 996TT IS the more rounded proposition but if it's just 'one of the fleet' like Joust-San, then I dunno...it was bloody involving!
I do want a Noble but I also want a Diablo and an F360 Spider...but there's only so much dope you can sell in a day so the panzer it'd be and indeed, a povvie-spec version is precisely wot I 'as.
Bugger it! Buy either - you can't lose!
Hi all,
Now I know its a bit of a silly comparison for a number of reasons such as ones twice the price of the other and the fact both cars are designed for different purposes.
but does anyone know how the GTO-3 compares with a 996 Turbo (with X50 performance package) with regards to performance ? has anyone driven both of these ?
Thanks
Michael
...oh no, not again (head falls to desk arms covering head)!!!
Depends what you want it for. The Noble simply hasn't got the versatility of the Porsche.
I doubt there's much in it performance-wise until you get above 120 mph. The Noble is fine on the motorway at the usual speeds, if a bit boomy compared to the 996 (though the 3 litre may be quieter).
Where the Noble really scores is that it weighs less than a tonne and you really notice this.
I doubt there's much in it performance-wise until you get above 120 mph. The Noble is fine on the motorway at the usual speeds, if a bit boomy compared to the 996 (though the 3 litre may be quieter).
Where the Noble really scores is that it weighs less than a tonne and you really notice this.
Having been in Daz's 996 nuttermobile - I'll give you my opinion.....
For twice the money (alomst), you get twice the car with the 996. It's the product of millions of hours of engineering time by thousands of people over 10's of years.
It's simply the "fastest" thing that can take any person in total tutonic luxury to mind numbingly fast speeds.
It has a seriously clever electronic gizmo system that will sort out all but the most serious of overcooks for you - allowing you to keep la right foot seriously planted and not worry (too much) about it. The Noble takes a different approach. As DeR will testify - the Noble actually *tells* you before it's going to go that it is going to go, and you have three choices.... 1) back off slightly and it won't, 2) wait for it to go (which it does *very* progressivly) and then correct it, or 3) correct it the moment it happens giving the impression that it hasn't [3) was used a lot with DeR in it
]. Different approach - but in the wet (me and Daz have done runs in both) the Porsche would be the slightly better of the two - whilst the Noble is good - it does require greater respect (or more bravery that I have ) that the "don't worry Sir - we know better than you what to do" approach of the Porsche!
The Noble is the product of one man's genius. It will safely "outhandle" almost anything that isn't track focused (remember Lee's set it up to be a road car - i.e. after 3 hours in it you can climb out without "feeling" bad), and has just the most nutty engine in the world. If you "subscribe" to that (and also to the whole experience where everyone in the factory remembers you car, will chat to you, and do almost anything for you), and to everything that goes with a low number, British designed and made car then it's for you.
Between 0-120, it would probably be a simple case of the Porsche getting bogged down slightly at the start, but then slowly crawling back the deficit where after 130 it would start to leave the Noble. The difference is marked - one should not underestimate the difference in top end power and drag to end up with 30+ mph difference between the two at the speed trap, just 1.6miles away considering the speed of ground you are covering.
As for living with every day - well *personally* I would have an X5 3.0l and the Noble for the same dosh as the single 996
[oh - I have!] - mainly becuase I'm just slightly mad when it comes to wanting certain "focuses" in my cars (hence the other two within my stable....).
To "compare" them is slightly silly (as you've pointed out - for a start there is the difference in price!), but to contrast their abilities then that's a better exercise.
If you want serious tutonic machinery, then the 996ttX50 has it over anything that Audi or BMW can through at it (but compared to some of the AMG madness - not sure), if you want pure genius British sportscar - then the Noble it is.
I've got ultimate respect for the 996tt - for Porsche to turn a rear engine, 'unbalanced' car into what Daz has is a pure feat of engineering, but personally, I'd take the Noble any day, but only because I know a trip down to the tip can be done in the X5
Feel free to come to the next Bruntingthorpe and experience the difference (assuming the car's back in time) - mine will be slightly "modded" as well so it'll be even more interesting!
Oh - and if you want Daz - more than happy for you to attempt to get in as well (although the getting out is the hard bit)
J
For twice the money (alomst), you get twice the car with the 996. It's the product of millions of hours of engineering time by thousands of people over 10's of years.
It's simply the "fastest" thing that can take any person in total tutonic luxury to mind numbingly fast speeds.
It has a seriously clever electronic gizmo system that will sort out all but the most serious of overcooks for you - allowing you to keep la right foot seriously planted and not worry (too much) about it. The Noble takes a different approach. As DeR will testify - the Noble actually *tells* you before it's going to go that it is going to go, and you have three choices.... 1) back off slightly and it won't, 2) wait for it to go (which it does *very* progressivly) and then correct it, or 3) correct it the moment it happens giving the impression that it hasn't [3) was used a lot with DeR in it
]. Different approach - but in the wet (me and Daz have done runs in both) the Porsche would be the slightly better of the two - whilst the Noble is good - it does require greater respect (or more bravery that I have ) that the "don't worry Sir - we know better than you what to do" approach of the Porsche! The Noble is the product of one man's genius. It will safely "outhandle" almost anything that isn't track focused (remember Lee's set it up to be a road car - i.e. after 3 hours in it you can climb out without "feeling" bad), and has just the most nutty engine in the world. If you "subscribe" to that (and also to the whole experience where everyone in the factory remembers you car, will chat to you, and do almost anything for you), and to everything that goes with a low number, British designed and made car then it's for you.
Between 0-120, it would probably be a simple case of the Porsche getting bogged down slightly at the start, but then slowly crawling back the deficit where after 130 it would start to leave the Noble. The difference is marked - one should not underestimate the difference in top end power and drag to end up with 30+ mph difference between the two at the speed trap, just 1.6miles away considering the speed of ground you are covering.
As for living with every day - well *personally* I would have an X5 3.0l and the Noble for the same dosh as the single 996
[oh - I have!] - mainly becuase I'm just slightly mad when it comes to wanting certain "focuses" in my cars (hence the other two within my stable....). To "compare" them is slightly silly (as you've pointed out - for a start there is the difference in price!), but to contrast their abilities then that's a better exercise.
If you want serious tutonic machinery, then the 996ttX50 has it over anything that Audi or BMW can through at it (but compared to some of the AMG madness - not sure), if you want pure genius British sportscar - then the Noble it is.
I've got ultimate respect for the 996tt - for Porsche to turn a rear engine, 'unbalanced' car into what Daz has is a pure feat of engineering, but personally, I'd take the Noble any day, but only because I know a trip down to the tip can be done in the X5
Feel free to come to the next Bruntingthorpe and experience the difference (assuming the car's back in time) - mine will be slightly "modded" as well so it'll be even more interesting!
Oh - and if you want Daz - more than happy for you to attempt to get in as well (although the getting out is the hard bit
) J
Having been lucky enough to have driven both cars in the last few weeks 
I can say the 996 was awsome in it's ability and could be driven nearer to it's limit by an average driver. On country roads I know well it was 6mph or more faster than I ever get in my 993 which I have driven there many times and although it feels a bigger car it was very chuckable, enough for the car salesman to need his teflon trousers.
The Noble was also amazing. I was more aware of people staring at it than when in the Porsche, the way it delt with traffic was even better dare I say and it sticks like sh*t to a blanket (another salesman in need of brown trousers) I'm still not sure about the long term reliability of the Noble although they seem well screwed together.The 996 is also a lot more practical (almost an MPV by comparison)
But they are such different cars, in more ways than price, that you can not really compare them.
The best thing to do is like me and go and try them both I suppose I'm lucky that only one of them is in my price range so I havn't really got to choose...what about a 993 turbo???
I can say the 996 was awsome in it's ability and could be driven nearer to it's limit by an average driver. On country roads I know well it was 6mph or more faster than I ever get in my 993 which I have driven there many times
and although it feels a bigger car it was very chuckable, enough for the car salesman to need his teflon trousers. The Noble was also amazing. I was more aware of people staring at it than when in the Porsche, the way it delt with traffic was even better dare I say and it sticks like sh*t to a blanket (another salesman in need of brown trousers) I'm still not sure about the long term reliability of the Noble although they seem well screwed together.The 996 is also a lot more practical (almost an MPV by comparison)
But they are such different cars, in more ways than price, that you can not really compare them.
The best thing to do is like me and go and try them both
I suppose I'm lucky that only one of them is in my price range so I havn't really got to choose...what about a 993 turbo???How about a nicely depreciated 993TT AND a possibly passe 2.5 litre creation from the stable of Le Duc du Noblesse et Moy?
You can wear preposterous trousers in either and effect either the steely clipped bark of a Richtoffen or the homely tongue of a slightly goosed Douggie Bader whilst pressing home the next kill!
Sensible policies for a warp speed B-road.
You can wear preposterous trousers in either and effect either the steely clipped bark of a Richtoffen or the homely tongue of a slightly goosed Douggie Bader whilst pressing home the next kill!
Sensible policies for a warp speed B-road.
derestrictor said: How about a nicely depreciated 993TT AND a possibly passe 2.5 litre creation from the stable of Le Duc du Noblesse et Moy?
You can wear preposterous trousers in either and effect either the steely clipped bark of a Richtoffen or the homely tongue of a slightly goosed Douggie Bader whilst pressing home the next kill!
Sensible policies for a warp speed B-road.
In english now please!
>> Edited by guysh on Wednesday 7th May 18:37
Finally managed to get a test drive in 911 (not X50)
On Saturday, I went down to AFN in Guilford and test drove both the 911 Turbo and a Carrera 2. The C2 didn't actually feel a lot faster than my JCW Cooper S! So we moved to the Turbo for a test drive.
The first minor problem is the fact that I'm 6ft4 and found it quite difficult to get comfortable in the 911, my legs kept getting in the way of the steering wheel. The Turbo its self is very impressive, but not quite as quick as I imagined it would be. I guess you really need longer than 30 minutes to get a complete feeling for the car.
On the way back from the AFN, I decided to take a detour via Mole Valley and see if the Noble was in. I wanted to see how comfortable It was compared to the 911. As ever they guys at Mole Valley were more than helpful, and it turned out they had had a spare slot for another test drive. So off I went again in the Noble. It was everything I remember it being.
Now having driven both cars back to back I can make a fair comparison. The Turbo is a lovely car, very competent and quick. The Noble on the other hand is the car for me, the acceleration and feel of the car are awesome, that coupled with that fact that’s its half the price of the 911 and that I can comfortable fit in the car, swings the decision.
All I have to do now, is start saving.
Thanks for everyone’s opinions
Cheers
Michael
On Saturday, I went down to AFN in Guilford and test drove both the 911 Turbo and a Carrera 2. The C2 didn't actually feel a lot faster than my JCW Cooper S! So we moved to the Turbo for a test drive.
The first minor problem is the fact that I'm 6ft4 and found it quite difficult to get comfortable in the 911, my legs kept getting in the way of the steering wheel. The Turbo its self is very impressive, but not quite as quick as I imagined it would be. I guess you really need longer than 30 minutes to get a complete feeling for the car.
On the way back from the AFN, I decided to take a detour via Mole Valley and see if the Noble was in. I wanted to see how comfortable It was compared to the 911. As ever they guys at Mole Valley were more than helpful, and it turned out they had had a spare slot for another test drive. So off I went again in the Noble. It was everything I remember it being.
Now having driven both cars back to back I can make a fair comparison. The Turbo is a lovely car, very competent and quick. The Noble on the other hand is the car for me, the acceleration and feel of the car are awesome, that coupled with that fact that’s its half the price of the 911 and that I can comfortable fit in the car, swings the decision.
All I have to do now, is start saving.
Thanks for everyone’s opinions
Cheers
Michael
At present I have a modified MR2 Turbo and in the process of selling it, to get someone thing more exotic.
At the end of last year I went to Mole valley and test drove an Noble, only the 2.5L though. Now whilst I was impressed with the handling, I was seriously unimpressed with its speed. More to the point I was completely gutted. I had seriously set my heart on buying one, I love the shape, but it just did not impress me, it felt maginally faster than my MR2 Turbo.
This has left me in a bit of a quandry, since then I have told myself to give the Noble a second chance and test drive the 3.0l.
I can only conclude that the car I test drove was not up to par, as I certainly dont believe it would hit 60 in 3.9 seconds.
And if im going to spend 50k I want to be impressed with the car.
At the end of last year I went to Mole valley and test drove an Noble, only the 2.5L though. Now whilst I was impressed with the handling, I was seriously unimpressed with its speed. More to the point I was completely gutted. I had seriously set my heart on buying one, I love the shape, but it just did not impress me, it felt maginally faster than my MR2 Turbo.
This has left me in a bit of a quandry, since then I have told myself to give the Noble a second chance and test drive the 3.0l.
I can only conclude that the car I test drove was not up to par, as I certainly dont believe it would hit 60 in 3.9 seconds.
And if im going to spend 50k I want to be impressed with the car.
Dakkon - sure you were pressing the pedal down????? I cannot believe you think that a Noble is the same as a MR2 - unless you have had some serious 450+bhp work done on your MR2.
Qtr mile is 12.5 for the Noble, 14.8 for MR2 Turbo - a big difference.
See www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/1990-12-mt-h.jpg for the MR2 test, www.syclone.freeserve.co.uk/rivals_cars.htm for the Noble figures.
J
>> Edited by joust on Monday 12th May 17:41
Qtr mile is 12.5 for the Noble, 14.8 for MR2 Turbo - a big difference.
See www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/1990-12-mt-h.jpg for the MR2 test, www.syclone.freeserve.co.uk/rivals_cars.htm for the Noble figures.
J
>> Edited by joust on Monday 12th May 17:41
Dakko
I had a similar experience with an early demo model. It turned out that the car (and several others) weren't getting full throttle. Once this was sorted the car was a revelation - this was a 2.5L car. I would certainly give it another go with a well sorted later car..............
I had a similar experience with an early demo model. It turned out that the car (and several others) weren't getting full throttle. Once this was sorted the car was a revelation - this was a 2.5L car. I would certainly give it another go with a well sorted later car..............
Tony_996hasgone said: Went out with Joust at Bruntingthorpe, so do have an impression of it's "speed"..... if you mean vmax, then I'd agree 161mph is pathetic.... however the acceleration gave, what was arguably, the biggest shove in the back on the day (only matched by Dazren's 996).
Sorry, Antoninus; I must protest at the injustice being accorded to the luddites amongst us stuck with air conditioned cooling chillonics.
Because there just may have been something just ever so slightly more flashing ito the pre-aerodynamic drag zone vector.
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