Gearchanges - Noble vs. Smart
Discussion
Ok a bit tongue in cheek here. But I'm having all sorts of trouble changing gear quickly in the Noble. It's a Ford box and should change quickly and smoothly, but I swear that my Smart changes gear quicker.
It's a tad frustrating since with quick 1st-2nd and 2nd-3rd shifts, this car would shred anything on the road short of a bike or an extreme Caterham.
Perhaps I have funny shape arms but I also get badly tangled up with the handbrake when changing from 1st to 2nd.
2nd to 3rd is simply slow, I need to wiggle the stick around to make sure I get the right slot (oo-err, didn't intend double entendre there, squire
)
Any ideas? Is it standard on all M12s or just 2.5 litre cars? The other alternative of forgetting 1st gear and pulling off in 2nd - I don't fancy this as if I want a quick getaway, I can see it trashing the clutch. I don't fancy Ferrari-style clutch longevity...
It's a tad frustrating since with quick 1st-2nd and 2nd-3rd shifts, this car would shred anything on the road short of a bike or an extreme Caterham.
Perhaps I have funny shape arms but I also get badly tangled up with the handbrake when changing from 1st to 2nd.
2nd to 3rd is simply slow, I need to wiggle the stick around to make sure I get the right slot (oo-err, didn't intend double entendre there, squire
) Any ideas? Is it standard on all M12s or just 2.5 litre cars? The other alternative of forgetting 1st gear and pulling off in 2nd - I don't fancy this as if I want a quick getaway, I can see it trashing the clutch. I don't fancy Ferrari-style clutch longevity...
Joust has recorded his thoughts on this, here www.lotus-elise.org.uk/noble and can probably give you a more up to date position on it now. As for other owners no idea on their particular knowledge.
>> Edited by tuscansix on Saturday 19th April 17:48
>> Edited by tuscansix on Saturday 19th April 17:48
)
It gets a lot better !
Mine was rubbish for the first 1500 miles, 2nd to 3rd was more a case of luck than judgement but is now superbly slick with just the right amount of notchiness to indicate that the gear is fully engaged. The trick i use is to rest my left hand on the handbrake for shifting quickly into 2nd
Mine was rubbish for the first 1500 miles, 2nd to 3rd was more a case of luck than judgement but is now superbly slick with just the right amount of notchiness to indicate that the gear is fully engaged. The trick i use is to rest my left hand on the handbrake for shifting quickly into 2nd
It's all about treating the box as you would a dog cut one - i.e. be *very* firm with the change, and very quick.
2nd to 3rd is the strangest. As the box is cable driven rather than linkage, if you are slow you will have to allow a "pause" between 2nd and 3rd for the cable's to move the selector lever on the box across -however if you just grab hold of the stick and physically move it in a single, diagonal, motion then you'll find it will sort itself out.
Practice makes perfect - and also I find it easier to change gear with my arm "above" the handbrake rather than to the side or below.
J
2nd to 3rd is the strangest. As the box is cable driven rather than linkage, if you are slow you will have to allow a "pause" between 2nd and 3rd for the cable's to move the selector lever on the box across -however if you just grab hold of the stick and physically move it in a single, diagonal, motion then you'll find it will sort itself out.
Practice makes perfect - and also I find it easier to change gear with my arm "above" the handbrake rather than to the side or below.
J
stuh said:
My 2.5 is going in to have the power upgrade from my dealer whilst i'm away on my hols
How old is your M12? I asked Noble themselves about this and they said that my car could not be upgraded (No.73) aparently only the early cars can (I think it's no. 43 and below although I can't remember excatly).
stuh
The tuscan S has raw power (400bhp) and very fast indeed but after a new engine - new clutch - 4 throttle cables and only 8000 miles well it was time to move on !!!!!
The noble is just as fast but a lot smoother with the power but as we are all aware u have to be very smooth with the power as when the turbos kick in they just make the bloody wheels spin in any gear change!!
happy motoring on these sunny days
The tuscan S has raw power (400bhp) and very fast indeed but after a new engine - new clutch - 4 throttle cables and only 8000 miles well it was time to move on !!!!!
The noble is just as fast but a lot smoother with the power but as we are all aware u have to be very smooth with the power as when the turbos kick in they just make the bloody wheels spin in any gear change!!
happy motoring on these sunny days
Well just took my business partner out for a thrash. He is (luckily) also a bit of a petrolhead, otherwise no doubt the Noble would have made him ill.
Joust - you are right, (as expected) the fastest way to change gear is to be brutal. This doesn't come naturally to me as I tend to be more mechanically sympathetic. Any idea whether the 'sod it, force the gear in' approach will knacker the gearbox?? Either that or stretch / screw the cables??
Funnily (or not) enough, I can make a very fast and smooth shift from 4th to 3rd. Let's hope I can get away with 3rd and 4th only at Brands on the 28th April!!!!!!
Joust - you are right, (as expected) the fastest way to change gear is to be brutal. This doesn't come naturally to me as I tend to be more mechanically sympathetic. Any idea whether the 'sod it, force the gear in' approach will knacker the gearbox?? Either that or stretch / screw the cables??
Funnily (or not) enough, I can make a very fast and smooth shift from 4th to 3rd. Let's hope I can get away with 3rd and 4th only at Brands on the 28th April!!!!!!
Guy
Not able to look at the mo as my car is at the dealer and i'm in Whistler !
However when i disucssed with JNM and then Noble themselves the management system you have depends what and how the car is modified but my understanding is that ALL cars can now benefit from this. Mine has the later config, not that employed on earlier cars...
Cheers
Stu
Not able to look at the mo as my car is at the dealer and i'm in Whistler !
However when i disucssed with JNM and then Noble themselves the management system you have depends what and how the car is modified but my understanding is that ALL cars can now benefit from this. Mine has the later config, not that employed on earlier cars...
Cheers
Stu
what are they proposing to do, Just turn up the boost? and add a more free flowing exhaust in order to prevent the lag being too servre? I was told about three weeks ago there was absolutly no way they could 'upgrade' my car easily...
stuh said: Guy
Not able to look at the mo as my car is at the dealer and i'm in Whistler !
However when i disucssed with JNM and then Noble themselves the management system you have depends what and how the car is modified but my understanding is that ALL cars can now benefit from this. Mine has the later config, not that employed on earlier cars...
Cheers
Stu
Possibly an area in need of some development ? Neil Foreman seems to be able to perform miracles with linkages and, since he manufacturers a Noble design, would seem a logical choice to help with this ?
My wife seems to have decided to go for a Noble M12 as her next car (we have just had a 'garage sale' and trimmed the fleet down a bit) as she decided against a Tuscan. She is too much of a driver to be running a dragster rather than a go-cart. Not in any way intended as a dig at TVR, simply that the Noble is a more handling biased creation.
My wife seems to have decided to go for a Noble M12 as her next car (we have just had a 'garage sale' and trimmed the fleet down a bit) as she decided against a Tuscan. She is too much of a driver to be running a dragster rather than a go-cart. Not in any way intended as a dig at TVR, simply that the Noble is a more handling biased creation.
If you have seen the cables that the Noble uses - no chance!
DanH said:
The Elise has a cable linkage too. General consensus is to not force it as it stretches cables and bends bits of the linkage.
Dunno whether the noble is suspectible to the same, but I wouldn't be surprised =/
Look at www.lotus-elise.org.uk/m12/P1010484.JPG
See those two *huge* cables coming over the top of the engine (one has a bit of red heat shield on it) and then going in-between the dark blue induction pipe and the dark blue coolant pipes - *that* is the gear change cables. At least 20mm if not more in diameter!
No way are you going to stretch those with your little hands!
Compared to the puny Elise ones (which are more like push bike brake cables) this is correctly engineered.
J
Nooooo - please don't change it!
jondokic said: Possibly an area in need of some development ? Neil Foreman seems to be able to perform miracles with linkages and, since he manufacturers a Noble design, would seem a logical choice to help with this ?
I found it very very strange, but having now used the gears in anger doing fast runs down the Bruntingthorpe straight, one thing many of my passengers commented on was the speed of gear changes - esp. 3rd to 4th.
Smoothing the change out would surely make it slower, and after your brain works it out the changes are actually smooth.
J
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