traction control ? a realistic option for us novices
Discussion
I bought my M400 in March 2006 and like so many owners was initially blown away by this car. I must admit however to then having one or two really scary moments that came out of the blue when I wasnt pressing on( back end coming past me etc) circumnavigating roundabouts at low speed when the road surface was only slightly damp that shocked me as having previously been used to 4 wheel drive this never happens.
I had already planned to get the Rouch exhaust ,bov and other upgrades done at some stage and after chatting to one or two of the well known Noble upgrade experts I took my car over to Pete Dibble of Noble Motorsport in Chesterfield for its 1000 mile service and a few "tweaks".
Having just picked up the car I can say it has undergone a major transformation -its been fitted with a Motec 400m ecu that provides not only launch control but also oversees a fully adjustable traction control system. As well the car now has 3 adjustable boost settings at .5, .7 and .9 bar and allied to the rouch exhaust, remap on the motec, intercooler etc the car's acceleration is truely awesome. The car is currently producing 493bhp at 6500 revs and 430 lbft torque at 5300 revs but most importantly the car feels safer and alot more manageable. Next yr I do intend to get some instruction on how to drive this beast with the traction control off on a race track but until then I can now drive my Noble with alot more confidence.
Probably some of you noblites think I'm a bit of a pussy but id rather be honest and admit to my current lack of ability in the standard car with semi slick tyres on a wet road rather then end up in field or perhaps hospital- perhaps traction control has crossed the mind of some of you or am I the only softy Walter in the class?? .
As an aside I just want to reiterate overall the Noble is in my humble opinion for the money a truely special car-up until yesturday when i picked it up and drove it back to Manchester I'd not driven it for about 1 month whilst Peter and his team were working on it -on driving home it felt like a go cart on speed -the feel of the road through the steering wheel is addictive and at full boost the car is extremely quick( approx. 570+bhp/metric ton)-
I like many others before me thank Lee Noble for producing such a great car
Cheers Dave
I had already planned to get the Rouch exhaust ,bov and other upgrades done at some stage and after chatting to one or two of the well known Noble upgrade experts I took my car over to Pete Dibble of Noble Motorsport in Chesterfield for its 1000 mile service and a few "tweaks".
Having just picked up the car I can say it has undergone a major transformation -its been fitted with a Motec 400m ecu that provides not only launch control but also oversees a fully adjustable traction control system. As well the car now has 3 adjustable boost settings at .5, .7 and .9 bar and allied to the rouch exhaust, remap on the motec, intercooler etc the car's acceleration is truely awesome. The car is currently producing 493bhp at 6500 revs and 430 lbft torque at 5300 revs but most importantly the car feels safer and alot more manageable. Next yr I do intend to get some instruction on how to drive this beast with the traction control off on a race track but until then I can now drive my Noble with alot more confidence.
Probably some of you noblites think I'm a bit of a pussy but id rather be honest and admit to my current lack of ability in the standard car with semi slick tyres on a wet road rather then end up in field or perhaps hospital- perhaps traction control has crossed the mind of some of you or am I the only softy Walter in the class?? .
As an aside I just want to reiterate overall the Noble is in my humble opinion for the money a truely special car-up until yesturday when i picked it up and drove it back to Manchester I'd not driven it for about 1 month whilst Peter and his team were working on it -on driving home it felt like a go cart on speed -the feel of the road through the steering wheel is addictive and at full boost the car is extremely quick( approx. 570+bhp/metric ton)-
I like many others before me thank Lee Noble for producing such a great car
Cheers Dave
i think a very well experieced driver would probably like to drive with the traction control off - but 500 horses through the rear wheels will always need some skill to keep it in a stright line if you are pushing on in the bends
big power in 4wd and fwd usually results in understerr which tells you to get off the loud pedal to get the car back under check
however lifting off the loud pedal when in oversteer on a powerful rwd car sometimes has different results !!
I think you have probably done the right thing - fitted boost control and traction control - this way you can switch it on if you want to
i've got big power planned for next year and will definatly be considering traction control and a driving course to sharpen up my skills
out of interest - what did it cost to have the new ecu fitted and mapped ?
big power in 4wd and fwd usually results in understerr which tells you to get off the loud pedal to get the car back under check
however lifting off the loud pedal when in oversteer on a powerful rwd car sometimes has different results !!
I think you have probably done the right thing - fitted boost control and traction control - this way you can switch it on if you want to
i've got big power planned for next year and will definatly be considering traction control and a driving course to sharpen up my skills
out of interest - what did it cost to have the new ecu fitted and mapped ?
Edited by gadgeroonie on Sunday 5th November 10:47
hi gadgeroonie-ive not got he invoices on me at present
i had alot done to it so diff to give you an exact breakdown on price but i guess the motec and mapping would be somewhere around 4 to 5 k
not alot to pay if it keeps you alive i say!!
why dont you have a word with noble motorsport in chesterfield
im sure theyll give you a more exact quote
having done mine it will be easier for them to quote on labour costs as mine was the first theyve done it will poss be cheaper and quicker on labour the next time they do it i assume
they had to build a few custom parts to fit to the wheels /axles etc
cheers dave
i had alot done to it so diff to give you an exact breakdown on price but i guess the motec and mapping would be somewhere around 4 to 5 k
not alot to pay if it keeps you alive i say!!
why dont you have a word with noble motorsport in chesterfield
im sure theyll give you a more exact quote
having done mine it will be easier for them to quote on labour costs as mine was the first theyve done it will poss be cheaper and quicker on labour the next time they do it i assume
they had to build a few custom parts to fit to the wheels /axles etc
cheers dave
plipton said:
Have a word with SHPub - he put a race logic system on his Griffith and swears by it. You can set it for varying degrees of oversteer so you'll look like Tiffany Dell/Stig with the arse hanging out and on one will know you're not a pro 
I used to use a Racelogic clubman system with 720 bhp, still turned it off in the dry.
On a noble you would need to fit the ford hub abs discs and abs/hub sensors. If the motec unit has a traction control strategy and if it works, it's probably got a flat shifter and launch control as well.
You’re still better off getting the hang of the car and understanding how it behaves, once you get the hang of it, the car is very predictable.
An M400 on a cold wet morning on cold tyres is a pig and would drive the traction control nuts making it very uncomfortable, On those days I would take something else out.
Adrian
hi kinetic
i bought the car with the intention of letting my family and friends drive it as well but after having a few moments realised that potentially it was poss lethal in the wrong hands so to speak
now the car with the flick of a switch and boost control is much safer and i can breath a sigh of relief if my ptner wants to drive it
next yr ill learn to drive it but as was needing to go into garage for service etc at some point and just moved house( wanted rid of car for a few weeks as garage full of s..t) thought id get it all done job lot at same time
saves messing about next yr
cheers
i bought the car with the intention of letting my family and friends drive it as well but after having a few moments realised that potentially it was poss lethal in the wrong hands so to speak
now the car with the flick of a switch and boost control is much safer and i can breath a sigh of relief if my ptner wants to drive it
next yr ill learn to drive it but as was needing to go into garage for service etc at some point and just moved house( wanted rid of car for a few weeks as garage full of s..t) thought id get it all done job lot at same time
saves messing about next yr
cheers
Edited by m400dgg on Sunday 5th November 13:12
570+bhp/metric ton from 493bhp? You sure?
Anyway, for everyday use I can see the point if you only have one car, driving home in the hammering rain at 2am when it is dark and you are tired etc. You aren't always in the mood to drive hard.
Having said that I agree with the above poster that adding that much extra power seems a bit silly when you've not yet got bored of the standard power output.
Your car, you set it up how you want at the end of the day, good luck to you.
Anyway, for everyday use I can see the point if you only have one car, driving home in the hammering rain at 2am when it is dark and you are tired etc. You aren't always in the mood to drive hard.
Having said that I agree with the above poster that adding that much extra power seems a bit silly when you've not yet got bored of the standard power output.
Your car, you set it up how you want at the end of the day, good luck to you.
I've personally can't understand the need for traction control. I have rarely seen the 'good driving light' on the X5, and don't feel the need for it on the M400.
If it's wet, or you are tired, just use higher gears and the right foot less, and more importantly, SLOW DOWN.
Good luck with your mods, but now you do have traction control, are you going to bin it in the nearest hedge when it gets it wrong? Please please remember you cannot rewrite the laws of physics, and if you are losing the rear end a lot, then please please get some proper driver training.
Major cars traction control takes years and years of setting up, and £millions or £10s millions in costs. No disrespect to Noble Motorsport, but they just won't have undertaken the same amount of testing for every single condition. There is therefore going to be no way it will know what to do for every time you get it wrong, and now you have it, will you slowly come to rely on it???
You say the ECU cost 4-5k. Now that would have given you 7-10 days of professional driver training that would be valuable in whatever car you drive (and I see you have 4), rather than just your Noble. Wouldn't even spending £500-£1k on a Ride Drive course or similar have been a better place to start?
Take care, the M400 is seriously fast and demands respect in standard trim. With you increasing the power you clearly need to treat it with even more respect. Ultimately you aren't a woos, but I can't help thinking you would have been better off spending the money on driver training.
J
If it's wet, or you are tired, just use higher gears and the right foot less, and more importantly, SLOW DOWN.
Good luck with your mods, but now you do have traction control, are you going to bin it in the nearest hedge when it gets it wrong? Please please remember you cannot rewrite the laws of physics, and if you are losing the rear end a lot, then please please get some proper driver training.
Major cars traction control takes years and years of setting up, and £millions or £10s millions in costs. No disrespect to Noble Motorsport, but they just won't have undertaken the same amount of testing for every single condition. There is therefore going to be no way it will know what to do for every time you get it wrong, and now you have it, will you slowly come to rely on it???
You say the ECU cost 4-5k. Now that would have given you 7-10 days of professional driver training that would be valuable in whatever car you drive (and I see you have 4), rather than just your Noble. Wouldn't even spending £500-£1k on a Ride Drive course or similar have been a better place to start?
Take care, the M400 is seriously fast and demands respect in standard trim. With you increasing the power you clearly need to treat it with even more respect. Ultimately you aren't a woos, but I can't help thinking you would have been better off spending the money on driver training.
J
Edited by joust on Sunday 5th November 17:13
Traction control ... hmmm if it makes it safer it's a nice idea.
What might help you get more grip is to talk to Roush/Plans about getting the geometry sorted. If it's like all the other M400s I've seen, including mine, you'll only be using 1/3 of the tyre. Roush and Plans charge around 1000 GBP plus VAT for this. You will easily get the money back on tyre wear savings alone if you do trackdays.
Also, assuming the car weighs 1060 kg (mine ways 1160 without the aircon)...
425 / 1.06 = 400 bhp/metric tonne, i.e. the orginal headline figure.
493 / 1.06 = 465 bhp/metric tonne ... it's still very good but it isn't 570.
Finally, I should be on commission... try www.carlimits.com with traction control off.
--
Richard
What might help you get more grip is to talk to Roush/Plans about getting the geometry sorted. If it's like all the other M400s I've seen, including mine, you'll only be using 1/3 of the tyre. Roush and Plans charge around 1000 GBP plus VAT for this. You will easily get the money back on tyre wear savings alone if you do trackdays.
Also, assuming the car weighs 1060 kg (mine ways 1160 without the aircon)...
425 / 1.06 = 400 bhp/metric tonne, i.e. the orginal headline figure.
493 / 1.06 = 465 bhp/metric tonne ... it's still very good but it isn't 570.
Finally, I should be on commission... try www.carlimits.com with traction control off.
--
Richard
cheers joust for those thoughtful words
sad fact is mate i literally dont have time as yet to get any professional driver training
i take fully on board your sentiments however and as soon as i can i will get some good rear wheel drive driver instruction so i properly enjoy the noble
cheers
sad fact is mate i literally dont have time as yet to get any professional driver training
i take fully on board your sentiments however and as soon as i can i will get some good rear wheel drive driver instruction so i properly enjoy the noble
cheers
Traction control in wet, slippy conditions really just lets you go faster. Just allows you to ram it harder into something when you get the braking wrong.....
For a good deal more safety in the winter months some more tread-ed tyres work well. Not so good for track days of course but with the Dunlops I'm running at the moment, even standing water isn't an issue.
For a good deal more safety in the winter months some more tread-ed tyres work well. Not so good for track days of course but with the Dunlops I'm running at the moment, even standing water isn't an issue.
chillidog said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
but with the Dunlops I'm running at the moment, even standing water isn't an issue.
Phil
Which ones are you using?
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Richard
. Black, round, free....I'll have 'em! They're actually very good, ignoring the price! They'll probably go off like S03's on the track, but it's not a track tyre so I'll let them off.Gassing Station | Noble | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff