Negative Camber

[diceman]

Hello folks,

I'm aware this has been mentioned before in threads over uneven tyre wear but just wanted to get some more current opinions on this. My personal experience is that there seems to be a lot of outside edge tyre wear following track use, both at the front and less so at the back. I also feel that the front end could be a little more pointy than it is.

I know that some people are running with more negative camber, Stevert, the uk garage car and Paul C? These cars (i think) are predominately track cars. What do these guys feel are the improvements, how much are you using, and is there anyone else doing this?

My car is used daily, and i'd hate to ruin the lovely on road manners.. but i'm sure there must be some room for a better setup, without doing too much harm to the balance of road/track?

One other thing, i'm sure Lee did get these things spot on in the first place, but are all customer cars setup to the same extent?

Cheers for the help
Steve

[paulcundy]

diceman said:

Hello folks,

I'm aware this has been mentioned before in threads over uneven tyre wear but just wanted to get some more current opinions on this. My personal experience is that there seems to be a lot of outside edge tyre wear following track use, both at the front and less so at the back. I also feel that the front end could be a little more pointy than it is.

I know that some people are running with more negative camber, Stevert, the uk garage car and Paul C? These cars (i think) are predominately track cars. What do these guys feel are the improvements, how much are you using, and is there anyone else doing this?

My car is used daily, and i'd hate to ruin the lovely on road manners.. but i'm sure there must be some room for a better setup, without doing too much harm to the balance of road/track?

One other thing, i'm sure Lee did get these things spot on in the first place, but are all customer cars setup to the same extent?

Cheers for the help
Steve

I have more but I don't know how much and my man does all that sort of stuff. Before you go down this route are you using the right tyre pressures?
Regards
PauL C

[robp]

Steve - AFAIK there is no scope for altering camber on standard suspension set-up. It is 'locked' at about 0.5deg -ve (so almost completely neutral -and you wouldn't expect to see uneven tyre wear with this). If you're wearing out only near side front and rear -this maybe one or a combination of 1)too many clock-wise track-days(!) 2)incorrect tyre pressures (as suggested by Paul C) 3) entry speed abit too enthusiastic 4)staying out too long (over-heating tyres)5) Other worn suspension components (ball-joints etc). Solution to 1) is to have a few sessions at Rockingham and or Bedford GT (only anti-clockwise circuits in the UK)to even up wear on the off-side

[adrian w]

Roush do an increased camber mod i think its 2.5 degrees front and 3.00 at the back, very track focused, huge amounts of gripp and the car still doesnt follow the camber on the road.

[marshy98]

I went on a car limit day with Andy Walsh with the Noble a few weeks back, he said he had done development work on a adjustable setup, not too sure which company it was for though ?

Paul

[V6GTO]

marshy98 said:

I went on a car limit day with Andy Walsh with the Noble a few weeks back, he said he had done development work on a adjustable setup, not too sure which company it was for though ?

Paul

That was with the Nitrons.

Martin.

[paulcundy]

marshy98 said:

Andy Walsh had done development work on a adjustable setup, not too sure which company it was for though ?

Paul

History lesson.
Andy Walshe did this work with and on Andy Glover, an early Noble owner, 2.5 car. They got to a set of adjustable wishbones but ANdy G moved on and I took on the project. The wishbones were on my car a couple of years back. We've now moved on to a dfferent design and Graham has since designed a version 3 which is a shim adjusted set.
Regards
Paul C

[joust]

Micknall did talk to me at length about this. Sure, you can even out the wear, but it's all a compromise between road and track.

As people have commented, if you aren't pressing on, and have the suspension really loaded up, the 3R is arguably the better 'b-road' car. The M400 was the best it seems that Noble could balance between keeping that 3R capability on bumpy, pothole, classic b roads and increasing the track capability.

Some drivers won't mind loosing on-road manners for better track day tyre wear, and as said above, a few aftermarket people have developed solutions for it. If you know what you are doing, and prepared for the other impacts camber adjustments will have, then there seems to be quite a few solutions if you want a more track focused car.

Alternativly, ensure you don't cook the tyres, don't over barrel into corners before the camber (my particular perchant for scrubbing off the fronts ) and do a few days at Bedford for every other track seems to be a pretty good recipe for getting even wear!

J

[diceman]

Thanks for the replys guys,

Think my tyre pressures are ok, I know how sensitive the 400 is to small changes. I do know how easy it is to go in a bit hot and scrub off the tyres as well so i'm trying hard not to do that.

Can't help feeling though that my old 3r had less (read no understeer ) with the same driving style. The ball joint point is a good one, how does it present it's symptoms if they are tired? I do get some very faint clunks through the steering. Most noticeable at low speed and when loading the steering, eg when turning and going up a multi-story ramp.. could this be a cause?

Steve

[V6GTO]

diceman said:

Can't help feeling though that my old 3r had less (read no understeer )

That'll be because you now have a front anti-roll bar that isn't on 3Rs (well...all except mine )

Martin.

[joust]

diceman said:

Can't help feeling though that my old 3r had less (read no understeer ) with the same driving style. The ball joint point is a good one, how does it present it's symptoms if they are tired? I do get some very faint clunks through the steering. Most noticeable at low speed and when loading the steering, eg when turning and going up a multi-story ramp.. could this be a cause?

Jack up the front. Grab the wheel at quarterpast three, rock it backward and forward, side to side. Repeat at halfpast twelve hand position. If they are on their way out you'll soon notice the movement.

J

[diceman]

Cheers Joust, will have a go at that.