Just joined! Engine removed! what mods (if any)?
Discussion
Hi to everyone reading this, I have just joined the forum, having read with interest for a number of years the comments other have made about the incorrigible Noble M12. Now at long last I have bought one! I tried the very same 6 years ago, and at that time I could afford a 2.5 but admired the 3R so thought I’d wait, then 3 years ago I tried again but just couldn’t find an example that I liked (I did but it was sold from under me) and bought a Porsche in the meantime (yawn). In truth it has seemed even harder finding an example now than then, and prices seem pretty much unchanged (despite cars getting older).
The people on this forum have provided a wealth and depth of information, without which the whole process (of buying a Noble) would have been that much more difficult. I am slowly working my way through the topics (on page 105 so far!), but I have an initial question. The gear change is sometimes difficult when the car is warm. The Garage (Bespoke) as part of the purchase are removing the engine and sending the gearbox to a specialized company to be checked and repaired if/as necessary. At the same time they are replacing the clutch.
Whilst the engine is removed I thought perhaps it might be a good opportunity to carry out some modifications, but wouldn’t really know which! Reading through the forum I was thinking possibly the gear linkage and tunnel cooling Mod but is there anything else that comes to mind?
The car is a 2003 GT0-3R 45,000 Miles and has NMS exhaust/ hard pipes/ alloy header / intercooler / silicone hoses/ fuel pump done already. It has also been to Noble Motorsport and remapped to 415 BHP.
Thanks everybody on this forum for all the effort and time spent guiding people such as myself to join the Noble clan! I am in North Devon if there is anyone nearby.
One last thing, you may recognise the car as it belonged to Forum Member Slider 21.
The people on this forum have provided a wealth and depth of information, without which the whole process (of buying a Noble) would have been that much more difficult. I am slowly working my way through the topics (on page 105 so far!), but I have an initial question. The gear change is sometimes difficult when the car is warm. The Garage (Bespoke) as part of the purchase are removing the engine and sending the gearbox to a specialized company to be checked and repaired if/as necessary. At the same time they are replacing the clutch.
Whilst the engine is removed I thought perhaps it might be a good opportunity to carry out some modifications, but wouldn’t really know which! Reading through the forum I was thinking possibly the gear linkage and tunnel cooling Mod but is there anything else that comes to mind?
The car is a 2003 GT0-3R 45,000 Miles and has NMS exhaust/ hard pipes/ alloy header / intercooler / silicone hoses/ fuel pump done already. It has also been to Noble Motorsport and remapped to 415 BHP.
Thanks everybody on this forum for all the effort and time spent guiding people such as myself to join the Noble clan! I am in North Devon if there is anyone nearby.
One last thing, you may recognise the car as it belonged to Forum Member Slider 21.
Welcome.
Interesting that they agreed to remove engine to investigate gear box as this issue is sometime down to the material of the cable sheath getting caught in with the cables, maybe ther checked that.
I think what u ask depends on budget.
Here is a stab at a few things:
Upgrade clutch in case you go for bigger power (definitely do)
Get gearbox upgraded by the gearbox man with cooling points added (best done now so later or now u can have oil cooler fitted For track work) (definetly do)
Forged Pistons (expensive), think u can run about 500 on std internals
Uprated internal bearings if doing Pistons.
Valve springs upgraded (for when running more power), definetly do
Injector upgrade (think u can get away with std for 500 bhp, but if u go the piston route so more like 600bhp then think u will need to do this)
Engine oil cooler if u want to do track work
Get some extra gauges fitted for oil temp/pressure as it will be easier with engine out.
New turbos (I would definetly do this if u want 500+bhp)
M400 timing mod and maybe CAMs (definetly do)
There the things to consider while engine is out. I have probably missed some thing but I hope they would be things u can do with engine in like cooling mods.
Bondy
Interesting that they agreed to remove engine to investigate gear box as this issue is sometime down to the material of the cable sheath getting caught in with the cables, maybe ther checked that.
I think what u ask depends on budget.
Here is a stab at a few things:
Upgrade clutch in case you go for bigger power (definitely do)
Get gearbox upgraded by the gearbox man with cooling points added (best done now so later or now u can have oil cooler fitted For track work) (definetly do)
Forged Pistons (expensive), think u can run about 500 on std internals
Uprated internal bearings if doing Pistons.
Valve springs upgraded (for when running more power), definetly do
Injector upgrade (think u can get away with std for 500 bhp, but if u go the piston route so more like 600bhp then think u will need to do this)
Engine oil cooler if u want to do track work
Get some extra gauges fitted for oil temp/pressure as it will be easier with engine out.
New turbos (I would definetly do this if u want 500+bhp)
M400 timing mod and maybe CAMs (definetly do)
There the things to consider while engine is out. I have probably missed some thing but I hope they would be things u can do with engine in like cooling mods.
Bondy
Why thank you Bernhund! And Bondy, thank you for the ideas and recommendations. I am not sure about more power, my mind boggles when I read about the power some people manage to produce and reliably (in addition to other mods like the carbon fibre pieces being made by members - very gifted). When I went for a test drive I was already grinning like a Cheshire cat throughout and I think if it had gone any faster I might have slunk all the way into the foot well. I will look to have the gauges fitted however and perhaps the connections for an oil cooler (for the gearbox). Do you think this is worth doing at the currently rated power of 415 BHP? Likewise would you look to have the gearbox upgraded at the current power output?
Many thanks again for your ideas, I know time is precious and the more established members are probably having to repeat themselves over and over again for the benefit of us wide eyed and excitable newcomers!
Many thanks again for your ideas, I know time is precious and the more established members are probably having to repeat themselves over and over again for the benefit of us wide eyed and excitable newcomers!
Hi GTO600 - Wonderful, what great news to hear someone so close by has a Noble, and having had the car for so long. I have just moved from Ilfracombe to Roborough (other side of High Bickington), so am very near your good self. I am amazed I haven't seen your car out and about, I have been back in Barnstaple area for the past 15 years or so!(you would have noticed me had I seen you, as I would have been running down the road after you just to get a look!). Can I ask where you get the car serviced? I would love to meet, see your car, and pry some valuable knowledge from you! Perhaps for a beer at the Tarka Inn (although I think its called something else now).
Chris Ho said:
Why thank you Bernhund! And Bondy, thank you for the ideas and recommendations. I am not sure about more power, my mind boggles when I read about the power some people manage to produce and reliably (in addition to other mods like the carbon fibre pieces being made by members - very gifted). When I went for a test drive I was already grinning like a Cheshire cat throughout and I think if it had gone any faster I might have slunk all the way into the foot well. I will look to have the gauges fitted however and perhaps the connections for an oil cooler (for the gearbox). Do you think this is worth doing at the currently rated power of 415 BHP? Likewise would you look to have the gearbox upgraded at the current power output?
Many thanks again for your ideas, I know time is precious and the more established members are probably having to repeat themselves over and over again for the benefit of us wide eyed and excitable newcomers!
Because the gearbox is out then get it upgraded and also upgraded clutch. It's worth doing for piece of mind and it's so easy to up the power then u know it's done as its a big job to do again. Many thanks again for your ideas, I know time is precious and the more established members are probably having to repeat themselves over and over again for the benefit of us wide eyed and excitable newcomers!
My advice is to do the definetly bits.
Chris Ho said:
Hi GTO600 - Wonderful, what great news to hear someone so close by has a Noble, and having had the car for so long. I have just moved from Ilfracombe to Roborough (other side of High Bickington), so am very near your good self. I am amazed I haven't seen your car out and about, I have been back in Barnstaple area for the past 15 years or so!(you would have noticed me had I seen you, as I would have been running down the road after you just to get a look!). Can I ask where you get the car serviced? I would love to meet, see your car, and pry some valuable knowledge from you! Perhaps for a beer at the Tarka Inn (although I think its called something else now).
You need to get out more as there was a black one in the town also but that's now sold.Happy to meet for a
welcome to the forum 
best people to ask would be Skip at Bespoke as your getting the work done there as they are very good and he's experienced at doing mods
GTO600 is also a very very useful person to have on your doorstep as he has one of the top modified nobles in europe, also he has a knack for having loads of useful parts for sale in his garage
In truth you need to decide what you want to do with the car over the next year or so... if you want the whole hog and go for a fire breathing monster then you should spend money now in preparation for that stripping engine replacing internals, beefing up the gearbox etc etc.
if your happy with the power and just want to future proof it for mild mods later then getting oil cooling adapters put into the box now while its apart will be cheap and will mean you can fit coolers later if needed (a must over 500bhp imo)... upgrading the clutch would be a good idea as stock is only reliable to about your current power (can hold more but not recommended)... Id leave the cam timing, valve springs (done with cam timing), injectors etc till later as they will require an expensive remap.
Personally I would do mild mods now without increasing the power and not get sucked into heavy modifications at this stage until you know if you fall in love as it can become expensive as the cars are so tuneable.
best people to ask would be Skip at Bespoke as your getting the work done there as they are very good and he's experienced at doing mods
GTO600 is also a very very useful person to have on your doorstep as he has one of the top modified nobles in europe, also he has a knack for having loads of useful parts for sale in his garage
In truth you need to decide what you want to do with the car over the next year or so... if you want the whole hog and go for a fire breathing monster then you should spend money now in preparation for that stripping engine replacing internals, beefing up the gearbox etc etc.
if your happy with the power and just want to future proof it for mild mods later then getting oil cooling adapters put into the box now while its apart will be cheap and will mean you can fit coolers later if needed (a must over 500bhp imo)... upgrading the clutch would be a good idea as stock is only reliable to about your current power (can hold more but not recommended)... Id leave the cam timing, valve springs (done with cam timing), injectors etc till later as they will require an expensive remap.
Personally I would do mild mods now without increasing the power and not get sucked into heavy modifications at this stage until you know if you fall in love as it can become expensive as the cars are so tuneable.
Thanks Tuxman, it’s been a long time coming and I have admired everything about these cars for what feels like a millenium. I am a little nervous about the car having its engine removed and put back in again before I have even taken possession of it, but I do have confidence in the people at Bespoke. I have not met Skip as yet but Mark and Martin are good people I think (I have enjoyed meeting them both). Andygtt and Bondy, thank you both for your insight. In all honesty I don’t think adding to the power any further is really feasible for me and I was genuinely staggered at the performance as it stands now. I do appreciate (reading through the forum) that many people have begun their noble career feeling very much the same way, only then seeking more speed as the car becomes more familiar (and its fun and interesting getting there). I think from both your responses I might ask about an upgraded clutch however and the oil cooler adapters (you know just in case!).
GTO600 you should be careful what you wish for, before long you will have wished I had remained in obscurity! Really its great to have you in the same neighbourhood and I really hope we get chance to meet a long the way. I will do my best not to be a constant irritation at the outset (but knowing now how involved you are with these cars that’s going to be difficult!).
Thanks everyone for a warm welcome and for your thoughts to date.
GTO600 you should be careful what you wish for, before long you will have wished I had remained in obscurity! Really its great to have you in the same neighbourhood and I really hope we get chance to meet a long the way. I will do my best not to be a constant irritation at the outset (but knowing now how involved you are with these cars that’s going to be difficult!).
Thanks everyone for a warm welcome and for your thoughts to date.
Chris Ho said:
I am a little nervous about the car having its engine removed and put back in again before I have even taken possession of it
Hi, welcome. Dont be nervous, any clutch change is an engine out job anyway, id have thought 10+ years at c.350 bhp on a mondeo clutch would see most cars have had it out at some point.Tuxman takes his out every week!
Welcome, nice wheels
Doing some work when the engine out is sound advice, if not just to save yourself another labor bill in a few years.
I had no intention of putting mine on a track until some sod/kind person took me round silverstone and showed me how good the Noble is.
I'm reluctant to put mine on a track without coolers, so I'm waiting until something breaks before I do.
Plenty of other jobs to do to keep me busy.
My suggestion is replacement HID headlights bulbs would be a good 1st project to break the screw drivers in, the original lights are shocking.
Doing some work when the engine out is sound advice, if not just to save yourself another labor bill in a few years.
I had no intention of putting mine on a track until some sod/kind person took me round silverstone and showed me how good the Noble is.
I'm reluctant to put mine on a track without coolers, so I'm waiting until something breaks before I do.
Plenty of other jobs to do to keep me busy.
My suggestion is replacement HID headlights bulbs would be a good 1st project to break the screw drivers in, the original lights are shocking.
Hi Chris
Welcome to the world of Nobles.
If im honest, out of all the cars ive had, this has been the most responsive/fanatical/slightly crazy at times, forum ive been part of.
You cant go wrong with advice from the big power boys, as they are really pushing and surpassing what noble ever imagined they would ever do.
With regards to Bespoke, they look after my car. They are honest and Skip knows his stuff. Im surprised if they are doing the engine work out of their own pocket, but if they are then it shows you they want to look after you.
Personally if it was me, while the engine was out I would do the clutch. Gearbox will be checked and improved so thats good. Maybe have the turbos serviced? Cooling is a good prep, even if you dont do it now. At 400+ bhp im sure you will have enough power, just improve on longevity.
Cheers
Steve
Welcome to the world of Nobles.
If im honest, out of all the cars ive had, this has been the most responsive/fanatical/slightly crazy at times, forum ive been part of.
You cant go wrong with advice from the big power boys, as they are really pushing and surpassing what noble ever imagined they would ever do.
With regards to Bespoke, they look after my car. They are honest and Skip knows his stuff. Im surprised if they are doing the engine work out of their own pocket, but if they are then it shows you they want to look after you.
Personally if it was me, while the engine was out I would do the clutch. Gearbox will be checked and improved so thats good. Maybe have the turbos serviced? Cooling is a good prep, even if you dont do it now. At 400+ bhp im sure you will have enough power, just improve on longevity.
Cheers
Steve
Welcom Chriss, Very nice car, saw it at Bespoke, best person to ask is Skip, he will only give you good advice,he works on mine, and mine is also one of the top powered cars in Europe at a reliable 700bhp,so you are in safe hands,and Martin is a diamond who will go out his way to help you. as folk have said here, clutch a must, Worth doing gearbox to, exhaust is a must to, due to the brackets that continue to break,
Tbh if you are not looking for further power gains, then you need go no further, but something tells me that the bug will bite, so chat to Skip about poss choices.
Enjoy
Tbh if you are not looking for further power gains, then you need go no further, but something tells me that the bug will bite, so chat to Skip about poss choices.
Enjoy
Hi SteveGTO3 - I have to pick up on your comment about the Noble Forum! As an outsider looking in (but now edging my way in), the forum is remarkable for many reasons. Just look at the first 5 people to welcome me - Bernlund, Andygtt, GTO600, Mgbond, and Tuxman; between them they have been on the forum and contributing for a cumulative period of over 50 years!! In addition between them they have made 25,234 posts!! This is just the first 5 who happened to respond, but there are many similar long standing contributors, constantly taking an interest and helping others. I am not aware of any other forum with such longevity and passion. Another remarkable thing, is the good humour and good will that runs throughout the forum. I am determined to read through all the posts and I am only in page 115 odd, but rarely is there any hard feelings or discord even when there is disagreement (the only slight fracas was about adding an additional radiator to stop water boiling in the header tank and around the turbos on shut down - I think that‘s what was being discussed, a bit above my head!).
All of this effort, interest and hard work has enabled the Noble to be far more, far better than it was even at the outset (and that was pretty damn good). It has also ensured it's longevity and popularity.
I could go on and on, the skills and knowledge of people - an unbelievable real and tangible source of information (that probably you would normally pay for). I hope to learn a great deal more about how a car functions, how they are set up, and take care of my own car and carry out repairs myself, and the noble forum allows me this luxury (and it’s a great car too).
Which leads me on to responding to some of the other comments (thank you swankbaton, captainjp and sundance002). I know there is a very good chance I will eat humble pie, but going beyond the current output seems unlikely for me because just taking care of what I have seems exciting enough. As I say I have so much to learn just about the intricacies of how a car functions (currently I wouldn’t be able to identify every item in the engine bay). To carry out some repairs etc myself would be a great achievement! I am going to add replacing the headlights onto my list though, that doesn’t scare me too much, and talk to Bespoke about the clutch.
Thanks all!
All of this effort, interest and hard work has enabled the Noble to be far more, far better than it was even at the outset (and that was pretty damn good). It has also ensured it's longevity and popularity.
I could go on and on, the skills and knowledge of people - an unbelievable real and tangible source of information (that probably you would normally pay for). I hope to learn a great deal more about how a car functions, how they are set up, and take care of my own car and carry out repairs myself, and the noble forum allows me this luxury (and it’s a great car too).
Which leads me on to responding to some of the other comments (thank you swankbaton, captainjp and sundance002). I know there is a very good chance I will eat humble pie, but going beyond the current output seems unlikely for me because just taking care of what I have seems exciting enough. As I say I have so much to learn just about the intricacies of how a car functions (currently I wouldn’t be able to identify every item in the engine bay). To carry out some repairs etc myself would be a great achievement! I am going to add replacing the headlights onto my list though, that doesn’t scare me too much, and talk to Bespoke about the clutch.
Thanks all!
andygtt said:
welcome to the forum
....if your happy with the power and just want to future proof it for mild mods later then getting oil cooling adapters put into the box now while its apart will be cheap and will mean you can fit coolers later if needed (a must over 500bhp imo)... upgrading the clutch would be a good idea as stock is only reliable to about your current power (can hold more but not recommended)... Id leave the cam timing, valve springs (done with cam timing), injectors etc till later as they will require an expensive remap.....
Apart from the timing that's what I said ....if your happy with the power and just want to future proof it for mild mods later then getting oil cooling adapters put into the box now while its apart will be cheap and will mean you can fit coolers later if needed (a must over 500bhp imo)... upgrading the clutch would be a good idea as stock is only reliable to about your current power (can hold more but not recommended)... Id leave the cam timing, valve springs (done with cam timing), injectors etc till later as they will require an expensive remap.....
. However Andy, why would u not do the valve springs? My understanding is that at about 1bar you can get valve float and all this engine would need for a bit more power later (no more than 500) is to up boost and they are not an expensive mod.
Also I agree with post on getting Turbos serviced.
Bonds
P.S. All my knowledge has just come from being on here for ages and I'm just spouting what other people have done
Thanks for bringing that to my attention Tuxman I will check that out. Not a member of Facebook so would not have known otherwise.
Bonds, can that be done? do the valve springs, increase the boost and you can have 500BHP? Forget everything I have said so far that is tempting! Can the springs be done when the engine is in place? and likewise are the turbo's accessible with the engine in? When you talk about 'this' engine - do you mean the one in my car or these engines generally? Should not be asking these questions I haven't even got the car yet, and I have been banging on about how I am more than happy with 415bhp! What about insurance cover, does that become untenable if you modify the car this much?
So much to learn and like swankbaton says this is but the first chapter!
Bonds, can that be done? do the valve springs, increase the boost and you can have 500BHP? Forget everything I have said so far that is tempting! Can the springs be done when the engine is in place? and likewise are the turbo's accessible with the engine in? When you talk about 'this' engine - do you mean the one in my car or these engines generally? Should not be asking these questions I haven't even got the car yet, and I have been banging on about how I am more than happy with 415bhp! What about insurance cover, does that become untenable if you modify the car this much?
So much to learn and like swankbaton says this is but the first chapter!
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