Soon to become Nobler?
Discussion
Hi, all.
I've just cancelled my order for the new boxster convertible due in early next year and am seriously thinking about getting an M12 GTO3 or a Lotus Esprit V8. But I have a few questions.
I've seen GTO3's going for around £32K to £36K. What's the chances of finding an "R" around the same price early next year? There does'nt seem to be a lot of "R"s for sale at the moment and the ones that are, are in the high £40K's
How easy and how much is it to upgrade a GTO3 to an R spec. Specifically the headlights (I love love em on the "R"!).
The Esprit has a really crap gearchange. How does the Noble compare? How does it compare overall to an esprit?
Thanks all.
I've just cancelled my order for the new boxster convertible due in early next year and am seriously thinking about getting an M12 GTO3 or a Lotus Esprit V8. But I have a few questions.
I've seen GTO3's going for around £32K to £36K. What's the chances of finding an "R" around the same price early next year? There does'nt seem to be a lot of "R"s for sale at the moment and the ones that are, are in the high £40K's
How easy and how much is it to upgrade a GTO3 to an R spec. Specifically the headlights (I love love em on the "R"!).
The Esprit has a really crap gearchange. How does the Noble compare? How does it compare overall to an esprit?
Thanks all.
Angelis said:
Hi, all.
I've just cancelled my order for the new boxster convertible due in early next year and am seriously thinking about getting an M12 GTO3 or a Lotus Esprit V8. But I have a few questions.
YIPPEEEE, A PORKER CONVERT!!!
I've seen GTO3's going for around £32K to £36K. What's the chances of finding an "R" around the same price early next year? There does'nt seem to be a lot of "R"s for sale at the moment and the ones that are, are in the high £40K's
EARLY 2005 YOU SHOULD SEE EARLY 3R'S FOR £40-45k
How easy and how much is it to upgrade a GTO3 to an R spec. Specifically the headlights (I love love em on the "R"!).
DON'T DO IT! TOO EXPENSIVE - YOU GOTTA BUT A COMPLETE FRONT CLAMSHELL, ETC, ETC., ETC.!
The Esprit has a really crap gearchange. How does the Noble compare? How does it compare overall to an esprit?
THE CURRENT 3R HAS A SIMILAR GEARCHANGE TO THE LOTUS(SORRY, BUT IT DOES!) HOWEVER, BY NEXT YEAR I EXPECT TO SEE THE GTC AND M400 MODS (INCLUDING THE RECENT SWEETER GEARCHANGE) ON THE 3R (SHOULD IT STILL BE IN THE RANGE) - HOWEVER, THIS WILL COST YOU FULL PRICE.
Thanks all.
SO, IN SHORT, GET YOURSELF INTO A USED 3 OR 3R NEXT YEAR AT YOUR PREFERRED PRICE! GOOD LUCK.
afaik you can't upgrade the headlights to the R design(the factory want to keep model distinction I believe). Even if you can get them to supply, I'd guess minimum 800 for the front clam, 500 for lights, 400 for spray+prep and some more for fitting etc.
You'd also need the 3R alloys for the look, which is another 1800+vat IIRC.
Then there are various interior mods (well leather everywhere) and sound proofing to add in.
I see where you are coming from as I agree that the 3R is prettier, but trying to change a 3 into one is a bit of a losing battle.
No idea what price Rs will be this time next year. Probably late 30s for the earliest unless Noble do something silly with new models.
I see the first sub 40k 3R has hit the classified. Looks like a good car, just maybe not a favoured colour combo?
Can the new M400/GTC gearchange mechanism make it into the 3R. I thought this would be impossible unless it adopts the new transmission tunnel design as well?
I guess all values will shuffle down when the M500 arrives next year. I'm sure those forged pistons and T28's can be pushed a bit further
Can the new M400/GTC gearchange mechanism make it into the 3R. I thought this would be impossible unless it adopts the new transmission tunnel design as well?
I guess all values will shuffle down when the M500 arrives next year. I'm sure those forged pistons and T28's can be pushed a bit further
stuh said:
I see the first sub 40k 3R has hit the classified. Looks like a good car, just maybe not a favoured colour combo?
Can the new M400/GTC gearchange mechanism make it into the 3R. I thought this would be impossible unless it adopts the new transmission tunnel design as well?
I guess all values will shuffle down when the M500 arrives next year. I'm sure those forged pistons and T28's can be pushed a bit further
The one in classifieds looks a nice car, but personally I'd want a 6 spd box, trackday sump & LSD. Hope they sell it soon though, poor buggers have had it on the market a while now.
Just buy the Noble - you won't regret it!
Seriously though - the gearchange on both cars is equally poor - but with both you do get used to them. I had had 4 V8's prior to my 3R - the last was a Sport 350 which in every was far better than any previous Esprits I had. The gearchange never caused me a problem - but as the bloke in the Grolsch advert says - you can't rush these things - quick changes at speed from 3rd to 4th, and 4th to 5th are a definate no!
As for the Noble - well on the first day I picked it up I was outside the dealers for nearly 5 minutes before I managed to get it to engage reverse gear! First was nearly as bad until it had a few thousand miles on the clock - and even now both can still catch you out. Although the gearstick still flaps around a bit - with practice fast smooth changes are easily made both up and down the box.
All that said though the torque in the V8's always impressed me - changing gears to overtake, go round round abouts etc was pretty optional - the car alway pulled cleanly from 1000 rpm in 5th! However nothing could have prepared me for the Noble! A-road overtaking is simply phenominal - don't worry about which gear you are in - as long as you have one of them selected that is all you need to worry about. Subjectively I would say 4th and 5th gear pick up in a Noble compare to 2nd and 3rd in the Sport350.
Which do I prefer of the two though? Well I miss the electric windows, and mirrors in the Esprit - the softer seats and the soft centre console and door trims - oh and the boot space! And althought I have never been able to prove it back to back - I think 110mph+ acceleration was better in the Esprit. But the Esprit is a bigger heavier car - and you have to work a lot harder at it to go Noble pace on the road. When an Esprit starts to go you have to be pretty quick to catch it - and they don't always give you much warning. The Noble does exactly what you want - when you want - it virtually encourages you to play with it. And if you ever have to take drastic measures at speed to avoid an oncoming car when you go over the crest of a hill - you'll be glad to have been in a Noble rather than an Esprit!
Seriously though - the gearchange on both cars is equally poor - but with both you do get used to them. I had had 4 V8's prior to my 3R - the last was a Sport 350 which in every was far better than any previous Esprits I had. The gearchange never caused me a problem - but as the bloke in the Grolsch advert says - you can't rush these things - quick changes at speed from 3rd to 4th, and 4th to 5th are a definate no!
As for the Noble - well on the first day I picked it up I was outside the dealers for nearly 5 minutes before I managed to get it to engage reverse gear! First was nearly as bad until it had a few thousand miles on the clock - and even now both can still catch you out. Although the gearstick still flaps around a bit - with practice fast smooth changes are easily made both up and down the box.
All that said though the torque in the V8's always impressed me - changing gears to overtake, go round round abouts etc was pretty optional - the car alway pulled cleanly from 1000 rpm in 5th! However nothing could have prepared me for the Noble! A-road overtaking is simply phenominal - don't worry about which gear you are in - as long as you have one of them selected that is all you need to worry about. Subjectively I would say 4th and 5th gear pick up in a Noble compare to 2nd and 3rd in the Sport350.
Which do I prefer of the two though? Well I miss the electric windows, and mirrors in the Esprit - the softer seats and the soft centre console and door trims - oh and the boot space! And althought I have never been able to prove it back to back - I think 110mph+ acceleration was better in the Esprit. But the Esprit is a bigger heavier car - and you have to work a lot harder at it to go Noble pace on the road. When an Esprit starts to go you have to be pretty quick to catch it - and they don't always give you much warning. The Noble does exactly what you want - when you want - it virtually encourages you to play with it. And if you ever have to take drastic measures at speed to avoid an oncoming car when you go over the crest of a hill - you'll be glad to have been in a Noble rather than an Esprit!
Angelis said:
Thanks.
Looks like it has to be the "R" then and guess I'll have to test drive both of them nearer the time.
Might be a long wait though, as I want either of them in mettalic red. No more silver hued cars for me.
That's a coincidence, Mole Valley have a metallic red GTO on thier forecourt NOW. What are you waiting for? Martin.
V6GTO said:
Thanks.
Looks like it has to be the "R" then and guess I'll have to test drive both of them nearer the time.
Might be a long wait though, as I want either of them in mettalic red. No more silver hued cars for me.
That's a coincidence, Mole Valley have a metallic red GTO on thier forecourt NOW. What are you waiting for? Martin.
They also have metallic red M400 demonstrator!
M.Flat Red. Come off it. MONZA Red. Please.
What the hell is flat red?
Probably the flies swatted on my windscreen.
Maybe Bristol City after Tuesday's result.
Perhaps the labour party after the next election.
Steady on there Chris. Too much red wine goes to your head and you have been warned before to keep off the chhhhhhhhhhianti.
Ted we need a pair of red wine glasses here for the wine drinking Nobility.
What the hell is flat red?
Probably the flies swatted on my windscreen.
Maybe Bristol City after Tuesday's result.
Perhaps the labour party after the next election.
Steady on there Chris. Too much red wine goes to your head and you have been warned before to keep off the chhhhhhhhhhianti.
Ted we need a pair of red wine glasses here for the wine drinking Nobility.
GT03 NOB said:
Whats all this gear change problem,my r is as sweet as a nut or is it that there are lots of people out there who just cant change gear,for reverse just blip it into fith first,
Barry, are you taking about a 5 or 6-speed box? You say nick it into 5th and then reverse - that sounds very cunbersome with the 6-gate pattern but I'll try it if I ever see my M12 again (its languishing somewhere in leicestershire!).
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