Missing Xenons

[geoffreytaylor]

Anyone with Xenon headlights out there? The brochure when I ordered my car listed these as standard on the 3R. The current brochure after the price decrease still lists them as standard. R101 (hope it does not go the same way as the original R101) has ordainary halogens. Micknall tells me that only a few of the original cars had bi-xenons, so why is this still in the brochure?

[amg merc]

geoffreytaylor said:

Anyone with Xenon headlights out there? The brochure when I ordered my car listed these as standard on the 3R. The current brochure after the price decrease still lists them as standard. R101 (hope it does not go the same way as the original R101) has ordainary halogens. Micknall tells me that only a few of the original cars had bi-xenons, so why is this still in the brochure?

I was under the impression that all 3Rs had bi-xenons -in fact Micknall told me that mine did - I've always wondered though - how can you tell?!

[aps]

Yes we were told the same by the factory for our 3r build 85. On previous cars you could always tell because of the blue tinge but I susepct ours has NOT got them either as no blue tinge. The lights are much better than the GTO though but I thought we were have bi=zenons as well.

Do we get a free upgrade to the specification we thought we ordered?

APS

[amg merc]

Just checked the specsheet, says bi-xenons so maybe not all xenon's are blue - pehaps the factory would like to comment?

[joust]

amg merc said:

Just checked the specsheet, says bi-xenons so maybe not all xenon's are blue - pehaps the factory would like to comment?

Note: I am not commenting on this case - I don't know the facts or the circumstances and so it would be unfair of me to do so.

However - I'm not sure what spec sheet you are reading but the web site one doesn't list them.

www.noblecars.com/new-noble-site/gto.asp

Without commenting on the specifics of anyone's case, I'd make the following general observations.

All the spec sheets I've seen have the standard "specification subject to change without notice" on them (as everyone in every industry does). The 3R one I have has on it "Noble Automotive Ltd reserves the right to change prices and specifications at any time.". It's clear therefore that you shouldn't base a purchasing decision on the brochure alone.

For that precise reason you should ensure whenever you order *anything* (cars or anything else) that you get all of the important things that you require listed on the specification that is on the order form. If you see "xyz" on a specification sheet and you wish to ensure you get it then you really have no choice but to get it listed on the order form.

You should refer back to your order sheet to see if they were specified. If they are then you would have a valid claim through the sales of goods act, if they aren't then there is no obligation to supply as you signed the form.

Generally all order forms (or any order forms from companies that have any sense) will make the specification on the form "final".

The two Noble order forms I have in my possession clearly state next to the signature box "I understand that the above specifications are final and I accept the [invoice/ex-factory/dealer] price based on the above".

Again, without making any representation in defense or critism of the factory in this case, people should read the forms they sign - but people rarely do....

J

[DanH]

If something was expected to be part of the final spec though and not an option would you expect there to be mention? Going by what your saying, the manufacturer could remove the seats on a whim

[amg merc]

DanH said:

If something was expected to be part of the final spec though and not an option would you expect there to be mention? Going by what your saying, the manufacturer could remove the seats on a whim

Absolutely agree! Are we expected to list "4 x metal wheel-valve dust caps" on the order form?!

I'm looking at a brochure "M12 GTO-3/M12 GTO-3R" and it states "Twin, faired-in bi-xenon headlights" on the inside back cover under "Standard Specification - interior equipment"

And, yes it does have the clause "Noble automotive reserves the right to alter specifications without notice" but, as a senior manager at Noble has told at least two customers that the bulbs are bi-xenon I'd expect that comment to supersede and/or augment the brochure statement!


>> Edited by amg merc on Saturday 26th June 16:48

[billywiz]

Mine was R10. Standard bulbs, so at it's 6,000 service i had xenon plus bulbs put in. No blue tinge but much brighter lights and also to replace the bulbs the factory had to re seal the back of the head light assembly. So you may have xenons and not know it as there is no bluing.

[joust]

DanH said:

If something was expected to be part of the final spec though and not an option would you expect there to be mention? Going by what your saying, the manufacturer could remove the seats on a whim

As I said - it was more a general comment, NOT a specific comment about this case .

A simple "specification as per attached specification sheet" would do on the order form if you wanted to make dead cert.

Not all Xenon lamps have the blueish tint, and trust me, if you have halogen you'll know it the first time you drive in the dark - the lights are crap and hence I had mine uprated almost immediatly!

J

[joust]

amg merc said:

And, yes it does have the clause "Noble automotive reserves the right to alter specifications without notice" but, as a senior manager at Noble has told at least two customers that the bulbs are bi-xenon I'd expect that comment to supersede and/or augment the brochure statement!

Sorry to be pedantic, but bi-xenon lamps don't have "bulbs" due to the way they work.....

Xenon bulbs are a very different thing to bi-xenon lamps - bulbs can be fitted to an OEM lens enclosure - xenon discharge lamps are a totally different ball game and cost £1000 to £4000 to purchase depending on specification, Xenon bulbs are in the £50+ range. Funnily enough though a well setup traditional lens with the correct bulb can be just as effective, if not more so, than Xenons. My new X5 (which has xenon/halogen bulbs) actually seems to be better at night than the old Xenon discharge lamps.

In summary - if the lights work and you are happy with them - do you care exactly what they are???

J

[amg merc]

joust said:

In summary - if the lights work and you are happy with them - do you care exactly what they are??? J

...nope, just curious to know! :-)

[Micknall]

No, xenons are no longer standard on the 3R. The first, mainly demo cars were fitted with them, and I included this in the brochure spec at the time. However, virtually all customers cars have had conventional Halogen lights fitted to their 3Rs, so the brochure info is most definitely wrong.
But throwing away thousands of expensive brochures on the strength of this was not an option, I'm afraid - that's why we, and most other manufacturers, put in the disclaimer.

Rob - can't remember telling you the car had the lights, but if I did, I'm sorry.

'Senior Manager' - me??? I don't think so...

[hunttheshunt]

Just a thought, but if you are worried about driving at night, just honk the horn, any foxes or deer will die laughing.

Parp Parp

[amg merc]

Micknall said:

Rob - can't remember telling you the car had the lights, but if I did, I'm sorry.

Thanks for clearing that one up Simon - my car does have 352 BHP doesn't it?!?!?! :-)

[amg merc]

hunttheshunt said:

Just a thought, but if you are worried about driving at night, just honk the horn, any foxes or deer will die laughing. Parp Parp

As M'12s' travel faster than light this isn't really an issue!!! :-)

[sidekick]

If anyone is interested I have a pair of Philips OEM Xenon conversion kits (including 7000K bulbs, ballasts and all wiring) for sale. I bought them to convert the halogen lights on my GTO3 to Xenon, however because the 3 has combined dip/main beam in a single bulb it wasn't possible to directly swap the halogen bulb for a Xenon replacement. However, I think the 3R has separate bulbs/lamp units for dip and main beam? (please correct if I'm wrong), so it would be easy to upgrade the dipped beam unit to Xenon.

Nb. As Joust says, not all Xenon lights five off a blue glow. The colour of the light depends on the light "temperature": 5200 Kelvin-White, 6000K Purple, 7000K Purple, and 8000K Platinum-White.

Please email me via my profile if you're interested.

[LaurenceFrost]

sidekick said:

the 3 has combined dip/main beam in a single bulb

These are called H4 bulbs I believe.

>> Edited by LaurenceFrost on Monday 28th June 13:51

[hunttheshunt]

I must have the standard Halogen bulbs in my car. They're not great but I can live with them.

Is there a reasonable upgrade that can be done to the standard lights without spending 1000's, that gives a noticeable improvement. I'm really not that bothered.

I remember one upgrade being touted by Philips I think for young Nova owners who wanted that Xenon look. Not sure they improved things on the visibility front though.

[stuh]

I use Philips Vision plus and they a BIG difference for me with night driving. Longer throw and i find the whiter light much easier on the eye.....

[LaurenceFrost]

hunttheshunt said:

Is there a reasonable upgrade that can be done to the standard lights without spending 1000's, that gives a noticeable improvement. I'm really not that bothered.

Check out these babies:
www.powerbulbs.com/products/bulbs.php?manufacturer=philips&type=H4