head gasket failure prompts winter rebuild
Discussion
Hey there you lot,
first of all, sorry for not dropping in sooner, been a busy end to summer. A great end to the race season but not so great for the Noble :-(...
As some of you know, when i was at the Silverstone trackday in September, the head gasket on my car failed. It had shown signs of a failure on the Sat before (put my foot down on the dual carriageway and it chucked oil out of the breather) but i wasn't sure until i spent some time diagnosing it on the trackday itself. Athough the problem only seemed to occur when on full boost i didn't want to risk it so had the car collected and delivered to AW Tracksport. I later collected the car with my trailer and it has since been in my garage on axle stands.
As it's the winter i have decided to take it off the road and sort out some of the other jobs while so much is stripped out. Also, with ALL the problems i've had with the car since the rebuild done by a garage i want to rebuild it myself to be sure i can enjoy a summer of motoring next year including Spa and the ring with you guys :-). Fortunately i can get advice from AW Tracksport and hopefully you lot.
I'll keep you all up to date with the rebuild on here, still in the strip down process now...
The engine bay currently:
The failed head gasket. failed on cylinder #05, same as others i believe. Has the upgraded ARP head bolts as well.
The other head. no gasket failure i can see. Don't know why the gasket materials are different colours, is this normal. I don't know where Area 52 sourced the gaskets from during the rebuild.
So, why would #05 fail. Is there something that makes it vulnerable compared with the others? If a few of us have had failures here maybe there is something a miss. just a thought.
so general plans are:
have cylinder heads inspected, leak tested, and skimmed where necessary
replace all gaskets of course
re-make all coolant pipes (lookin' prettier and routed better)
use a lot of heat insulation... everywhere
alloy header tank
alloy breather/catch tank
ceramic coat the exhaust (decided i don't like heat wrap)
ceramic coat piston crowns and heads (it's a maybe at the mo)
fit M400 gear linkage upgrade from Jetstream
fit a gearbox oil cooler (gearbox case was drilled when the gearbox was repaired after failure)
re-make/modify pedals (they are not the best layout and could do with tighter pivots etc)
think that's everything, any comments welcome.
cheers to all
James
first of all, sorry for not dropping in sooner, been a busy end to summer. A great end to the race season but not so great for the Noble :-(...
As some of you know, when i was at the Silverstone trackday in September, the head gasket on my car failed. It had shown signs of a failure on the Sat before (put my foot down on the dual carriageway and it chucked oil out of the breather) but i wasn't sure until i spent some time diagnosing it on the trackday itself. Athough the problem only seemed to occur when on full boost i didn't want to risk it so had the car collected and delivered to AW Tracksport. I later collected the car with my trailer and it has since been in my garage on axle stands.
As it's the winter i have decided to take it off the road and sort out some of the other jobs while so much is stripped out. Also, with ALL the problems i've had with the car since the rebuild done by a garage i want to rebuild it myself to be sure i can enjoy a summer of motoring next year including Spa and the ring with you guys :-). Fortunately i can get advice from AW Tracksport and hopefully you lot.
I'll keep you all up to date with the rebuild on here, still in the strip down process now...
The engine bay currently:
The failed head gasket. failed on cylinder #05, same as others i believe. Has the upgraded ARP head bolts as well.
The other head. no gasket failure i can see. Don't know why the gasket materials are different colours, is this normal. I don't know where Area 52 sourced the gaskets from during the rebuild.
So, why would #05 fail. Is there something that makes it vulnerable compared with the others? If a few of us have had failures here maybe there is something a miss. just a thought.
so general plans are:
have cylinder heads inspected, leak tested, and skimmed where necessary
replace all gaskets of course
re-make all coolant pipes (lookin' prettier and routed better)
use a lot of heat insulation... everywhere
alloy header tank
alloy breather/catch tank
ceramic coat the exhaust (decided i don't like heat wrap)
ceramic coat piston crowns and heads (it's a maybe at the mo)
fit M400 gear linkage upgrade from Jetstream
fit a gearbox oil cooler (gearbox case was drilled when the gearbox was repaired after failure)
re-make/modify pedals (they are not the best layout and could do with tighter pivots etc)
think that's everything, any comments welcome.
cheers to all
James
get your injectors flow tested to check no 5 is ok
did you get photos of the spark plugs
have you got a close up pic of the piston crown
is this the second time the head gasket has failed ? was it no 5 last time
was the head skimmed last time ?
did you get photos of the spark plugs
have you got a close up pic of the piston crown
is this the second time the head gasket has failed ? was it no 5 last time
was the head skimmed last time ?
Edited by Gadgeroonie on Friday 18th November 00:42
Hi James , good to see you getting your hands dirty !!!! Although after the amount you have paid a garage to do the work already it's something you should not have to do !!!!
No 5 cylinder is the hot one and we have seen failures on that cylinder only , headgaskets are not STD ford items so I would recommend going back to STD , Jetstream have a fix for head gasket issues !!!!
See my "so exited" thread for details on ceramic coating pistons ect , Camcoat also do a slipper coat for the skirt , to be honest I would upgrade the STD cast pistons to forged units if I was going to all the trouble of a rebuild , jetstream do a direct replacement set that will fit on the STD rods cost is £900+vat .
I too am upgrading to a Jetstream M400 linkage so we will have to compare notes
Keep us updated . Tux
edited to add : very odd having different coloured head gaskets , my std units are black ,so im guessing the blue one is a pattern unit , i woul;d also be concerned about the hole sizes for the oil ways , the blue one has a much smaller hole !!!!!
No 5 cylinder is the hot one and we have seen failures on that cylinder only , headgaskets are not STD ford items so I would recommend going back to STD , Jetstream have a fix for head gasket issues !!!!
See my "so exited" thread for details on ceramic coating pistons ect , Camcoat also do a slipper coat for the skirt , to be honest I would upgrade the STD cast pistons to forged units if I was going to all the trouble of a rebuild , jetstream do a direct replacement set that will fit on the STD rods cost is £900+vat .
I too am upgrading to a Jetstream M400 linkage so we will have to compare notes
Keep us updated . Tux
edited to add : very odd having different coloured head gaskets , my std units are black ,so im guessing the blue one is a pattern unit , i woul;d also be concerned about the hole sizes for the oil ways , the blue one has a much smaller hole !!!!!
Edited by TuxMan on Friday 18th November 08:52
TuxMan said:
to be honest I would upgrade the STD cast pistons to forged units if I was going to all the trouble of a rebuild , jetstream do a direct replacement set that will fit on the STD rods cost is £900+vat .
That's without rings - they are another £360+vat and another of the costs I missed when costing up my rebuild. Regards
Graham
the "wrong" head gaskets are actually Jag ones that whilst fit are different in the oil and waterways... if these were fitted then you could have other issues such as oil starvation to the head 
as Tux says no 5 seems to be the one that fails if there is an issue on the 3L.... will you be going to forged pistons?... Id recomend it given your spec.
as Tux says no 5 seems to be the one that fails if there is an issue on the 3L.... will you be going to forged pistons?... Id recomend it given your spec.
Gadgeroonie said:
get your injectors flow tested to check no 5 is ok
did you get photos of the spark plugs
have you got a close up pic of the piston crown
is this the second time the head gasket has failed ? was it no 5 last time
was the head skimmed last time ?
hey Gadge,did you get photos of the spark plugs
have you got a close up pic of the piston crown
is this the second time the head gasket has failed ? was it no 5 last time
was the head skimmed last time ?
Edited by Gadgeroonie on Friday 18th November 00:42
will get injectors tested. they were only a couple of months old as fitted by trevor when he mapped it.
haven't got photos of the spark plugs yet, have them bagged separately though. they all appeared to be the same when i removed them. the plug from #05 wasn't clean or anything like that.
can take a close up of the crown, what are you looking for?
first head gasket failure mate
cheers
James
TuxMan said:
Hi James , good to see you getting your hands dirty !!!! Although after the amount you have paid a garage to do the work already it's something you should not have to do !!!!
No 5 cylinder is the hot one and we have seen failures on that cylinder only , headgaskets are not STD ford items so I would recommend going back to STD , Jetstream have a fix for head gasket issues !!!!
See my "so exited" thread for details on ceramic coating pistons ect , Camcoat also do a slipper coat for the skirt , to be honest I would upgrade the STD cast pistons to forged units if I was going to all the trouble of a rebuild , jetstream do a direct replacement set that will fit on the STD rods cost is £900+vat .
I too am upgrading to a Jetstream M400 linkage so we will have to compare notes
Keep us updated . Tux
edited to add : very odd having different coloured head gaskets , my std units are black ,so im guessing the blue one is a pattern unit , i woul;d also be concerned about the hole sizes for the oil ways , the blue one has a much smaller hole !!!!!
Tux,No 5 cylinder is the hot one and we have seen failures on that cylinder only , headgaskets are not STD ford items so I would recommend going back to STD , Jetstream have a fix for head gasket issues !!!!
See my "so exited" thread for details on ceramic coating pistons ect , Camcoat also do a slipper coat for the skirt , to be honest I would upgrade the STD cast pistons to forged units if I was going to all the trouble of a rebuild , jetstream do a direct replacement set that will fit on the STD rods cost is £900+vat .
I too am upgrading to a Jetstream M400 linkage so we will have to compare notes
Keep us updated . Tux
edited to add : very odd having different coloured head gaskets , my std units are black ,so im guessing the blue one is a pattern unit , i woul;d also be concerned about the hole sizes for the oil ways , the blue one has a much smaller hole !!!!!
Edited by TuxMan on Friday 18th November 08:52
good to hear from you.
I'll have to get in touch with jetstream about there linkage and gaskets in one go.
Camcoat is the company AW Tracksport use. i plan to give my heads and exhaust to them and letting him deal with Camcoat. Will check your thread out.
Still not sure about going to forged pistons. what are the benefits. i assume they are lighter! if i ceramic coated the standard pistons would they be up to it? can't decide.
would love to compare notes on the linkage upgrade... if comparing notes means copying off you ;-). just kidding.
I don't know what the score is with these head gaskets. i did notice the different gallery orifice sizes, looks wrong to me!
p.s. Tux, my new phone deleted a load of numbers, please drop me a text so i have yours again.
cheers
James
steveobes said:
Hi mine chucked out loads of smoke and filled intercooler with oil,was drivable of boost,
when taken apart 3 pistons had parts of rings cracked,have you checked rings?
hi mate,when taken apart 3 pistons had parts of rings cracked,have you checked rings?
had a quick look when i took the pistons out and they looked ok, no signs of blow past either although i'll be having a proper inspection tomorrow. I plan to change the pistons rings anyway so i suppose it doesn't matter if i do find it.
cheers
James
hi James
i was looking for det damage to the top of the piston or head gasket
it might be a good idea to change the pistons for the m400 style whilst the engine is apart - you can then go over 500 hp in the future
the stock pistons may be good for 600 hp - it is only 100 hp per piston but do you want to be the one who finds out they are not !
what do the valves and seats look like on no 5 ?
why not get the heads flowed whilst it is apart?
i was looking for det damage to the top of the piston or head gasket
it might be a good idea to change the pistons for the m400 style whilst the engine is apart - you can then go over 500 hp in the future
the stock pistons may be good for 600 hp - it is only 100 hp per piston but do you want to be the one who finds out they are not !
what do the valves and seats look like on no 5 ?
why not get the heads flowed whilst it is apart?
Gadgeroonie said:
hi James
i was looking for det damage to the top of the piston or head gasket
it might be a good idea to change the pistons for the m400 style whilst the engine is apart - you can then go over 500 hp in the future
the stock pistons may be good for 600 hp - it is only 100 hp per piston but do you want to be the one who finds out they are not !
what do the valves and seats look like on no 5 ?
why not get the heads flowed whilst it is apart?
i'll take some high res photos and post them. it had 530bhp from when trevor mapped it :-).i was looking for det damage to the top of the piston or head gasket
it might be a good idea to change the pistons for the m400 style whilst the engine is apart - you can then go over 500 hp in the future
the stock pistons may be good for 600 hp - it is only 100 hp per piston but do you want to be the one who finds out they are not !
what do the valves and seats look like on no 5 ?
why not get the heads flowed whilst it is apart?
how much would it cost to get the heads flowed?
cheers
steveobes said:
Hi mine chucked out loads of smoke and filled intercooler with oil,was drivable of boost,
when taken apart 3 pistons had parts of rings cracked,have you checked rings?
Very similar to what mine did in the end. If you happen to be passing lees can you take some pics of mine please. :-)when taken apart 3 pistons had parts of rings cracked,have you checked rings?
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