i30N ride quality - confused, can anyone help?
Discussion
Just been to test drive a 19-plate Fastback N-Performance as a possible replacement for the wife's Mk7 Golf GTi.
...and I'm confused and disappointed, esp. as it took a bit of persuading to get her to look at it...
Anyway, the ride was always properly jiggly, even in Normal mode (or at least, we believe we'd got it in Normal (see below) - couldn't see a 'confirm' button anywhere, and the dash wasn't lit up for 'Sport' or 'N'). So much so that my wife said 'no' on the spot...and I'm struggling to disagree with her.
Granted I expected it to be more focused than the Golf (turns out it makes the Golf seem like a magic carpet), but I've got an FD2 Civic Type R, which is notorious for its ride (so i'm not averse to stiff cars), and I genuinely thought the Hyundai was worse (Civic a little stiffer but more settled, less jiggly/fidgety...although to be fair the i30N always felt composed, just very 'busy' underwheel and that all came through the seats). The Hyundai felt similar to the FK2 CTR I drove a couple of years ago.
- Is it the 19"s?
- Are they all like that?
- Have hot-hatches all become track refugees in the last few years and we're all expected to have chiropractors on-tap?
- Or is there some odd 'confirm' button, or extra step we should have taken to change the suspension mode?
From above - in the Fastback there were 3 suspension modes - Normal, Sport and Sport+, but the reviews I've seen talk about a 'Comfort' setting and '4 settings' - is Comfort a hatchback only setting that they did away with when they tweaked things for the Fastback, and is there any real difference between the softest mode in each car?
Given the glowing reviews it gets from certain parts of the motoring press, and given the grief Type R's always get for their ride, I didn't expect this...wondering if we've missed something...
Thanks,
Martin.
...and I'm confused and disappointed, esp. as it took a bit of persuading to get her to look at it...
Anyway, the ride was always properly jiggly, even in Normal mode (or at least, we believe we'd got it in Normal (see below) - couldn't see a 'confirm' button anywhere, and the dash wasn't lit up for 'Sport' or 'N'). So much so that my wife said 'no' on the spot...and I'm struggling to disagree with her.
Granted I expected it to be more focused than the Golf (turns out it makes the Golf seem like a magic carpet), but I've got an FD2 Civic Type R, which is notorious for its ride (so i'm not averse to stiff cars), and I genuinely thought the Hyundai was worse (Civic a little stiffer but more settled, less jiggly/fidgety...although to be fair the i30N always felt composed, just very 'busy' underwheel and that all came through the seats). The Hyundai felt similar to the FK2 CTR I drove a couple of years ago.
- Is it the 19"s?
- Are they all like that?
- Have hot-hatches all become track refugees in the last few years and we're all expected to have chiropractors on-tap?
- Or is there some odd 'confirm' button, or extra step we should have taken to change the suspension mode?
From above - in the Fastback there were 3 suspension modes - Normal, Sport and Sport+, but the reviews I've seen talk about a 'Comfort' setting and '4 settings' - is Comfort a hatchback only setting that they did away with when they tweaked things for the Fastback, and is there any real difference between the softest mode in each car?
Given the glowing reviews it gets from certain parts of the motoring press, and given the grief Type R's always get for their ride, I didn't expect this...wondering if we've missed something...
Thanks,
Martin.
I've got a 19 plate Performance Fastback and I don't think it feels too 'jiggly'. Not sure what I can compare it to but my wife has a 2012 Leon Cupra R and I'd say the ride is pretty equivalent.
It's never going to be a wafter with the wheel size but I've never felt particularly uncomfortable in it.
I tend to drive mine in 'Normal' mode which is the default setting every time you start the engine. There is an Eco mode, but I don't know if that makes the suspension much softer. I used it when I went from Torquay to Sheffield on the motorway and it was fine.
You could always go into the configuration utility in N mode and change all the suspension components for the most comfortable possible and see if that makes any difference?
It's never going to be a wafter with the wheel size but I've never felt particularly uncomfortable in it.
I tend to drive mine in 'Normal' mode which is the default setting every time you start the engine. There is an Eco mode, but I don't know if that makes the suspension much softer. I used it when I went from Torquay to Sheffield on the motorway and it was fine.
You could always go into the configuration utility in N mode and change all the suspension components for the most comfortable possible and see if that makes any difference?
Thanks for coming back to me.
Dealer were utterly disinterested in 'selling' us the car though - threw us the keys (which was nice), but explained nothing about how it all works, and knew nothing about the suspension changes (which suggests they're more used to selling shopping trolleys than performance cars).
I've driven a couple of Leon's*, and they've tended towards the Germanic 'stiff = sporty' paradigm too.
...which to me is utter nonsense. It's all about wheel control.
- My old DC2 Integra (derided by the 1997 motoring press as too stiff, BTW) rode better than my wife's Mk5 GTi on 18"s, and probably equivalent to her current Mk7 GTi on 18"s. The OE Enkei's were something like 5kg apiece, vs >10kgs without tyres for the Golf's 18"s. Spring rates were higher on the DC2, but sidewalls were bigger.
- My current FD2 (derided by everyone as too stiff for non-Japanese roads) rides not massively but noticeably better on the (lighter, smaller) 17" DC5 alloys I'm using as winter wheels. (Again, lighter wheels, taller sidewalls = better ride - not f
king rocket science...). Either way it's properly stiff...yet it doesn't jiggle.
...which (assuming the car we drove was in Normal, as seems likely) brings me to the thing that the marketing boys always insist on, much to the engineers disgust - bigger wheels, usually (for cost reasons) adding more unsprung weight which gives the suspension more to deal with on UK roads. Possibly combined with the weakness of adaptive dampers - always a compromise as passive dampers can be perfectly tuned to the springs.
[i]Edit: Just been surfing n-cars.net, and it seems some people do find it stiff and jiggly, and others have commented that 'Sport' is a better compromise with less fidget. Which sounds like a reasonable suggestion when you consider how adaptive dampers tend to be set-up...
So...sounds like they've set the car up properly stiff (not unreasonable given the target) and haven't dialled things back enough in 'Normal' for family use on UK roads (FFS...are all parents expected to buy boring econo-boxes or SUVs?!? Or is it the bloody Germans and their obsession with the 'ring?) ...or at least certainly not with the 19"s.
...trouble is, we've not got the time to try and hunt down an 18" equipped car. Be an interesting test though...a car on 18"s in Sport mode...[/i]
* Definitely the most focused of the VAG MQB quartet.
PS - sorry if this sounds ranty...I really liked the sound of the i30N and wanted it to work, but it sounds once again like a triumph of marketing and 'ring times over real-world use...at least when you've small kids who frequent the back-seats and semi-regular long journeys...and reading around it sounds like over 50% of current hot-hatches are the same...everything's on 19"s or 20"s and running stiffer-than-ever suspension...
BigMon said:
You could always go into the configuration utility in N mode and change all the suspension components for the most comfortable possible and see if that makes any difference?
Did that too on the test-drive, just to see how it worked. And it made no difference...which made me pretty sure we'd got it in Normal and were just experiencing it how it really was. Which is a real shame...the rest of the car was cracking! Dealer were utterly disinterested in 'selling' us the car though - threw us the keys (which was nice), but explained nothing about how it all works, and knew nothing about the suspension changes (which suggests they're more used to selling shopping trolleys than performance cars).
I've driven a couple of Leon's*, and they've tended towards the Germanic 'stiff = sporty' paradigm too.
...which to me is utter nonsense. It's all about wheel control.
- My old DC2 Integra (derided by the 1997 motoring press as too stiff, BTW) rode better than my wife's Mk5 GTi on 18"s, and probably equivalent to her current Mk7 GTi on 18"s. The OE Enkei's were something like 5kg apiece, vs >10kgs without tyres for the Golf's 18"s. Spring rates were higher on the DC2, but sidewalls were bigger.
- My current FD2 (derided by everyone as too stiff for non-Japanese roads) rides not massively but noticeably better on the (lighter, smaller) 17" DC5 alloys I'm using as winter wheels. (Again, lighter wheels, taller sidewalls = better ride - not f
king rocket science...). Either way it's properly stiff...yet it doesn't jiggle....which (assuming the car we drove was in Normal, as seems likely) brings me to the thing that the marketing boys always insist on, much to the engineers disgust - bigger wheels, usually (for cost reasons) adding more unsprung weight which gives the suspension more to deal with on UK roads. Possibly combined with the weakness of adaptive dampers - always a compromise as passive dampers can be perfectly tuned to the springs.
[i]Edit: Just been surfing n-cars.net, and it seems some people do find it stiff and jiggly, and others have commented that 'Sport' is a better compromise with less fidget. Which sounds like a reasonable suggestion when you consider how adaptive dampers tend to be set-up...
So...sounds like they've set the car up properly stiff (not unreasonable given the target) and haven't dialled things back enough in 'Normal' for family use on UK roads (FFS...are all parents expected to buy boring econo-boxes or SUVs?!? Or is it the bloody Germans and their obsession with the 'ring?) ...or at least certainly not with the 19"s.
...trouble is, we've not got the time to try and hunt down an 18" equipped car. Be an interesting test though...a car on 18"s in Sport mode...[/i]
* Definitely the most focused of the VAG MQB quartet.
PS - sorry if this sounds ranty...I really liked the sound of the i30N and wanted it to work, but it sounds once again like a triumph of marketing and 'ring times over real-world use...at least when you've small kids who frequent the back-seats and semi-regular long journeys...and reading around it sounds like over 50% of current hot-hatches are the same...everything's on 19"s or 20"s and running stiffer-than-ever suspension...
No need to apologise! It's horses for courses isn't it.
I can't compare it to the Golf, but if how that's set up is your preference then that's all good. Good luck with finding something similar.
You could try the 'normal' N (not the performance model) which comes on 18's to see if that makes any difference. My suspicion is it won't unfortunately!
I can't compare it to the Golf, but if how that's set up is your preference then that's all good. Good luck with finding something similar.
You could try the 'normal' N (not the performance model) which comes on 18's to see if that makes any difference. My suspicion is it won't unfortunately!
BigMon said:
No need to apologise! It's horses for courses isn't it.
I can't compare it to the Golf, but if how that's set up is your preference then that's all good. Good luck with finding something similar.
You could try the 'normal' N (not the performance model) which comes on 18's to see if that makes any difference. My suspicion is it won't unfortunately!
For my wife it certainly is...if it was me I'd have been tempted, off the back of n-cars.net, to try again in Sport mode, see if that settled the jiggling down (it did settle down at speed, to be fair, but around town it was borderline annoying)I can't compare it to the Golf, but if how that's set up is your preference then that's all good. Good luck with finding something similar.
You could try the 'normal' N (not the performance model) which comes on 18's to see if that makes any difference. My suspicion is it won't unfortunately!
Normal "N" - also occurred to me, but there's almost none around on the 2nd hand market.
Oh well...one to keep an eye on for when I need something new...once older I'd be happy swapping-on some 18"s...
Was your wife sat in the back? I've got an N (hatch) this weekend and just went out with everyone in and her in the back -she was jiggling up and down way more than I felt from the driver's seat. Overall I found the ride not too bad in eco (most comfortable I guess) and sport, but ridiculous in N mode
Since you've resurrected the thread I'd better update it.
We got a Mk7.5 GTi PP in the end. And, much as I hate to say it, it's arguably the perfect compromise between school-run schlep and B-road fun - at even remotely sensible speeds it never runs out of wheel travel or answers, and the diff makes a big difference to traction (OK, it's not Type-R or Focus RS aggressive, but again it's well-judged). Even the piped engine noise isn't too offensive.
Would I still take my Civic instead out for a blat down some fun roads? Yes.
Do I think the Golf is far more 'fit for purpose' as an everyday small family performance car? Yes.
Sorry. I liked the idea of the i30N, but the suspension* is dialled too far towards 'track' for UK roads, at least for a car with 4 doors and a decent boot.
* Like my Civic, which has the benefit of just being an occasional family hack.
We got a Mk7.5 GTi PP in the end. And, much as I hate to say it, it's arguably the perfect compromise between school-run schlep and B-road fun - at even remotely sensible speeds it never runs out of wheel travel or answers, and the diff makes a big difference to traction (OK, it's not Type-R or Focus RS aggressive, but again it's well-judged). Even the piped engine noise isn't too offensive.
Would I still take my Civic instead out for a blat down some fun roads? Yes.
Do I think the Golf is far more 'fit for purpose' as an everyday small family performance car? Yes.
Sorry. I liked the idea of the i30N, but the suspension* is dialled too far towards 'track' for UK roads, at least for a car with 4 doors and a decent boot.
* Like my Civic, which has the benefit of just being an occasional family hack.
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