What is a good car brand these days?
Discussion
I have been a very loyal customer of a LEXUriouS car brand over the last 20+ years. Had 5 in total with 2 still in my possession. They used to be great cars and one is nigh on 200,000 miles from new and not missed a beat. However, I have had a few issues with the latest car including creaking suspension from when the car was new. Despite raising it with two dealers, it took my persistence and patience to sort it out. After 7 years, it was finally fixed.
Now, the leather has started to fail in some unusual places despite light use , very low miles, and good care. The Customer Relations department say that it is 'normal' and 'within specification'. I beg to differ. Upshot is...I'm ready to ditch the brand as it seems they have given up on their 'Pursuit Of Perfection' and put their fingers in their ears. Next service is due and they want £660 for oil, filter, pollen filter, air filter, brake fluid and coolant. The rest is 'checking that the floor mats are secured' and things like that. Not rocket science and feels like a lot of padding. I can do the service myself with genuine parts for less than £200. So, shock horror, they are on the verge of losing a loyal customer despite praise from JD Powers over the years.
So, having been a loyal customer, I've not really been looking at other marques of late. Plenty of lovely cars available but I am wondering - has quality kept pace with price? I am old fashioned and tend to buy a car rather than lease and change every 3 years. May be that is wrong, but mileage is not so much as it was years ago - say 10,000 miles a year.
Where do we go from here? What brands do Pistonheaders absolutely swear by, rather than swear at? By that I mean - the whole ownership experience. To me that means:
1. Quality that runs through the car - not that it just looks pretty (that discounts anything Land Rover/Range Rover - unless I can be persuaded otherwise).
2. Reliability - few foibles
3. Longevity / durability
4. Depreciation
5. Good dealers
6. Cost and ease of servicing
Its a big question - is there a a sweet spot for ownership out there that is not EV, and not more than say £65K?
Now, the leather has started to fail in some unusual places despite light use , very low miles, and good care. The Customer Relations department say that it is 'normal' and 'within specification'. I beg to differ. Upshot is...I'm ready to ditch the brand as it seems they have given up on their 'Pursuit Of Perfection' and put their fingers in their ears. Next service is due and they want £660 for oil, filter, pollen filter, air filter, brake fluid and coolant. The rest is 'checking that the floor mats are secured' and things like that. Not rocket science and feels like a lot of padding. I can do the service myself with genuine parts for less than £200. So, shock horror, they are on the verge of losing a loyal customer despite praise from JD Powers over the years.
So, having been a loyal customer, I've not really been looking at other marques of late. Plenty of lovely cars available but I am wondering - has quality kept pace with price? I am old fashioned and tend to buy a car rather than lease and change every 3 years. May be that is wrong, but mileage is not so much as it was years ago - say 10,000 miles a year.
Where do we go from here? What brands do Pistonheaders absolutely swear by, rather than swear at? By that I mean - the whole ownership experience. To me that means:
1. Quality that runs through the car - not that it just looks pretty (that discounts anything Land Rover/Range Rover - unless I can be persuaded otherwise).
2. Reliability - few foibles
3. Longevity / durability
4. Depreciation
5. Good dealers
6. Cost and ease of servicing
Its a big question - is there a a sweet spot for ownership out there that is not EV, and not more than say £65K?
Yes - quite correct. Mine have all been Japanese built cars. Good quality on the whole but still not immune to problems. Despite the reputation, I would say the company is not quite as a good as it makes out! Not enamored with the latest crop of cars now they have dropped 3.5L V6 and moved to 2.0L, but clearly loads of manufacturers are doing that.
I was in a Toyota dealer at the weekend and they had the new model CH-R in. A mid sized family hybrid hatchback. It was top spec - and £42,000. I was left thinking, does anyone buy a new car any more as that would hurt. Even a lease could be spendy.
Are cars from a few years ago (now used obviously) better than their modern successors with respect to quality of parts/materials, and an even better buy after the depreciation hit?
I was in a Toyota dealer at the weekend and they had the new model CH-R in. A mid sized family hybrid hatchback. It was top spec - and £42,000. I was left thinking, does anyone buy a new car any more as that would hurt. Even a lease could be spendy.
Are cars from a few years ago (now used obviously) better than their modern successors with respect to quality of parts/materials, and an even better buy after the depreciation hit?
k off.Paracetamol said:
If I am reading correctly you are saying that failed leather on a 7 year car is an unacceptable quality lapse..is that correct? What do you mean by failed leather and how many miles has the car covered ?
I can only describe the leather as having melted in a few places but in an obvious way. Not worn or faded. Never seen this on any car before. I think car was parked in the sun, leather softened, we've got in it and the surface has sloughed off. Or dealership has damaged it when valeting. We dont know and it is unusual. Fundamentaly, it's failed or damaged rather than worn. Lexus say they have not seen that before, yet it is OK. Dealership took 14 weeks to report it to Lexus HQ after they took photos. Whatever they way you look at it, poor service and dismissive response.Edited by Paracetamol on Friday 21st June 05:19
On the subject of warranty...as I said, it took 7 years to sort out suspension creak..going through two dealers. First they said there is no problem at all. Then they could detect a problem and greased the bushes which worked, but problem returned. In the end, I researched Tevhnical Service Bulletins from Toyota and gave that to the dealer. That was done and fixed. If I had not pushed it would still be creaking away.
The service charges are inflated in order to maintain the 10 year warranty, but you have to fight to get anything done. I'm thinking of trousering the difference and do the work myself or at an indy.
I'm therefore interested to explore everyone's experiences of other brands - for better, for worse.
Thanks all.
Shame that yet another thread of mine has been moved. The subject is more general than simply car buying.
Re the leather failure on my car - I want to explain. It sounds curmudgeonly of me perhaps to raise a complaint about leather on a 65,000 mile car, but my other - 15 year old car has done 178,000 and seats are pretty much perfect still. The failure on the newer car is not simple wear and tear - it seems to have just 'let go'. It is clearly not right, but Lexus don't want to know. They are not even interested in investigating it a bit further to understand what has gone wrong, with a view to feeding it back up chain in the company. It looks a mess.
I balk at a £660 service. Reason is - I checked exactly what they do on a B service compared to A service. The only discernible difference is change of brake fluid and coolant, yet it is hundreds of pounds more. At 7 years, I don't want a tick on a sheet to say 'Does horn work - Yes', 'Does alarm work - Yes', 'Wipers work - Yes'. I can tell they do - I have been driving it 12 months since the last service and would have noticed by now. I don't need to pay them to tell me what I already know at £140/hour. Paying that would keep the warranty, but the time it has taken me to chase getting warranty work done is such that it would have been more economical to keep £400 and then pay the additional for a fix. There is little willingness it seems for the manufacturer to honour the warranty when needed.
It does seem a case that cars have increased massively in price, massivley in technical complexity - but that life blood of 'quality' is not commensurate in the product, or often the dealers.
Shame that yet another thread of mine has been moved. The subject is more general than simply car buying.
Re the leather failure on my car - I want to explain. It sounds curmudgeonly of me perhaps to raise a complaint about leather on a 65,000 mile car, but my other - 15 year old car has done 178,000 and seats are pretty much perfect still. The failure on the newer car is not simple wear and tear - it seems to have just 'let go'. It is clearly not right, but Lexus don't want to know. They are not even interested in investigating it a bit further to understand what has gone wrong, with a view to feeding it back up chain in the company. It looks a mess.
I balk at a £660 service. Reason is - I checked exactly what they do on a B service compared to A service. The only discernible difference is change of brake fluid and coolant, yet it is hundreds of pounds more. At 7 years, I don't want a tick on a sheet to say 'Does horn work - Yes', 'Does alarm work - Yes', 'Wipers work - Yes'. I can tell they do - I have been driving it 12 months since the last service and would have noticed by now. I don't need to pay them to tell me what I already know at £140/hour. Paying that would keep the warranty, but the time it has taken me to chase getting warranty work done is such that it would have been more economical to keep £400 and then pay the additional for a fix. There is little willingness it seems for the manufacturer to honour the warranty when needed.
It does seem a case that cars have increased massively in price, massivley in technical complexity - but that life blood of 'quality' is not commensurate in the product, or often the dealers.
OP here.
Lexus fitted the CANBUS protection to my RX free of charge. Availability was not publicised. It was due to PHs and the Lexus forum that I found out about it so asked the dealer and they claimed to know nothing about it. I asked again a few weeks later and they then said yes, we will book you in. Still.....I now use a steering lock on it routinely.
I feel as a customer that often I know more than the dealers do. Perseverance sometimes pays off.
The ES looks like a bargain and CVT is no issue. However, you just put me off further more re the theft risk!
Owning a car is freedom at the very least but I'm starting to perhaps grow tired of motoring, congested roads, declining driving standards, high car costs, poor dealers, and cars that are full of screens.
Lexus fitted the CANBUS protection to my RX free of charge. Availability was not publicised. It was due to PHs and the Lexus forum that I found out about it so asked the dealer and they claimed to know nothing about it. I asked again a few weeks later and they then said yes, we will book you in. Still.....I now use a steering lock on it routinely.
I feel as a customer that often I know more than the dealers do. Perseverance sometimes pays off.
The ES looks like a bargain and CVT is no issue. However, you just put me off further more re the theft risk!
Owning a car is freedom at the very least but I'm starting to perhaps grow tired of motoring, congested roads, declining driving standards, high car costs, poor dealers, and cars that are full of screens.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff