Don't make me agree with my wife: Range Rover or Touareg

[TorqueDirty]

Soooooo,

We are after a nice 4x4 with decent road manners yet some genuine ability in the snow and off road.

Based out in the country in central Scotland down a rather dilapidated 1/2 mile dirt track. Pretend / miniature 4x4s are not of any interest.

Current fleet includes an old Disco 2 which keeps on going (just) but it ain't a very nice place to be on bumpy B roads that's for sure. Canine and human passengers look very grey after even a brief jaunt down some of the local and heavily patched country lanes.

Really not in to bling 4x4s so the X5 / Q7 type things are not on the list.

Short list is basically down to a TDV8 Range Rover (not the Sport) and a Mk2 Touareg 3.0 TDI. I do also like the idea of a Land Cruiser but they are very expensive for what I understand is a rather unrefined drive. They keep on going mind and that is a significant consideration.

So here is the quandary; for 25k I see I can get c 70k miles 2008 Rangie or a 30k miles 2011 Touareg.

Wife is convinced that any LR product will simply self destruct before her very eyes and is also a bit sniffy about getting a higher mileage car. Secretly I half agree but I do rather fancy wafting about in a huge RR for a few years - assuming that it will actually waft rather than repeatedly shudder to a mechanically or electrically induced halt.

Touareg looks to be an extremely good car and will certainly do way more than we ever need it to. In fact if I had not thought about the Range Rover I would be on the phone to the nearest Toe-rag dealer begging for a non-emasculating trade in price on one of our other cars. However what is known can not be un-known and the Range Rover is dressed in its devil's outfit and whispering to me from my left shoulder. On the other shoulder is the angelic Touareg imploring me not to be tempted by the dark side and to embrace fuel economy, reliability and restraint!

So come on folks - give me some robust, opinionated and passionate advice. Are you going to talk me away from Lucifer (RR) and all his electronic gremlins? I think you should, but I'm slightly excited that you won't.

TD

[TorqueDirty]

Impasse said:

The internet and its wife know about Land Rovers because their mate down the pub used talk about a bloke who once had one. However, it will be more than worthwhile doing your research on the Touareg's foibles. They aren't indestructible - far from it.

Yup, I'm sure you are right. I guess my thinking is that for the money I'd be able to get a VW Approved Used example with a solid warranty, where as for an 08 RR I think I'd struggle.

Fair point though.

TD

[TorqueDirty]

Matt UK said:

My random two penneth... I used to work with a guy who ran a Touareg, seem to remember it was called an Altitude.

I've never know a car to cause so much bother - either it was a crap example or the dealer he was using was crap, but it seemed to suffer badly with electrical issues that were never quite sorted out. Not sure about the mechanicals though. He also never got much more than low 20's mpg out of it.

Hmmm, interesting.

Anyone know if the Mk2 is better? They came in late on in 2010 I think and the reviews suggest it was a big step forward, certainly in terms of efficiency.

[TorqueDirty]

Spare tyre said:

old landcruiser

I'd have one immediately as a like for like replacement for the Disco - one of the old Colorado models - but the wife says NO! Too old, too many miles, plus a load of other finely tuned reasons that really just amount to "I want something fancier!"

Think I'll keep the Disco what ever we do so that at least I can take the dog for a walk without having to change out of my wellies on the way back.

[TorqueDirty]

cheddar said:

I love the Touareg, easily the least brash of the big SUV's but thoughtful and capable too.

Nothing wrong with the V6 but can you stretch to £30k for the V8 TDI? It gives that effortless, imperious RR feel without the image or issues.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

Careful now, you will get me in to a lot of trouble.

Also that's only a few grand shy of early but immaculate Aston Martin V8 Vantage money - which is the car that I have really been obsessing about for the last few weeks! Of course it won't help in the snow but there is always the good old Disco 2 on the driveway

[TorqueDirty]

Bill said:

Fix the suspension on the D2.

Already have - twice. This one has ACE and is on springs - which whilst theoretically more reliable then the air system is a lot harsher I think.

ACE (active cornering enhancement?)is weird - or st, depending on how diplomatic you are feeling. It does certainly stop roll around corners but on a bumpy road it cant respond fast enough and simply makes the car shudder violently. Mind you, I can't imagine the ACE control system is very sophisticated; I bet it just pushes the car in the opposite direction of the lean at any given moment and thus sets up an oscillation when the bumps are coming thick and fast from either side.

[TorqueDirty]

Ruskie said:

Toureug 5.0 TDI has to be the one. Will be a giggle in a straight line as well.

Ha ha yes, all the way from one petrol station to the next! But I agree, there is a certain temptation there although I'd sooner go for the Mk2 version and lose some frankly unnecessary grunt.

Who knows, after all this talk I'll probably end up with a sodding Suzuki Jimny so grunt won't be an oft used word - except following the words "lack of...."

[TorqueDirty]

Baryonyx said:

Forgot those naff crapwagons, OP. Get a Landcruiser if you really want a tall, ungainly SUV.

I hear you!

Problem is that for this money it needs to be refined enough to be the main car of the household and thus needs some decent waft capabilities.

One other objective is to go from 4 down to 3 or 2 cars so this one needs to multitask pretty well.

[TorqueDirty]

Djtemeka said:

the missus is always right! esp when she knows at least a little about cars! that leaves a "get out of jail " card for the 911

Ah haaaa!

You would think so wouldn't you but I made the huge mistake of explaining about the bore scoring / IMS issues with the 997. As a result that's now off limits. Happily the Aston Martin V8 vantage is acceptable!!! Although sadly it sure as hell ain't in combination with a 25k 4x4!


TD

[TorqueDirty]

aarondbs said:

In typical PH fashion I'm going to suggest a VWAmarok....only becausecause I've got one. It's been super reliable in 55,000 miles in 18months. It's plenty quick enough particularly on the H/T tyres on it now. 32/33 mpg and carried family all over Europe.

Back on piste I'd have the Range Rover. A TDV8 F2F is what I would have if I couldn't have a V8 supercharged.

My sister in law has a Tourag and its just not the real deal in my eyes at least.

Good call. The wife likes em and so do I but the dog is complaining strongly regarding his proposed seating arrangements.

[TorqueDirty]

Twin2 said:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...

These are great from my experience.

Completely effortless to drive and fantastic off road - do the LR experience and you'll understand.

And of course it's the perfect middle ground between range rover and anything else...

Yup, on the nosey! But do they actually work all the time. No real experience of the D4 but the D3 reliability stories scare the hell out of me - my friendly LR independent warned me off them on the basis that they are ruinous to keep going.

Damn, they sure cover all the bases though don't they?

[TorqueDirty]

Justin Case said:

How much ground clearance do you need? If not too much then how about:
http://www.unityautomotive.co.uk/useddetail.aspx?u...

How much ground clearance do I need? Not much to be honest.

How much do I want? That's a different story!

I'll break one of the golden PH rules and say that for this money I want something that does way more then I'll ever need it to do. That said it will need to get through a foot of snow / water / mud without breaking a sweat.

[TorqueDirty]

OK Guys,

Man maths has been at work.

After idly perusing the classifieds I notice that for say an extra 7k I could buy one of the newer 4.4 TDV8 engined Range Rovers.

Reviews for this car are very good but is it really worth it? Guessing resale will be better, and clearly the performance will be better, but am I better saving some cash and getting a lower miles and higher spec 3.6 TDV8?

Also, since the wife is still utterly convinced that any RR will break down constantly, can I confidently say that the newer one will be fine? I mention this because if I win the argument for the RR over the Touareg, and it then breaks down, there will be some extremely tense silences in the house!

So the key question is whether the 4.4 is miles better then the 3.6 or just better to buy if the extra price differential is of no importance to you. For clarity the extra 7k is a big deal to us so the car would need to be dramatically better / more reliable / slower to depreciate / result in more frequent and better sex etc to be worth the extra money.

Thoughts?

[TorqueDirty]

PugwasHDJ80 said:

you eep going on about reliability- BUY A LANDCRUISER

there is a reason why the TDv8 landcruiser has such high residuals- they don't go wrong (well to be fair they aren't as reliable as an 80 series- they aren't as simple for a start, but they will kick a RaRo into touch).

Go and drive one before you discount them.

why aren't you looking at Q7s if Toerags are in the mix?

Fair comments.

Perhaps I should look at the Land-cruiser, but I really don't like the look of the newer ones and Jesus they are expensive. Even huge mileage example command gob smacking prices. Sure they may go on for galactic distances before issues occur but the used price combined with the bling looks just pushes them down my list - or are you talking about the Amazon ones? I love them but the price issue is even worse here. Last time I looked it was >17k for a 100k miles example that was 10 years old.

Q7 - footballers car. I'm a big Audi fan but these are just a bit too OTT for me. I know they are not too far off the Toerag but the VW is just more understated and that's what I would prefer. The RR is of course very fancy, but in a stylish way IMO.

[TorqueDirty]

telecat said:

Any reason the Shogun isn't on the list?

Purely and simply because they get appalling reviews. Anything that gets one star just fall off my list, even if it unfair, because not other sod is going to by it from me when the time comes. Of course the one star may be unjustified but it ain't going to be a 4 or 5 star car is it?

I actually like the shape, sort of like a Japanese (and superior) interpretation of the Disco 2. But the one thing that I don't like about the D2 is the ride, and the Shogun gets panned for this in every review I read. Plus I drove one once and it was completely anodyne - and the brakes failed on the test drive. Great pity because I would forgo quite a lot for a car that looked like the shogun but was great to drive.

It's complicated.

[TorqueDirty]

edo said:

If you are considering the VW then take a look at the Cayenne. Best residuals in the business (of any car in the UK in fact), perfectly capable off-road and the best on road handling by far.

The V8 S Diesel is a monster and even sounds brill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMzW4J5ByQA

Sounds bloody great but too rich for me.

Plus we already have a sports car so focussing more on waft than wheel-spin for this one!

[TorqueDirty]

Impasse said:

Stop cocking about and buy the Range Rover.

I like cocking about thank you very much!

But I probably will by a Range Rover too so I it's the best of both worlds really isn't it?

[TorqueDirty]

johnfm said:

Amusing that a Q7 is a 'footballer's car' but a RR isn't. HEH

Threads like this are amusing - you want a RR, whether it is the 'best' tool for the job or not. So just go buy one.

You don't sound amused to be honest.

However judging by your profile you are clearly a fellow cricket fan so I will shoulder arms.

Howzat?

PS the RRS is a footballers car, RR not IMHO

TD