Lexus LS400 or Jaguar XJ? Barge shootout!
Discussion
Afternoon,
As discussed on the smoker barge thread, I'm looking to buy a car in September to replace my now departed 106 Rallye. The tasking for this car comes down to fairly light usage, mainly for commuting over winter and one weekend every five weeks. I expect to do maybe 3000-4000 miles a year. My route consists of a few miles of B roads, then a belt down a bit of dual carriageway.
Why must it be a barge I buy? Well, I previously had an A8, which was fantastic and during my ownership of the 106 Rallye, whilst it was always fun, the comfort and refinement were missed. I have a motorbike for having fun on (which also handles most of the commuting duty). So I'm not after a performance car per se, nor am I interested in a fast crossover car like an Impreza or Lancer Evolution. The brief for the car is that it should be refined, luxurious, sexy and impress me every time I sit in it. Another D2 A8 would seem like the perfect fit, since I've already had one, but the one I sold was a beauty; very high spec, in great shape with great history. I'm not likely to find another one as good as that, and if were to buy another, I doubt I'd get as lucky with those gearboxes again! I find the D3 A8 utterly unappealing in many respects - it marks the advent of design and construction in Audi cars that I find extremely offputting, so the option of buying a newer A8 is out.
My heart had really been set on an X308 Jaguar. It's been years since I sat in one, but I was drawn back to their classically good looks. The interior looks delightful. Some say it is cramped, and I appreciate that it's smaller than the competition but that doesn't matter to me. It's usually just me in the car, sometimes with the wife, and that's it. Maybe with a bag or two of soft luggage in the boot for trips away. In terms of reliability, they have a bit of a iffy reputation but proper research suggests there is little to go wrong with them other than possible rattle from the cam chain due to slack tensioners, and rust. The old bugbears like nikasil liners seem to have faded into the distance. I'd ideally be looking for a 4.0 rather than a 3.2, though I gather they both produce the same sort of economy (I recall reading that the differential gearing on the 3.2 is lower to compensate for the reduced capacity?). They seem to be relatively easy to source, you still see plenty of them around. I discovered this morning that they were sold against the 5 Series/E Class market, despite being more of an A8/S Class competitor in terms of size and refinement. That explains their plentiful numbers - I always thought they just sold loads because they were a classically British car with fantastic looks and heritage! Does the Jaguar feel suitably high end up close?
Yesterday, my world was rocked by an LS400. I went along to see one at a nearby garage, just to have a nose around. As I say, I'm not planning on buying until September or so. Hell on earth, what a machine. I've not sat in a contemporary full sized executive car since selling my A8, and I had forgotten how fantastic that sort of machine is. The Lexus looked incredible. Thick, glossy paint, a stout and broad stance. The most impressive thing was getting in the cabin, which most people cite as the weak point of the LS400, saying it's bland but well screwed together. I loved it. I could see myself spending many a happy hour there. The main criticism of the LS400 seems to be that it's characterless. But I found it very charming. I could happily own one. The flawless Japanese engineering appeals to me, I love Japanese products.
So, which way should I go at this fork in the road? Will a close inspection of a Jaguar charm me back to the British bruiser, or has this passing flirtation with the LS400 turned my head for good? Which one would you go for? Advice and thoughts appreciated.
Or...
As discussed on the smoker barge thread, I'm looking to buy a car in September to replace my now departed 106 Rallye. The tasking for this car comes down to fairly light usage, mainly for commuting over winter and one weekend every five weeks. I expect to do maybe 3000-4000 miles a year. My route consists of a few miles of B roads, then a belt down a bit of dual carriageway.
Why must it be a barge I buy? Well, I previously had an A8, which was fantastic and during my ownership of the 106 Rallye, whilst it was always fun, the comfort and refinement were missed. I have a motorbike for having fun on (which also handles most of the commuting duty). So I'm not after a performance car per se, nor am I interested in a fast crossover car like an Impreza or Lancer Evolution. The brief for the car is that it should be refined, luxurious, sexy and impress me every time I sit in it. Another D2 A8 would seem like the perfect fit, since I've already had one, but the one I sold was a beauty; very high spec, in great shape with great history. I'm not likely to find another one as good as that, and if were to buy another, I doubt I'd get as lucky with those gearboxes again! I find the D3 A8 utterly unappealing in many respects - it marks the advent of design and construction in Audi cars that I find extremely offputting, so the option of buying a newer A8 is out.
My heart had really been set on an X308 Jaguar. It's been years since I sat in one, but I was drawn back to their classically good looks. The interior looks delightful. Some say it is cramped, and I appreciate that it's smaller than the competition but that doesn't matter to me. It's usually just me in the car, sometimes with the wife, and that's it. Maybe with a bag or two of soft luggage in the boot for trips away. In terms of reliability, they have a bit of a iffy reputation but proper research suggests there is little to go wrong with them other than possible rattle from the cam chain due to slack tensioners, and rust. The old bugbears like nikasil liners seem to have faded into the distance. I'd ideally be looking for a 4.0 rather than a 3.2, though I gather they both produce the same sort of economy (I recall reading that the differential gearing on the 3.2 is lower to compensate for the reduced capacity?). They seem to be relatively easy to source, you still see plenty of them around. I discovered this morning that they were sold against the 5 Series/E Class market, despite being more of an A8/S Class competitor in terms of size and refinement. That explains their plentiful numbers - I always thought they just sold loads because they were a classically British car with fantastic looks and heritage! Does the Jaguar feel suitably high end up close?
Yesterday, my world was rocked by an LS400. I went along to see one at a nearby garage, just to have a nose around. As I say, I'm not planning on buying until September or so. Hell on earth, what a machine. I've not sat in a contemporary full sized executive car since selling my A8, and I had forgotten how fantastic that sort of machine is. The Lexus looked incredible. Thick, glossy paint, a stout and broad stance. The most impressive thing was getting in the cabin, which most people cite as the weak point of the LS400, saying it's bland but well screwed together. I loved it. I could see myself spending many a happy hour there. The main criticism of the LS400 seems to be that it's characterless. But I found it very charming. I could happily own one. The flawless Japanese engineering appeals to me, I love Japanese products.
So, which way should I go at this fork in the road? Will a close inspection of a Jaguar charm me back to the British bruiser, or has this passing flirtation with the LS400 turned my head for good? Which one would you go for? Advice and thoughts appreciated.
Or...
Also in favour of the Lexus, I work near a Lexus main dealer, fantastic staff and service there. I've been in for work related matters a few time, and despite the fact they knew I wasn't there as a customer the staff were always happy to help, the sales manager even came down to chat about the new GS/LS range and which 7 series was his favourite! You just don't get that level of service elsewhere, other than maybe Mercedes.
OneTwo said:
I'd go with the XJ, although your budget should stretch to an X350 - which although looking cosmetically similar to th X308 you've suggested is much more advanced.
The X350 was initially on my 'watch' list, but it's out of budget at the moment. There has to be some flex in the finance to cope with me doing DAS come winter. So the budget for the car will be capped at around £2500 or so. Hence why, as appealing as the XJR is, it's off the list! I've no requirement to pay for more and have higher running costs for more performance. As long as it'll cruise at 90 (on the Autobahn) and receive Radio 4, it'll do me! What was the score with the Daimler Super V8 models? Are they merely a cosmetic package? They appear to be high spec X308's with some custom trim parts. I presume they were sold the Jaguar dealer chain?
Heaveho said:
Lucky man, one of the few! You played the lottery and won, Lexus owners all win the lottery.
Phrases like this add more crediblity to the LS400's case. I don't expect an XJ to be unreliable because it's a Jaguar, but my home mechanic skills extend to about working on a CG125 and that's it! This car is essentially a backup for days when the bike isn't feasible, so predictable performance is a must. I don't expect either car would be the 'leave you stranded' type. If there was one thing that was a pain in the arse with my A8, it was a the fritzy, cheap electronics. I was forever chasing bugs, or wondering what glitch would appear on startup!Synchromesh said:
Didn't I start this thread 6 months ago...?
£1k barges - LS400, XJ8 or something else?
By way of conclusion, I looked at an LS400, slept on it for a few days (not literally, that would be uncomfortable), rang up to make a sensible offer but it had been sold in the meantime.
Next month I was offered an S-type 4.0 from someone I knew, paid £900 for it, then it blew up about a month later when it was discovered there was almost no oil in it. My fault for not checking.
So I traded it in as scrap to a dealer, and paid £400 to 'upgrade' to a fully functional 1998 X308 XJ8, which recently took our party to LM and back without fuss.
Just this week passed its MOT but will have to be moved on soon as new personal circumstances mean my mileage will get hefty from September and I need something a bit less juicy - this is getting low 20s mpg on average which just won't be feasible.
Yes, your choices are much the same as mine. Though I'd have skipped the S-Type, even at £900. I've never reconciled those dire looks with their affordability, and the pre-facelift interior with that urinal console was a bit iffy. Even when I was doing a lot of miles in my car and having silly ideas about that 2.7 diesel engine they did!£1k barges - LS400, XJ8 or something else?
By way of conclusion, I looked at an LS400, slept on it for a few days (not literally, that would be uncomfortable), rang up to make a sensible offer but it had been sold in the meantime.
Next month I was offered an S-type 4.0 from someone I knew, paid £900 for it, then it blew up about a month later when it was discovered there was almost no oil in it. My fault for not checking.
So I traded it in as scrap to a dealer, and paid £400 to 'upgrade' to a fully functional 1998 X308 XJ8, which recently took our party to LM and back without fuss.
Just this week passed its MOT but will have to be moved on soon as new personal circumstances mean my mileage will get hefty from September and I need something a bit less juicy - this is getting low 20s mpg on average which just won't be feasible.
One thing I loved in the Lexus was that fold down lid over the CD changer, above the glovebox. It's a car full of neat little touches like that.
But I think it may be the seat that decides it! I'm always drawn back to the car seat as being the most important single component in the overall ownership experience. Nothing beats the feeling of flopping onto a luxurious leather pew at the end of a hard day's work, especially when it's f
king freezing outside. tobinen said:
I'd take a risk on a Jag personally. I've never owned either but my dad had an XJ40 in 1989 and the ride was superb. Plus speaking as a single chap I would imagine crumpet would prefer the Jag even if they knew nothing about cars. Not scientific I know but that's how I see it. Good luck in whatever you decide.
Both seem to fall flat with women. I've been showing girls at work the Jaguar since they were asking what car was going to replace 'my little blue one'. The Jaguar has met with a resounding note of disinterest. "It looks like an old man's car", "my grandad had one before he died" etc etc. Mixed group of 20-30 something girls of various backgrounds, none charmed by the Jaguar. I mentioned the Lexus, the one who knows her Alan Partridge started quoting the 'Lexus/Lexii/Japanese Mercedes' lines. Even when I had the A8, it was referred to as 'The Russian Diplomat's Car', 'Third World Dictator Car' and other semi-flattering things but I did not receive any offers to enjoy the heated rear seats. The highlight of it's pulling power was giving some colleagues a lift in it at a Christmas party, for one girl to remark 'this car is f
king mint' as I showed off the kickdown. My wife has no interest in cars so she doesn't get a say in this, though she'd be happier with me in a car than on a motorbike. I know best though, so I'll do as I please.
tobinen said:
This is most distressing information. My plan to replace the Merc for a Jag for this reason is now in tatters 
I had initially been looking at W140's as well. But they are just a bit too big. I've no qualms about driving and using a full sized exec every day, even if it does mean parking at the back when you go shopping. But is big, and there is titanic. Whereas the Jaguar will overhang a normal sized parking bay and be as wide as it, the W140 creeps over on every side!Yes, sadly, whatever you think is cool and stylish, women probably don't like it and will think it's a load of crap for old blokes. But then they always say I'm old before my time too, simply because I refuse to slum it with a load of s
te!Thinking back to the old battlecruiser, some photos for old time's sake...
V8Driver said:
Neither are a patch on your D2 A8, buy another A8.
See reasons above for why I won't buy another A8! It has to be the LS400 or the XJ, as both cars really speak to me. I propose to see about having a go in a Jaguar when I come to buy to see if I am won over. But the Lexus has got me.Even if it were down to badge appeal, I find both Lexus and Jaguar more appealing than a German badge. But it's not, it's simply about the car and the ownership proposition.
I don't find them just boring old barges either, they're mechanical marvels. I'll let biking slake my thirst for performance.
Charvet said:
How does that change the W140/W124 rip-off design of the exiterior?
I definitely think Lexus had sneaked a look at the W140 development blueprints as the design definitely has a touch of that S-Class about it. I know it's had some insults thrown at it for being 'dull' looking and slightly derivative but it's certainly a more handsome thing than the W124. Regarding the A8, it was a beautiful thing. I note above the comment that it lagged behind the Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes in contemporary tests. I wouldn't agree with that assessment though. I can't speak for the Jaguar of the time, though. The E38 I felt was competent but never really inspiring, with a pretty dire interior when judged against the competition. Cheapo plastics and leathers combined with a design that feels dated and stuffy but with none of the 'heritage style' of the Jaguar. The S-Class was utterly superb in many respects, but I thought the A8 was a worthy contender. Considering it was Audi's first real attempt at entering the full sized executive segment (the older V8 being their previous 'luxury' offering). They threw a boat load of design and technology at it, and it genuinely felt 'over-engineered', to reference a commonly used term. Of course, there were crap bits in it like the HVAC system but the space frame design and AWD systems were 'thinking outside the box' at the time. Then they decided to market the box as 'sealed for life' and frankly, sealed the fate of many cars they've spent so much time building!
I'd crossed the W140 off the list because of it's size, comparative rarity and the menacing danger of one of the electronic modules going pop (I gather there are around 40 in the car!). The BMW just doesn't compete but it doesn't look or feel as good as the competition. I've been there and done the A8. The Lexus and the Jaguar are now the prime contenders. As an aside, toys aren't especially important. A rear blind is nice, but mainly I just get in and drive with the radio on. No need for cruise control, sat nav etc etc.
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