MX5 ND2 RF to Up Gti
Discussion
Probably won't happen until the new year but I'm getting ready to move on from my MX5 RF. It's a great car and one that I think everyone should own at some point. But I use the car daily all year round and there are compromises to be made with a 2 seat sports car. Our main family car is getting on a bit but we don't want to replace it yet so I'd quite like a car which can do small family duties if necessary.
Looking mainly at small 5dr city cars. My journeys are local and mileage not high so I just don't need a big car and would rather save on running costs. I've looked at the Picanto GT line S and the i10 N line, both with a 1.0 turbo. They're okay but not really inspiring me. This morning I sat in a 5dr Up Gti at Available Car and really liked it. I've always loved the simplicity of them and it's plenty practical enough for what I need. Looks like fun too.
Has anyone owned or driven both an MX5 ND 2.0 and an Up Gti? Obviously the Up is slower but then the power delivery might actually make a difference in town driving and at lower speeds. Interested in owner experience at this stage really. Cheers.
Looking mainly at small 5dr city cars. My journeys are local and mileage not high so I just don't need a big car and would rather save on running costs. I've looked at the Picanto GT line S and the i10 N line, both with a 1.0 turbo. They're okay but not really inspiring me. This morning I sat in a 5dr Up Gti at Available Car and really liked it. I've always loved the simplicity of them and it's plenty practical enough for what I need. Looks like fun too.
Has anyone owned or driven both an MX5 ND 2.0 and an Up Gti? Obviously the Up is slower but then the power delivery might actually make a difference in town driving and at lower speeds. Interested in owner experience at this stage really. Cheers.
ChrisH72 said:
Has anyone owned or driven both an MX5 ND 2.0 and an Up Gti? Obviously the Up is slower but then the power delivery might actually make a difference in town driving and at lower speeds.
The Up is zippy at lower speeds.It feels faster than it is, but I guess that keeps one's licence safer.
They're beautifully simple, the driver aids can be switched off with two buttons on the centre dash (Stopstart & lane assist)
50+mpg easily achievable.
Simple to work on, easy enough for most indie garages to fix.
It's a VW Gti so will always have a following.
I've recently purchased the newest, lowest mileage one, best spec,I could find, it is three years old and paid only £100 less than it was new.
Missus has one also.
I'm sure it'll depreciate quite slowly.
When we were looking for ours we came across some that crunched going into reverse, so a weak point I reckon.
Other than that, fun little cars.
I don't have experience of the Up GTI, although I do own an ND2 RF 2.0, and that would feel like a massive downgrade to me, even if I do understand your reasons for wanting to swap. I'd say if you are just using it as a daily driver for round town, then you may not regret it, but you probably would the first time you go out for a hoon on a Sunday morning.
Nonetheless I will follow the thread with interest
Nonetheless I will follow the thread with interest
TameRacingDriver said:
I don't have experience of the Up GTI, although I do own an ND2 RF 2.0, and that would feel like a massive downgrade to me, even if I do understand your reasons for wanting to swap. I'd say if you are just using it as a daily driver for round town, then you may not regret it, but you probably would the first time you go out for a hoon on a Sunday morning.
Nonetheless I will follow the thread with interest
I've driven both.Nonetheless I will follow the thread with interest
Depends on your level of hoon lol
If your hoon is 100% Nigel Mansell then of course the MX5 wins all day long (keeping them revs up)
If like me you've fallen back on loony hooning, and just do a brisk one occasionally out of town, the Up is still a lot of fun on the country lanes, and doesn't feel slow.
Up can be remapped to 145bhp, plenty of people on the forums say it transforms them.
Thanks for that review Trevor, good to know.
TRD, when did you get your MX5?
Yes it is a downgrade. My RF is worth around 18k on WBAC and I'd probably sell it through the likes of Motorway. It's very low miles and full dealer history so would go easily I think. In terms of the Up I'd be looking at paying between 10-15k so would have cash back from the Mazda.
Thing is I never go for that Sunday drive sadly. I do like a spirited drive now and then but most of the roads round where I live aren't suited to it. It never feels like I'm getting the best from the MX5. In many ways my old Fiesta ST3 was the better car for me and I still miss it. But even that was a bit compromised with a hard ride and only 3 doors which meant we never chose to go out in it as a family (3 of us). It was plenty quick enough, faster than the MX5 really but the speed never bothered me much. I've ruled out newer hot hatches as I just don't need what they offer. They're also quite complex like the i20N with all the tech and drive modes which just aren't for me.
I'm sure there's much I will miss about the MX5. But my wife just won't drive it which is a pain. It means if I need to use our main car she is left without. And even my 10 year old son isn't all that fussed with it. He prefers trains!
TRD, when did you get your MX5?
Yes it is a downgrade. My RF is worth around 18k on WBAC and I'd probably sell it through the likes of Motorway. It's very low miles and full dealer history so would go easily I think. In terms of the Up I'd be looking at paying between 10-15k so would have cash back from the Mazda.
Thing is I never go for that Sunday drive sadly. I do like a spirited drive now and then but most of the roads round where I live aren't suited to it. It never feels like I'm getting the best from the MX5. In many ways my old Fiesta ST3 was the better car for me and I still miss it. But even that was a bit compromised with a hard ride and only 3 doors which meant we never chose to go out in it as a family (3 of us). It was plenty quick enough, faster than the MX5 really but the speed never bothered me much. I've ruled out newer hot hatches as I just don't need what they offer. They're also quite complex like the i20N with all the tech and drive modes which just aren't for me.
I'm sure there's much I will miss about the MX5. But my wife just won't drive it which is a pain. It means if I need to use our main car she is left without. And even my 10 year old son isn't all that fussed with it. He prefers trains!
ChrisH72 said:
Trevor, are you on the original tyre size or have you gone for 205/40/17?
The one I looked at today was on 205 PS5s which surprised me as I knew the original size was 195. A bit of research suggests many do make that change for a better ride and more/cheaper tyre choice.
Mines on the original 195'sThe one I looked at today was on 205 PS5s which surprised me as I knew the original size was 195. A bit of research suggests many do make that change for a better ride and more/cheaper tyre choice.
My partners 5dr is on Michelin 205's
People say it makes a big difference but I haven't really noticed.
The 205's give much better rim protection from potholes people say.
The wheels can bend, so check them carefully.
Beats audio is nice, but then you can't have a spare wheel.
They are spec sensitive for pricing, a full spec car sells very quickly. (beats, black roof, rear camera, climate panel)
For 15k you should get a real good one.
Spec does appear to vary.
I'm most likely to look for condition to be honest. I like all the colour options and don't care too much about items of equipment. Happy to fiddle with the heater, turn lights and wipers on myself and I'm sure at 3.6m long parking will be easy enough. One other the things I've always liked about the dash is having the phone holder rather than a screen. Keeps it simple and upgrading your phone ensures the latest tech!
I'm most likely to look for condition to be honest. I like all the colour options and don't care too much about items of equipment. Happy to fiddle with the heater, turn lights and wipers on myself and I'm sure at 3.6m long parking will be easy enough. One other the things I've always liked about the dash is having the phone holder rather than a screen. Keeps it simple and upgrading your phone ensures the latest tech!
Absolutely loved my GTi - best car I've owned. Did 70k miles over 7 years, started every time, every day and cost me nothing in maintenance and running costs. New disks and pads for £100 and a couple of tires was about it
can wholehartedly recommend them.Only sold mine last month to move to an EV, but it's for sale with the dealer who bought it off me - can confirm it's a good one! Massive history file, all with main dealers and the same specialist, always run on SUL, new tires and brakes this year.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21052464
ChrisH72 said:
Thanks for that review Trevor, good to know.
TRD, when did you get your MX5?
Yes it is a downgrade. My RF is worth around 18k on WBAC and I'd probably sell it through the likes of Motorway. It's very low miles and full dealer history so would go easily I think. In terms of the Up I'd be looking at paying between 10-15k so would have cash back from the Mazda.
Thing is I never go for that Sunday drive sadly. I do like a spirited drive now and then but most of the roads round where I live aren't suited to it. It never feels like I'm getting the best from the MX5. In many ways my old Fiesta ST3 was the better car for me and I still miss it. But even that was a bit compromised with a hard ride and only 3 doors which meant we never chose to go out in it as a family (3 of us). It was plenty quick enough, faster than the MX5 really but the speed never bothered me much. I've ruled out newer hot hatches as I just don't need what they offer. They're also quite complex like the i20N with all the tech and drive modes which just aren't for me.
I'm sure there's much I will miss about the MX5. But my wife just won't drive it which is a pain. It means if I need to use our main car she is left without. And even my 10 year old son isn't all that fussed with it. He prefers trains!
I got mine in March, but this is my 4th MX5 TRD, when did you get your MX5?
Yes it is a downgrade. My RF is worth around 18k on WBAC and I'd probably sell it through the likes of Motorway. It's very low miles and full dealer history so would go easily I think. In terms of the Up I'd be looking at paying between 10-15k so would have cash back from the Mazda.
Thing is I never go for that Sunday drive sadly. I do like a spirited drive now and then but most of the roads round where I live aren't suited to it. It never feels like I'm getting the best from the MX5. In many ways my old Fiesta ST3 was the better car for me and I still miss it. But even that was a bit compromised with a hard ride and only 3 doors which meant we never chose to go out in it as a family (3 of us). It was plenty quick enough, faster than the MX5 really but the speed never bothered me much. I've ruled out newer hot hatches as I just don't need what they offer. They're also quite complex like the i20N with all the tech and drive modes which just aren't for me.
I'm sure there's much I will miss about the MX5. But my wife just won't drive it which is a pain. It means if I need to use our main car she is left without. And even my 10 year old son isn't all that fussed with it. He prefers trains!
On a similar note, before the ND2, I had an NC1 BBR Super 200. Long story short, it needed a lot of money spending on it, engine rebuild, rust protection etc, very high miles, so I deemed it not worth it, so I ended up in a JCW F56 Mini.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the Mini, but not as much as the MX5, and so I ended up back in one.
However, I do tend to go out for pointless drives quite a bit, so maybe if not I'd have probably just hung on to the Mini, so I get where you're coming from, just be prepared to miss it
I've had mine about 2.5 years now. Glad I went for the RF as its not too bad in the winter months. I probably don't use the roof as much as I could. Even on hot days I tend to just have the AC on for comfort. To me the RF looks better with the roof closed and it's quite noisy with it down.
Not sure about yourse TRD but I find the gearbox quite stiff when the car is cold. Unfortunately my drive to work is only around 20 mins and by the time I get there the gearbox has just about warmed up. 1st and 2nd can be a bit hard work in stop start traffic on cold days. I've changed the gearbox oil but it didn't make much difference.
Other than that it has been a good car. I guess it's just coming up to car change time. No reason I can't go back one day as I think the MX5 will exist in some form for a while yet.
Not sure about yourse TRD but I find the gearbox quite stiff when the car is cold. Unfortunately my drive to work is only around 20 mins and by the time I get there the gearbox has just about warmed up. 1st and 2nd can be a bit hard work in stop start traffic on cold days. I've changed the gearbox oil but it didn't make much difference.
Other than that it has been a good car. I guess it's just coming up to car change time. No reason I can't go back one day as I think the MX5 will exist in some form for a while yet.
Matty_ said:
Absolutely loved my GTi - best car I've owned. Did 70k miles over 7 years, started every time, every day and cost me nothing in maintenance and running costs. New disks and pads for £100 and a couple of tires was about it can wholehartedly recommend them.
Only sold mine last month to move to an EV, but it's for sale with the dealer who bought it off me - can confirm it's a good one! Massive history file, all with main dealers and the same specialist, always run on SUL, new tires and brakes this year.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21052464
Nice car. can wholehartedly recommend them.Only sold mine last month to move to an EV, but it's for sale with the dealer who bought it off me - can confirm it's a good one! Massive history file, all with main dealers and the same specialist, always run on SUL, new tires and brakes this year.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21052464
I was thinking to try and get one a bit newer if possible. They went off sale briefly then came back in 2020 with a few tweaks for emissions and a price hike. Not sure if there's any real difference between the old/new ones?
Interesting that you went for an EV, how is that going?
I have thought about it. My usage would definitely fit with an EV but nothing is jumping out at me just yet. I do like the look of the upcoming Twingo. If they end up doing a GT version in a couple of years I'd be interested!
Had both, a ND RF and an Up GTi.
Your situation is similar to mine. The RF was ‘nice’ and it was good to have a convertible (I’ve also owned an NC, which I preferred), but for reasons I exchanged a Freelander 2 for an Up GTi, mine was 10.5k and I got 500 more for my trade in.
It is a 2018, ‘bought’ for £10.5k with 7000 miles and still 6 months warranty. I think for once I got the market right, I’ve owned it 5 years and it’s now on 36k miles and still WBAC offer more than 9k. Only costs have been non-dealer servicing and a new set of tyres.
It’s great fun, as others have said it feels quicker than it is. It’s very reminiscent (but better build quality) of the hot hatches I used to drive in the 80’s, even though it’s now just a ‘warm’ hatch, if that.
Your situation is similar to mine. The RF was ‘nice’ and it was good to have a convertible (I’ve also owned an NC, which I preferred), but for reasons I exchanged a Freelander 2 for an Up GTi, mine was 10.5k and I got 500 more for my trade in.
It is a 2018, ‘bought’ for £10.5k with 7000 miles and still 6 months warranty. I think for once I got the market right, I’ve owned it 5 years and it’s now on 36k miles and still WBAC offer more than 9k. Only costs have been non-dealer servicing and a new set of tyres.
It’s great fun, as others have said it feels quicker than it is. It’s very reminiscent (but better build quality) of the hot hatches I used to drive in the 80’s, even though it’s now just a ‘warm’ hatch, if that.
ChrisH72 said:
I've had mine about 2.5 years now. Glad I went for the RF as its not too bad in the winter months. I probably don't use the roof as much as I could. Even on hot days I tend to just have the AC on for comfort. To me the RF looks better with the roof closed and it's quite noisy with it down.
Not sure about yourse TRD but I find the gearbox quite stiff when the car is cold. Unfortunately my drive to work is only around 20 mins and by the time I get there the gearbox has just about warmed up. 1st and 2nd can be a bit hard work in stop start traffic on cold days. I've changed the gearbox oil but it didn't make much difference.
Other than that it has been a good car. I guess it's just coming up to car change time. No reason I can't go back one day as I think the MX5 will exist in some form for a while yet.
I agree I think the ND RF is a great looking car, especially now that mines on the eibachs.Not sure about yourse TRD but I find the gearbox quite stiff when the car is cold. Unfortunately my drive to work is only around 20 mins and by the time I get there the gearbox has just about warmed up. 1st and 2nd can be a bit hard work in stop start traffic on cold days. I've changed the gearbox oil but it didn't make much difference.
Other than that it has been a good car. I guess it's just coming up to car change time. No reason I can't go back one day as I think the MX5 will exist in some form for a while yet.
Yes the gearbox is a pain in the cold. My commute to work is under 10 minutes as well. Not hugely looking forward to wrestling with it. Don't remember my NC being that bad in that respect.
Just been for a drive in mine and it still amazes me how fast it feels without actually going all that fast at all
Good luck with the car hunt
ChrisH72 said:
Nice car.
I was thinking to try and get one a bit newer if possible. They went off sale briefly then came back in 2020 with a few tweaks for emissions and a price hike. Not sure if there's any real difference between the old/new ones?
Interesting that you went for an EV, how is that going?
I have thought about it. My usage would definitely fit with an EV but nothing is jumping out at me just yet. I do like the look of the upcoming Twingo. If they end up doing a GT version in a couple of years I'd be interested!
The newer ones removed some options (no more pan roof), added some nanny features (lane assist) and changed the badges. There's very little in it, so wouldn't swing it either way, just go for the one that's got the colour, spec and options you want.I was thinking to try and get one a bit newer if possible. They went off sale briefly then came back in 2020 with a few tweaks for emissions and a price hike. Not sure if there's any real difference between the old/new ones?
Interesting that you went for an EV, how is that going?
I have thought about it. My usage would definitely fit with an EV but nothing is jumping out at me just yet. I do like the look of the upcoming Twingo. If they end up doing a GT version in a couple of years I'd be interested!
Personally, if I was going again I'd get one in King's Red or Silicon grey (they came late in the model line) making sure to get climate control (tidies up the dash) and maybe Park for easier resale.
As for the EV, it's great. Perfect for my slow, traffic-lined commute to work. I do miss the GTi when the roads are quieter though
Difference in spec is a bit of a pet hate of mine. There are not too many Up Gtis for sale and they all seem to be specced differently. The climate control seems quite rare. I can probably live without it though but must admit it would be nice as I've had it in the last 4 cars.
Spec is what steered me towards the Kia/Hyundai. GT line S or N line just seem to have everything as standard which is nice. Reviews are very positive too. But the Up is just so much more interesting. Its a bit quicker, has a 6 speed box, looks better and the Gti badge guarantees the aforementioned following.
The only other possibility is the early Swift Sport booster jet. Its a bit bigger though and I think the VW is a cooler looking car inside and out.
Spec is what steered me towards the Kia/Hyundai. GT line S or N line just seem to have everything as standard which is nice. Reviews are very positive too. But the Up is just so much more interesting. Its a bit quicker, has a 6 speed box, looks better and the Gti badge guarantees the aforementioned following.
The only other possibility is the early Swift Sport booster jet. Its a bit bigger though and I think the VW is a cooler looking car inside and out.
I've had a 2021 5 door Up GTI from nearly new. A couple of times I have driven it to the Mazda dealer to try out a new MX-5 when my better half has had the fidgets. Both times I was really happy to get back into the Up afterwards. Yes yes the MX-5 is RWD and has a lovely gearbox action and nice lines, but for me that's it. The Up is a better everyday car, it:
- has better lowdown power as you'd expect from a turbo;
- is smoother to drive with a lighter clutch;
- sits better on the dual carriageway.
As well as all the stuff about practicality, being easy to park, etc etc
Tyres: the factory "Deficient Grips" are not actually terrible for grip or feel but they are very prone to bulging if they even see a pothole. Some people will deny this till they're blue in the face but mine was an ex-demo from the dealer with <1k miles on it and had one bulging tyre already and I got another bulge a week later from a pothole that wouldn't have troubled any other car I've owned. The factory wheels were a victory for the marketing department over the engineering department, they look great but they're heavy and they love to bite down on those skinny thin walled eco-tyres. I ran 185/50 on a set of non-GTI Up 16s for a bit and really liked how well the car rode but ultimately I missed the looks of the 17s and so now I'm enjoying the insane grip of 205 Eagle F1 tyres on something so light.
There are a few other things that you could argue mean it's a marketing gimmick rather than a serious driver's car, like the non-switchable traction control, the comfortable but not very huggy seats, the lack of reach adjustment for the steering, but they just don't bother me 5 years in.
Some cars around 2021 particularly had crappy rear dampers giving a harsh but also uncontrolled feeling ride. If you get that problem then Bilstein B4 seem to work well as replacements, I had those for a bit, then went to Eibach Pro Street Coilovers set sensibly high. Ride is now firm, acceptably so, but planted, with a lot of the slop and "tall car feel" taken out of the handling.
I remapped mine last year, but it didn't work out, too much of a surge feeling heading into peak torque, might try again with a different map some time, but tbh the factory power is just right for the car, it's fun to wring it out in 2nd and 3rd and still not be in danger of losing your licence.
The rear brakes are drums. Don't let anyone kid you it needs discs on the rear, the car is so light at the back with so little overhang that the rears barely exert any force during hard braking. The drums bind occasionally when parked up, a good dump of the clutch normally shifts it.
Now and then the tyre pressure warning light comes on but usually it's just being oversensitive, e.g. one side of the car has been warmed by the sun.
No other faults or niggles in 5 years.
Depreciation is minimal. Will it stay that way ? Don't know but I'm not planning to sell mine, possibly ever.
If you want a car that is still fun and cheeky and not too serious and very cheap to run and you don't actually feel the need to drift it through the roundabout on the way to Lidl, then it's a great bet.
I've had and will probably continue to have other faster and more expensive cars but I think the Up is the only one I've had lasting affection for in the last few years.
- has better lowdown power as you'd expect from a turbo;
- is smoother to drive with a lighter clutch;
- sits better on the dual carriageway.
As well as all the stuff about practicality, being easy to park, etc etc
Tyres: the factory "Deficient Grips" are not actually terrible for grip or feel but they are very prone to bulging if they even see a pothole. Some people will deny this till they're blue in the face but mine was an ex-demo from the dealer with <1k miles on it and had one bulging tyre already and I got another bulge a week later from a pothole that wouldn't have troubled any other car I've owned. The factory wheels were a victory for the marketing department over the engineering department, they look great but they're heavy and they love to bite down on those skinny thin walled eco-tyres. I ran 185/50 on a set of non-GTI Up 16s for a bit and really liked how well the car rode but ultimately I missed the looks of the 17s and so now I'm enjoying the insane grip of 205 Eagle F1 tyres on something so light.
There are a few other things that you could argue mean it's a marketing gimmick rather than a serious driver's car, like the non-switchable traction control, the comfortable but not very huggy seats, the lack of reach adjustment for the steering, but they just don't bother me 5 years in.
Some cars around 2021 particularly had crappy rear dampers giving a harsh but also uncontrolled feeling ride. If you get that problem then Bilstein B4 seem to work well as replacements, I had those for a bit, then went to Eibach Pro Street Coilovers set sensibly high. Ride is now firm, acceptably so, but planted, with a lot of the slop and "tall car feel" taken out of the handling.
I remapped mine last year, but it didn't work out, too much of a surge feeling heading into peak torque, might try again with a different map some time, but tbh the factory power is just right for the car, it's fun to wring it out in 2nd and 3rd and still not be in danger of losing your licence.
The rear brakes are drums. Don't let anyone kid you it needs discs on the rear, the car is so light at the back with so little overhang that the rears barely exert any force during hard braking. The drums bind occasionally when parked up, a good dump of the clutch normally shifts it.
Now and then the tyre pressure warning light comes on but usually it's just being oversensitive, e.g. one side of the car has been warmed by the sun.
No other faults or niggles in 5 years.
Depreciation is minimal. Will it stay that way ? Don't know but I'm not planning to sell mine, possibly ever.
If you want a car that is still fun and cheeky and not too serious and very cheap to run and you don't actually feel the need to drift it through the roundabout on the way to Lidl, then it's a great bet.
I've had and will probably continue to have other faster and more expensive cars but I think the Up is the only one I've had lasting affection for in the last few years.
ps, it's just coincidence that the main other PH thread on UP GTIs I've seen was started by "ChrisH79" right, is he any relation 
?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
?https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
occasionalranter said:
ps, it's just coincidence that the main other PH thread on UP GTIs I've seen was started by "ChrisH79" right, is he any relation ?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Great write up thanks. ?https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
And very interesting to read through that thread, seems like a lot of happy owners.
I'm not at all related to ChrisH79. But I guess he is 7 years younger than me!
This was the car I looked at on Friday..
https://www.availablecar.com/used-cars/volkswagen-...
I didn't go specifically to see it and was just browsing really but it definitely caught my eye. Low miles and in good order. 205/40/17 PS5 all round which do look good. Other than that no options that I could see. Possibly a bit overpriced but then the mileage is very low.
It's not the one for me at the moment but I will keep an eye on whatever comes up. They did say I could test drive it but I don't like wasting anyone's time when I'm not quite ready to buy.
https://www.availablecar.com/used-cars/volkswagen-...
I didn't go specifically to see it and was just browsing really but it definitely caught my eye. Low miles and in good order. 205/40/17 PS5 all round which do look good. Other than that no options that I could see. Possibly a bit overpriced but then the mileage is very low.
It's not the one for me at the moment but I will keep an eye on whatever comes up. They did say I could test drive it but I don't like wasting anyone's time when I'm not quite ready to buy.
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