Dealer margins in "remote" areas
Discussion
Wondering if this is a "Cornwall Thing", or does it happen in other areas?
All car dealers, new and used, seem to be asking top prices for their stock, while paying well below WBAC for trade-ins and straight purchases.
The same used cars get cheaper the further up country you look.
New cars rarely get offered at less than list, unless it's a direct manufacturer offer.
Main dealers offer rock-bottom prices for px, even worse if it's their brand.
Just as bad with private sellers. Cars being advertised at what would be dealer prices in the Midlands. They seem to sell too.
I've just sold my third Kia through an online auction platform (two via Cazoo, the latest through Carwow).
All three were offered as px or straight sale to local dealers, before being bought for substantially more by Kia dealers in the Midlands or East Anglia.
Latest one, an EV3, sold for £4.5k more than the local Kia and Cupra dealers offered, and £1.5k more than the local Honda dealer (after a lot of haggling).
Similar percentage on the previous two - Sportage and Picanto turbo.
Seems crazy that an up country dealer can pay more for stock, pay a trade plate driver for a 700 mile round trip, and then sell the car for less money than the local dealer would ask.
Seems like the margins in Cornwall are way higher.
All car dealers, new and used, seem to be asking top prices for their stock, while paying well below WBAC for trade-ins and straight purchases.
The same used cars get cheaper the further up country you look.
New cars rarely get offered at less than list, unless it's a direct manufacturer offer.
Main dealers offer rock-bottom prices for px, even worse if it's their brand.
Just as bad with private sellers. Cars being advertised at what would be dealer prices in the Midlands. They seem to sell too.
I've just sold my third Kia through an online auction platform (two via Cazoo, the latest through Carwow).
All three were offered as px or straight sale to local dealers, before being bought for substantially more by Kia dealers in the Midlands or East Anglia.
Latest one, an EV3, sold for £4.5k more than the local Kia and Cupra dealers offered, and £1.5k more than the local Honda dealer (after a lot of haggling).
Similar percentage on the previous two - Sportage and Picanto turbo.
Seems crazy that an up country dealer can pay more for stock, pay a trade plate driver for a 700 mile round trip, and then sell the car for less money than the local dealer would ask.
Seems like the margins in Cornwall are way higher.
I used to sell campervans.
People would drive over 5 hours to buy one, then 5hours back, or even come back another day to collect.
On asking them they said the dealers down there charge a fortune.
And nowadays I'm often down there buying cars, so rings true the local dealers offer peanuts.
People would drive over 5 hours to buy one, then 5hours back, or even come back another day to collect.
On asking them they said the dealers down there charge a fortune.
And nowadays I'm often down there buying cars, so rings true the local dealers offer peanuts.
I bought an e34 M5 from Scotland (about 30 miles from Inverness airport) for about 1/2 the price of a similar one (mileage, age, spec) in Essex.
The couple I bought it from were both company directors who were selling up and retiring properly. They had about a dozen cars in their garage and they said they were just going to keep whatever was left after advertising them all. Even came to pick me up from the airport in the car.
Including the return flight (just in case it was a dog) the car cost £4000 vs just under £8000 for the one in Chelmsford...and it was in much better condition than I'd expected for the price/age/mileage.
Was quite a long drive back though, and I think I spent more on petrol than the return flight cost - but did have some lovely roads for the first 3-4 hours (before I hit the M8, M74, M6)
The couple I bought it from were both company directors who were selling up and retiring properly. They had about a dozen cars in their garage and they said they were just going to keep whatever was left after advertising them all. Even came to pick me up from the airport in the car.
Including the return flight (just in case it was a dog) the car cost £4000 vs just under £8000 for the one in Chelmsford...and it was in much better condition than I'd expected for the price/age/mileage.
Was quite a long drive back though, and I think I spent more on petrol than the return flight cost - but did have some lovely roads for the first 3-4 hours (before I hit the M8, M74, M6)
Edited by mmm-five on Friday 2nd October 14:33
Looking at who actually owns the main dealer franchises in Cornwall, 5 dealer groups seem to have the market stitched up. If you want a specific brand, the only "competition" is different locations owned by the same group.
The only exception that I can think of is a single local Ford dealership (Flora) that's competing against Vospers.
The only exception that I can think of is a single local Ford dealership (Flora) that's competing against Vospers.
I had the opposite experience from a Skoda dealer down south, their prices were less than others and the cars in real great condition. When I got chatting over the phone about where I was located and would be travelling to see the car as the price and condition seemed better than anything local they said most their customers were from many miles away, they had to do that as unlike other franchises they don't get much passing trade, they are out of the way and so rely on competitive prices and good quality cars that all lead to people prepared to travel, returning customers and good reviews. So don't think they had a problem with turnover of cars, just keeping those prices competitive, also where they were located probably had lower business rates, employment costs etc.
Although they were tight on part ex, can't have it all I suppose.
Although they were tight on part ex, can't have it all I suppose.
Edited by Theoldguard on Friday 2nd October 16:20
Theoldguard said:
I had the opposite experience from a Skoda dealer down south, their prices were less than others and the cars in real great condition. When I got chatting over the phone about where I was located and would be travelling to see the car as the price and condition seemed better than anything local they said most their customers were from many miles away, they had to do that as unlike other franchises they don't get much passing trade, they are out of the way and so rely on competitive prices and good quality cars that all lead to people prepared to travel, returning customers and good reviews. So don't think they had a problem with turnover of cars, just keeping those prices competitive, also where they were located probably had lower business rates, employment costs etc.
Although they were tight on part ex, can't have it all I suppose.
Was that in Cornwall?Although they were tight on part ex, can't have it all I suppose.
Edited by Theoldguard on Friday 2nd October 16:20
Some costs are higher too, collecting cars from 'up country'.
Some local cars have hard lives in Devon and Cornwall, poor roads and all that.
Some cars like estates seem to be in high demand relative to supply.
Generally more choice and better value if you are prepared to travel.
It's very annoying when Ebay, AT etc search by distance and half the 'nearest' cars are in South Bloody Wales.
Some local cars have hard lives in Devon and Cornwall, poor roads and all that.
Some cars like estates seem to be in high demand relative to supply.
Generally more choice and better value if you are prepared to travel.
It's very annoying when Ebay, AT etc search by distance and half the 'nearest' cars are in South Bloody Wales.
OutInTheShed said:
Some costs are higher too, collecting cars from 'up country'.
Some local cars have hard lives in Devon and Cornwall, poor roads and all that.
Some cars like estates seem to be in high demand relative to supply.
Generally more choice and better value if you are prepared to travel.
It's very annoying when Ebay, AT etc search by distance and half the 'nearest' cars are in South Bloody Wales.
You'd think that Cornish dealers would be happy to buy 2 year old Cornish cars for up-country prices and save on the transport costs.Some local cars have hard lives in Devon and Cornwall, poor roads and all that.
Some cars like estates seem to be in high demand relative to supply.
Generally more choice and better value if you are prepared to travel.
It's very annoying when Ebay, AT etc search by distance and half the 'nearest' cars are in South Bloody Wales.
Maybe Cornish buyers just don't want nearly-new cars, so dealers don't need to buy them?
The "as the crow flies" distance thing is really annoying!
mmm-five said:
I bought an e34 M5 from Scotland (about 30 miles from Inverness airport) for about 1/2 the price of a similar one (mileage, age, spec) in Essex.
As someone in Aberdeenshire (about 50 miles east of where you were from the sounds of it) I almost always go south to buy cars.Not only are they typically much cheaper, they're also subject to much less severe weather and much less road salt. Bashing about over snow drifts, packed snow etc doesn't do a car much good, neither does being caked in salt for 8 months of the year.
Both maybe less of an issue for an M5 in fairness!
clockworks said:
You'd think that Cornish dealers would be happy to buy 2 year old Cornish cars for up-country prices and save on the transport costs.
Maybe Cornish buyers just don't want nearly-new cars, so dealers don't need to buy them?
The "as the crow flies" distance thing is really annoying!
I think a lot of people in D'n'C who buy new or 2 year old cars move between the West and the South East a fair bit, so will trade their cars in the wider market.Maybe Cornish buyers just don't want nearly-new cars, so dealers don't need to buy them?
The "as the crow flies" distance thing is really annoying!
Dealers know that punters will pay a premium to avoid traveling, at my end of the market, I don't want to drive 100 miles if I need the dealer to fix a problem, or to reject a car. Higher the market people want a package of getting the car serviced etc.
I've also found that a lot of the bargains 150 miles away turn out to be rubbish. They look good on the internet, not so up close.
The positive news is that scruffy cars are more socially acceptable around here.
clockworks said:
Looking at who actually owns the main dealer franchises in Cornwall, 5 dealer groups seem to have the market stitched up. If you want a specific brand, the only "competition" is different locations owned by the same group.
The only exception that I can think of is a single local Ford dealership (Flora) that's competing against Vospers.
I spent 15 years working for one of these 5, yes, at least the one I worked for effectively priced the cars at whatever they wanted, the response was always ‘go buy the cheaper one’ if someone could get it from Manchester. Just remember that they also control the warranty/courtesy car process if you have an issue with a new/nearly new car and will know the car isn’t from them.The only exception that I can think of is a single local Ford dealership (Flora) that's competing against Vospers.
Vertu will take over 2 of the 5 in the next few years I think, just a matter of time. Cornwall will be owned and run in the main by one massive conglomerate!
clockworks said:
Wondering if this is a "Cornwall Thing", or does it happen in other areas?
All car dealers, new and used, seem to be asking top prices for their stock, while paying well below WBAC for trade-ins and straight purchases.
The same used cars get cheaper the further up country you look.
New cars rarely get offered at less than list, unless it's a direct manufacturer offer.
Main dealers offer rock-bottom prices for px, even worse if it's their brand.
Just as bad with private sellers. Cars being advertised at what would be dealer prices in the Midlands. They seem to sell too.
I've just sold my third Kia through an online auction platform (two via Cazoo, the latest through Carwow).
All three were offered as px or straight sale to local dealers, before being bought for substantially more by Kia dealers in the Midlands or East Anglia.
Latest one, an EV3, sold for £4.5k more than the local Kia and Cupra dealers offered, and £1.5k more than the local Honda dealer (after a lot of haggling).
Similar percentage on the previous two - Sportage and Picanto turbo.
Seems crazy that an up country dealer can pay more for stock, pay a trade plate driver for a 700 mile round trip, and then sell the car for less money than the local dealer would ask.
Seems like the margins in Cornwall are way higher.
Always been the case as long as I remember (decades). I’ve bought 2 cars in the last year, one came from Cambridge, the other from Nottinghamshire. Local dealers were thousands off with limited stock. Quite tempting to sell here privately and source again from up country. All car dealers, new and used, seem to be asking top prices for their stock, while paying well below WBAC for trade-ins and straight purchases.
The same used cars get cheaper the further up country you look.
New cars rarely get offered at less than list, unless it's a direct manufacturer offer.
Main dealers offer rock-bottom prices for px, even worse if it's their brand.
Just as bad with private sellers. Cars being advertised at what would be dealer prices in the Midlands. They seem to sell too.
I've just sold my third Kia through an online auction platform (two via Cazoo, the latest through Carwow).
All three were offered as px or straight sale to local dealers, before being bought for substantially more by Kia dealers in the Midlands or East Anglia.
Latest one, an EV3, sold for £4.5k more than the local Kia and Cupra dealers offered, and £1.5k more than the local Honda dealer (after a lot of haggling).
Similar percentage on the previous two - Sportage and Picanto turbo.
Seems crazy that an up country dealer can pay more for stock, pay a trade plate driver for a 700 mile round trip, and then sell the car for less money than the local dealer would ask.
Seems like the margins in Cornwall are way higher.
The Rotrex Kid said:
I spent 15 years working for one of these 5, yes, at least the one I worked for effectively priced the cars at whatever they wanted, the response was always go buy the cheaper one if someone could get it from Manchester. Just remember that they also control the warranty/courtesy car process if you have an issue with a new/nearly new car and will know the car isn t from them.
Vertu will take over 2 of the 5 in the next few years I think, just a matter of time. Cornwall will be owned and run in the main by one massive conglomerate!
I forgot about Parklands Toyota, apparently owned by Flora Motors, so that's 6 dealer groups in the county.Vertu will take over 2 of the 5 in the next few years I think, just a matter of time. Cornwall will be owned and run in the main by one massive conglomerate!
Who do you think Vertu will take over? I'm guessing Flora (for the Toyota franchise) and Dales.
They have certainly been active in buying up local dealers in Truro - Land Rover, Volvo, and Honda.
Hawkins and Vospers have seemingly spent a lot of money expanding their facilities in recent years, and Dales are expanding their Cupra showroom to add Geely..
clockworks said:
The Rotrex Kid said:
I spent 15 years working for one of these 5, yes, at least the one I worked for effectively priced the cars at whatever they wanted, the response was always go buy the cheaper one if someone could get it from Manchester. Just remember that they also control the warranty/courtesy car process if you have an issue with a new/nearly new car and will know the car isn t from them.
Vertu will take over 2 of the 5 in the next few years I think, just a matter of time. Cornwall will be owned and run in the main by one massive conglomerate!
I forgot about Parklands Toyota, apparently owned by Flora Motors, so that's 6 dealer groups in the county.Vertu will take over 2 of the 5 in the next few years I think, just a matter of time. Cornwall will be owned and run in the main by one massive conglomerate!
Who do you think Vertu will take over? I'm guessing Flora (for the Toyota franchise) and Dales.
They have certainly been active in buying up local dealers in Truro - Land Rover, Volvo, and Honda.
Hawkins and Vospers have seemingly spent a lot of money expanding their facilities in recent years, and Dales are expanding their Cupra showroom to add Geely..
I think them, Dales and Hawkins will eventually be swallowed up. They're all still fully family owned but with aging owners and in most cases, not that many of the younger family involved (that I am aware of anyway) - there's the odd few, but I think that eventually, when the current directors/owners start hitting retirement age, the pull of cashing out and taking the money will be strong.
Just a hunch. YMMV and it's sad that so many independent dealers have gone (Carrs was family owned, Ward Vauxhall (bought by Dales), Rowes as mentioned) but I see it as inevitable in the modern age.
The Rotrex Kid said:
I'd forgtten about Parklands/Flora TBH so 3.
I think them, Dales and Hawkins will eventually be swallowed up. They're all still fully family owned but with aging owners and in most cases, not that many of the younger family involved (that I am aware of anyway) - there's the odd few, but I think that eventually, when the current directors/owners start hitting retirement age, the pull of cashing out and taking the money will be strong.
Just a hunch. YMMV and it's sad that so many independent dealers have gone (Carrs was family owned, Ward Vauxhall (bought by Dales), Rowes as mentioned) but I see it as inevitable in the modern age.
Mr. Carr seemed to have a good reputation amongst the locals. Odd that his dealerships were split up between Vertu and Yeomans when he sold.I think them, Dales and Hawkins will eventually be swallowed up. They're all still fully family owned but with aging owners and in most cases, not that many of the younger family involved (that I am aware of anyway) - there's the odd few, but I think that eventually, when the current directors/owners start hitting retirement age, the pull of cashing out and taking the money will be strong.
Just a hunch. YMMV and it's sad that so many independent dealers have gone (Carrs was family owned, Ward Vauxhall (bought by Dales), Rowes as mentioned) but I see it as inevitable in the modern age.
I was hoping that Hawkins would stay independent, as they have always treated us fairly (if not exactly cheaply). Apparently still making decent profits, despite spending a lot of money redeveloping the Blackwater site.
I forgot about Ocean BMW and Mercedes South West too, still independent.
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