Arval lease charges - Key missing

[BJPPJB]

Hi All,

After a bit of advice here if possible. Wife returned her car after a 4 year lease.

Chap picks it up, identifies a scratched wheel (absolutely fine with this) and that the second key didn’t work. I was on a works call at the time, but told the wife I can swap the battery if required (it was the battery 100%) no need to apparently was the response from the inspector.

Anyway, I was there at the point of signature and asked the chap directly what has been noted, he the said wheel scratch, and that what was reflected on the tablet screen. Wife reads it and signs. Cue a charge of £268 for a wheel and missing key today.

The exchange was hopefully all caught on ring camera, but I can’t pull the audio from it and check at the moment.

Question is, is it worth contesting, not sure if there is a different category for a none working key vs missing key etc. if captured on the doorbell camera would that help? I suspect other than goodwill from Arval, as the wife signed we will have to suck it up!

[ADJimbo]

BJPPJB said:

Hi All,

After a bit of advice here if possible. Wife returned her car after a 4 year lease.

Chap picks it up, identifies a scratched wheel (absolutely fine with this) and that the second key didn t work. I was on a works call at the time, but told the wife I can swap the battery if required (it was the battery 100%) no need to apparently was the response from the inspector.

Anyway, I was there at the point of signature and asked the chap directly what has been noted, he the said wheel scratch, and that what was reflected on the tablet screen. Wife reads it and signs. Cue a charge of £268 for a wheel and missing key today.

The exchange was hopefully all caught on ring camera, but I can t pull the audio from it and check at the moment.

Question is, is it worth contesting, not sure if there is a different category for a none working key vs missing key etc. if captured on the doorbell camera would that help? I suspect other than goodwill from Arval, as the wife signed we will have to suck it up!

For clarity, does the Lessor state the second key is inoperative and they actually have it or it’s not been returned?

[BJPPJB]

Hopefully that works, that’s the exact statement.

[ilikejam]

Did you get a copy of the report from the guy collecting it at the time?

Definitely contest that either way. "Key wasn't missing. GTF"

[Trevor555]

You handed over 2 keys so there's no keys missing.

Contest

Give them 14 days to correct, or you'll make a complaint to the FCA.

[Theoldguard]

Sorry to jump on this, the wife's car goes back next week after 4 years, I have never had any problems with charges on previous returns but they have all been 2 year leases, this one being 4 years and 50k miles has more scratches, chips, key has been dropped a few more times and battery on one fob is playing up, etc, it's never going to be in the same condition as a 2 year old 20k mile car. Is the age and mileage taken into account during inspections, if I went to see a 2 year old car with lower mileage I would expect it to be in better condition than a 4 year old vehicle with 50k miles and surely that is why older cars are cheaper as we expect more imperfection.

[Mark V GTD]

There is a published BVRLA guide that explains what is classed as acceptable wear and tear. I don’t think it’s specifically mileage or age related but explains the acceptable limits for a variety of damages.

[ADJimbo]

BJPPJB said:

Hopefully that works, that s the exact statement.

Thanks for the clarity. I’ve had albeit very, very brief gander at Arvals Terms & Cons on returning leased vehicles;

Detail here;

https://www.arval.co.uk/sites/default/files/153/20...

Check P.8 of their T&C’s on the matter of keys. It loosely drafted but defined. (“In working order”) will quite clearly come into play here and it sounds like it wasn’t. You’ll have signed upto this on collection but can’t clarify without further sight of lease agreement.

It’s a funny one in all fairness - you could argue the costs associated with the replacement battery is, at best £15.00 and that Arval have charges are overly punitive , failed to mitigate their losses and seek redress in the Civil if you’re up for it but I doubt it would get stopped before your argument came from the starting blocks…

My professional opinion, based on very limited information, take this on the chin.

[paul_c123]

They can charge you for the battery but that's going to be about £2-3. (I don't know where the previous poster got the £15 figure from!)

Definitely worth a complaint.

Obviously too late for you, but for others, if this happens, swap the battery between the two key fobs and demonstrate that both fobs work (once they have a battery with some energy in it); or better still, rummage round or buy a battery in good time.

[BJPPJB]

Thanks all.

The wife has had a conversation with them today and as per ADJimbo's link above, I've found the 2025 version here:

https://www.arval.co.uk/sites/default/files/229/20...



They are saying there isn't an option for a damaged key, i.e. it gets classed as "missing" even if its returned, but isn't working as per the outline above. What's especially annoying is that if I wasn't on a work call at the time, I'd have swapped the battery there and then (I must have 20+ CR2032's in the garage!)

Therefore, other than a bit of an email whinge to them, realistically I don't think it's worth progressing (Our word against theirs). We will ask for evidence on where on the form it stated about the key, Arval saying there was something else signed (The wife's memory appears to be quite forgetful at the moment!) and I did take a look at the doorbell camera footage (of which the audio is awful) and short of spending time trying to enhance the audio I think we'll take it on the chin.

In fairness, the car had the maintenance package and in the 8000 miles the car has done (Yes 8000) its had three new tyres, 2 puncture repairs via roadside assistance, 4 services and 2 MOT's all covered by the package, so we are probably all square in reality.

Thanks again

EDIT: Apparently the wife didn't clearly relay the message about changing the battery as per my original post, as she was distracted by the simultaneous arrival of her new lease (Perfect timing in respect of getting rid of one and the new one arriving)

Edited by BJPPJB on Tuesday 10th June 21:23

[ADJimbo]

paul_c123 said:

They can charge you for the battery but that's going to be about £2-3. (I don't know where the previous poster got the £15 figure from!)

Definitely worth a complaint.

Obviously too late for you, but for others, if this happens, swap the battery between the two key fobs and demonstrate that both fobs work (once they have a battery with some energy in it); or better still, rummage round or buy a battery in good time.

£15.00 - Battery of say £2, Labour rate of say 6 minutes to fit (not unreasonable) charged in minute increments, at a ratio of the average Labour rate of £76.00/hr and then add the VAT lands on the number of £11.52. Add on their margin of say, 30% lands us on £14.98. I do apologise for my rounding up by £0.02.

I do hope this explains my calculations.

[ADJimbo]

BJPPJB said:

Thanks all.

The wife has had a conversation with them today and as per ADJimbo's link above, I've found the 2025 version here:

https://www.arval.co.uk/sites/default/files/229/20...



They are saying there isn't an option for a damaged key, i.e. it gets classed as "missing" even if its returned, but isn't working as per the outline above. What's especially annoying is that if I wasn't on a work call at the time, I'd have swapped the battery there and then (I must have 20+ CR2032's in the garage!)

Therefore, other than a bit of an email whinge to them, realistically I don't think it's worth progressing (Our word against theirs). We will ask for evidence on where on the form it stated about the key, Arval saying there was something else signed (The wife's memory appears to be quite forgetful at the moment!) and I did take a look at the doorbell camera footage (of which the audio is awful) and short of spending time trying to enhance the audio I think we'll take it on the chin.

In fairness, the car had the maintenance package and in the 8000 miles the car has done (Yes 8000) its had three new tyres, 2 puncture repairs via roadside assistance, 4 services and 2 MOT's all covered by the package, so we are probably all square in reality.

Thanks again

EDIT: Apparently the wife didn't clearly relay the message about changing the battery as per my original post, as she was distracted by the simultaneous arrival of her new lease (Perfect timing in respect of getting rid of one and the new one arriving)

Edited by BJPPJB on Tuesday 10th June 21:23

I concur wholeheartedly with your thought process. At least you’ve got to the bottom of it…

That said, if a random man in the street asked for my advice, in pure rage and sheer vengeance over the issue, to mess the Lessor about, I’d advise said random man to deploy a subject access request to achieve all of the documents throughout the lease period - including hard copies of the documents your Wife signed (I’m unclear if the Vehicle Lease was in yours or your Wife’s name - you might want to issue the same request twice but in your name and her name (for the avoidance of doubt) and the work the Lessors in-house legal team have to undertake would dwarf the £200 you have lost on their in-house costs to achieve your legal request for said documentation.

Will it get you your £200 notes back? No chance,

Will it give you and your Wife a damn good laugh when your two respective cardboard boxes arrive knowing they’ve had to plough thousands into this request to give you what’s legally yours. Who knows…

I suppose it depends on your sense of humour really.

[Sheepshanks]

ADJimbo said:

paul_c123 said:

They can charge you for the battery but that's going to be about £2-3. (I don't know where the previous poster got the £15 figure from!)

Definitely worth a complaint.

Obviously too late for you, but for others, if this happens, swap the battery between the two key fobs and demonstrate that both fobs work (once they have a battery with some energy in it); or better still, rummage round or buy a battery in good time.

£15.00 - Battery of say £2, Labour rate of say 6 minutes to fit (not unreasonable) charged in minute increments, at a ratio of the average Labour rate of £76.00/hr and then add the VAT lands on the number of £11.52. Add on their margin of say, 30% lands us on £14.98. I do apologise for my rounding up by £0.02.

I do hope this explains my calculations.

A SEAT dealer charged one of my daughters £12 (£10 + VAT) for changing a fob battery so £15 isn’t unreasonable, especially as Arval is an admin company not a garage.

On the OPs issue, I wouldn’t willingly pay. It must be frequent that people dig the second key out of a drawer on return day and it doesn’t work. Nice for Arval to get another £200 out of it.

Sweeping generalisation - no point in trying to get wife to wind them up, she’ll just shrug and accept the cost.

[Trevor555]

No way would I drop this.

The description of "missing" and a charge of £200 is very different to a key needing a battery.

Call the FCA for advice, that's what they're there for.

A £200 charge for a key needing a battery is not reasonable.

[FWIW]

Trevor555 said:

No way would I drop this.

The description of "missing" and a charge of £200 is very different to a key needing a battery.

Call the FCA for advice, that's what they're there for.

A £200 charge for a key needing a battery is not reasonable.

100% this ^

[ilikejam]

I suppose it's a bit like your car failing MOT for no washer fluid - you think to yourself "Just put some f**king water in it then!!", but they won't.

I'd definitely still contest it as much as possible though. As PP above, even if you get nothing back, you can at least satisfy yourself that you've wasted more than the £268's worth of their time in administering your complaints!

[Mark V GTD]

ilikejam said:

I suppose it's a bit like your car failing MOT for no washer fluid - you think to yourself "Just put some f**king water in it then!!", but they won't.

No, its like the MOT tester failing your car on a missing washer fluid reservoir when in reality it was just empty.

[alfabeat]

No way on earth would I be accepting that. These lease companies try it on all the time. VW Finance tried it on with me when we returned a car a few years back, but a quick email contesting the charges (which were not picked up during the lengthy hand back inspection) had most of them discharged.

Please don't roll over.

[BJPPJB]

Well... Despite the wife saying she was just going to leave it, seems she's been in contact with them. "They are checking with the auction company whether changing the battery fixes the key" I suspect, the chances of this happening are slim to none, however lets see.

I wonder if I can find out where its ended up?

Thanks all.

[maz8062]

Mate, you have to take these things seriously. There's a cottage industry in fleecing "busy" lessees that shrug and make assumptions that they'll be charged a gob stopper and a bag of sherbet for "minor" oversight/damage/insert what you want t&c's - they won't.

Best to argue the toss, or let your Mrs, you're busy after all. You might win, you might not, but they'll keep on sending you computer generated emails threatening your credit score until they won't. I just ignore them and get on with my life - it never goes beyond that, but there's hassle involved.