Porsche 968 Club Sport v Alpine A110
Discussion
I don't suppose anyone has owned/driven both and could give some opinions?
I'm starting to get a "new" car itch again. It'll take a little while to sort logistically, I think, but am starting to look at my options.
Main criteria are (1) sub-1800mm wide, (2) high quality driving experience and (3) interesting (and sub-£40k really as it will be a second/third car) Ultimate speed isn't the biggest factor as I'm increasingly finding you can't use most of the performance modern cars offer on public roads.
(1) is driven by the roads I predominately use being country b-roads. So the narrower the car the better. I have a Caterham 7...so that gives me one end of the envelope (wouldn't want narrower for something that could be a more frequently used car - though maybe a tandem seater could work
). My old B7 RS4 and current TVR Griffith are a bit over 1800mm, but work/ed pretty well on these roads, so decided to set the other end of the envelope there.
(2) has obvious motivations (save for the family wagon, all my cars have had this as a key requirement).
(3) is because I prefer to keep my cars a while, and them being interesting is key to this.
Which has led me to the subject of the thread. I think both cars, whilst quite different, tick all of these boxes.
A 928 article on here got me thinking about those (love the look of them), but good ones are pretty much over what I'd ideally like to spend, run costs are potentially heavy and they're also over my width limit
Which led to the 968. Always had a passing interest in these after a boss owned a CS 30yrs ago. Like the way they look but never had the chance to drive one. Mixed reviews have always suggested they might be a bit...dull?
The Alpine is getting rave reviews. I think they look better in the metal than in photos (though have only ever seen one in person). And also ticks other boxes.
A GR Yaris breaches the width limit. GR86/BRZ doesn't float my boat from an "interesting" pov. And couldn't think of anytting else. So thought I'd ask the long-shot question
I'm starting to get a "new" car itch again. It'll take a little while to sort logistically, I think, but am starting to look at my options.
Main criteria are (1) sub-1800mm wide, (2) high quality driving experience and (3) interesting (and sub-£40k really as it will be a second/third car) Ultimate speed isn't the biggest factor as I'm increasingly finding you can't use most of the performance modern cars offer on public roads.
(1) is driven by the roads I predominately use being country b-roads. So the narrower the car the better. I have a Caterham 7...so that gives me one end of the envelope (wouldn't want narrower for something that could be a more frequently used car - though maybe a tandem seater could work
). My old B7 RS4 and current TVR Griffith are a bit over 1800mm, but work/ed pretty well on these roads, so decided to set the other end of the envelope there.(2) has obvious motivations (save for the family wagon, all my cars have had this as a key requirement).
(3) is because I prefer to keep my cars a while, and them being interesting is key to this.
Which has led me to the subject of the thread. I think both cars, whilst quite different, tick all of these boxes.
A 928 article on here got me thinking about those (love the look of them), but good ones are pretty much over what I'd ideally like to spend, run costs are potentially heavy and they're also over my width limit
Which led to the 968. Always had a passing interest in these after a boss owned a CS 30yrs ago. Like the way they look but never had the chance to drive one. Mixed reviews have always suggested they might be a bit...dull?
The Alpine is getting rave reviews. I think they look better in the metal than in photos (though have only ever seen one in person). And also ticks other boxes.
A GR Yaris breaches the width limit. GR86/BRZ doesn't float my boat from an "interesting" pov. And couldn't think of anytting else. So thought I'd ask the long-shot question
Owned a 968CS and driven the Alpine several times
Completely different cars. Alpine is like an old Boxster or MX5 (owned both) - tremendous fun even at low speeds go-kart like handling and smiles
The CS is beautiful to look at (esp in Speed Yellow) but obviously underpowered for the chassis / driving potential. A great everyday classic - you’ll get lots of admiring looks - but a very different drive
Completely different cars. Alpine is like an old Boxster or MX5 (owned both) - tremendous fun even at low speeds go-kart like handling and smiles
The CS is beautiful to look at (esp in Speed Yellow) but obviously underpowered for the chassis / driving potential. A great everyday classic - you’ll get lots of admiring looks - but a very different drive
If you're considering a 968, shouldn't a GR86 also be on the list? Very similar layout/packaging etc but a much more modern ownership proposition. Clearly not as performant as the Alpine, but being naturally aspirated has better throttle response and it also has better steering feel.
I've driven both, although admittedly the 968 was on track.
I was underwhelmed by the CS, it felt slow and that was in comparison to my car which was an Exige S2 S. Not just from a speed perspective but from every perspective. It felt a bit lethargic to me. Most likely it was due to the setup, front engine rear wheel drive and having lovely balance but without that much power.
I remember coming away feeling a bit disappointed that one of my hero cars was not so great. On the road, perhaps it might have felt different as the lack of power wouldn't have shown so much.
The Alpine, I drove last year in the Alps and it was superb. It feels light, agile and quick. I was driving my friends whilst he drove my 718 GT4. I thought I would get frustrated with the dsg gearbox, but it was quick enough and suited the car. I've owned a few lotus and the Alpine feels like the love child of a Lotus and Porsche. I'd have one, if I din't have the GT4.
Good luck on your decision
I was underwhelmed by the CS, it felt slow and that was in comparison to my car which was an Exige S2 S. Not just from a speed perspective but from every perspective. It felt a bit lethargic to me. Most likely it was due to the setup, front engine rear wheel drive and having lovely balance but without that much power.
I remember coming away feeling a bit disappointed that one of my hero cars was not so great. On the road, perhaps it might have felt different as the lack of power wouldn't have shown so much.
The Alpine, I drove last year in the Alps and it was superb. It feels light, agile and quick. I was driving my friends whilst he drove my 718 GT4. I thought I would get frustrated with the dsg gearbox, but it was quick enough and suited the car. I've owned a few lotus and the Alpine feels like the love child of a Lotus and Porsche. I'd have one, if I din't have the GT4.
Good luck on your decision
five50 said:
Haven’t watched it but would say that there is a massive difference in ownership proposition between a 40 year old (or thereabouts) Porsche and a modern car reasonably fresh from the factory.
That's true, though have had cars at most age points so comfy with the compromises.Was also thinking that 968s come from an old school Porsche era so are hopefully pretty robust. And adding modern accoutrements is easy enough to do subtly these days.
jont- said:
If you're considering a 968, shouldn't a GR86 also be on the list? Very similar layout/packaging etc but a much more modern ownership proposition. Clearly not as performant as the Alpine, but being naturally aspirated has better throttle response and it also has better steering feel.
Has been considered. They just seem a bit... dull.Am reading plenty that the performance is a bit uninspiring and the same goes on the outside to these eyes.
Performance on the 968 is the main thing that makes me wonder - not outright, but is a 3l 4-pot going to suit barreling down b-roads.
As I get older, am appreciating DSG/transmission-less fast driving too, which points in the Alpine's favour
I need to find time to sneak out and drive them...doing that with a 968 is likely to be a challenge.
Murph7355 said:
Has been considered. They just seem a bit... dull.
Am reading plenty that the performance is a bit uninspiring and the same goes on the outside to these eyes.
Performance on the 968 is the main thing that makes me wonder - not outright, but is a 3l 4-pot going to suit barreling down b-roads.
As I get older, am appreciating DSG/transmission-less fast driving too, which points in the Alpine's favour
I need to find time to sneak out and drive them...doing that with a 968 is likely to be a challenge.
I had a GR86 for a short time (alongside my Alpine...) and I enjoyed it a lot, there is a huge amount of potential in it. However, it was never 'special' enough and the kids very quickly outgrew the back seats, so it was a short lived affair for me. I'd certainly be putting ahead of the 968CS all day long. Am reading plenty that the performance is a bit uninspiring and the same goes on the outside to these eyes.
Performance on the 968 is the main thing that makes me wonder - not outright, but is a 3l 4-pot going to suit barreling down b-roads.
As I get older, am appreciating DSG/transmission-less fast driving too, which points in the Alpine's favour
I need to find time to sneak out and drive them...doing that with a 968 is likely to be a challenge.
However, I'd pick the A110 ahead of both.
ThisInJapanese said:
I had a GR86 for a short time (alongside my Alpine...) and I enjoyed it a lot, there is a huge amount of potential in it. However, it was never 'special' enough and the kids very quickly outgrew the back seats, so it was a short lived affair for me. I'd certainly be putting ahead of the 968CS all day long.
However, I'd pick the A110 ahead of both.
+1 I tried a GR86 too and for me the all round refinement of the A110 - as well as the peformance put the A110 in a different category.. The GR86 felt old fashioned - which doubtless will appeal to some, but not to me. I also thought the artificial noise piped through the speakers was dreadful - though apparently it is easy to disable it. However, I'd pick the A110 ahead of both.
All that said the GR86 is not without merit and certainly worth a test drive. Under general gassing you will find a GR86 buyers guide with a lot of positive comments.
Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 14th April 12:02
Have only driven a regular 968, not a CS, but the engine was a deal breaker. Doesn't sound good enough and insufficient thrust - and I am by no means a power junky. Nice old-school engineering vibe otherwise, but I couldn't live with the engine, personally.
The turbo engine and compulsory paddles are the problem with the otherwise lovely Alpine. Very appealing car in many ways, but personally, I'd miss manual far too much and I really, really want a musical engine in a car like that as opposed to a farty modern four banger. That's a subjective thing.
Worth noting the both 987C and 981C come in at 1,801mm, so barely above your 1,800mm stipulation. Neither are perfect and they have slightly different strengths / weaknesses, but I'd probably add a 987R and a 981S to your shortlist, at least.
The turbo engine and compulsory paddles are the problem with the otherwise lovely Alpine. Very appealing car in many ways, but personally, I'd miss manual far too much and I really, really want a musical engine in a car like that as opposed to a farty modern four banger. That's a subjective thing.
Worth noting the both 987C and 981C come in at 1,801mm, so barely above your 1,800mm stipulation. Neither are perfect and they have slightly different strengths / weaknesses, but I'd probably add a 987R and a 981S to your shortlist, at least.
I owned a 968 Club Sport (Yellow, sold by Charles Ivey). Things the Pork did better: steering, gearshift, luggage space. And pop-up headlamps, obviously!
Things the Alpine does better: character, noise, acceleration, high-tech convenience.
Ride/roadholding I'm not sure about, it's been many years, but I'd say about equal. Brakes on both are, for road purposes, excellent.
I have to say, I wouldn't mind another 968, and a bit of work by Ninemeister would up the specialness to the point that it would be as good as the Alpine in the areas that it lacks.
Things the Alpine does better: character, noise, acceleration, high-tech convenience.
Ride/roadholding I'm not sure about, it's been many years, but I'd say about equal. Brakes on both are, for road purposes, excellent.
I have to say, I wouldn't mind another 968, and a bit of work by Ninemeister would up the specialness to the point that it would be as good as the Alpine in the areas that it lacks.
I do have both. Albeit regular 968 not a CS. Two absolutely different cars. 968 is a classic, old school Porsche coming from the gone by era. It feels very agricultural and very slow compared to a modern Alpine. As neon_fox wrote before 968 has a better steering feel, decent manual gearbox, much better road holding at speed, better brakes, though that may be subjective. You can load a truckload into 968 compared to an Alpine. Alpine is much more modern, much much quicker of the line, is quieter inside. 968 can be used as a daily but if you're coming from a modern car it would be a shock I reckon. Funny fact - when driving across Europe not many people know what a 968 is and many kids no matter what country you're in point fingers at 968 and shout "look, Ferrari, Ferrari!"
Murph7355 said:
Performance on the 968 is the main thing that makes me wonder - not outright, but is a 3l 4-pot going to suit barreling down b-roads.
I owned a 968CS and used it on road as well as doing a reasonable amount of trackdays. The 968 is a well balanced vehicle; however, never felt quick. It was enjoyable to drive on a tight circuit but I disliked long straights and sections where the lack of grunt from the engine worked against it. Mine was a nice example and the engine had been overhauled, as had the suspension. To say it was an excellent Club Sport would be fair; thus, we aren't talking about a tired, sad leggy example, of which there are many. For me, they fall into the category of what they were when they were new: a cost effective entry into Porsche, with may of the obvious pitfalls: lack of outright power being the main one. No matter which way you look at it, vehicle and engine design, as well as dynamics, have come a long way in 30-years. Comparing the 968CS, which is simply an entry level Porsche with interior parts removed, with the addition of a mildly improved suspension, to an A110, which has all the benefits of decades of motor vehicle improvements as well as being designed from the outset to be light and nimble, isn't really a fair comparison.
I've owned many cars since the 968CS which were equally capable and more enjoyable to drive, which says less about the 968, because it is a good vehicle, but more about how generally, across the entire market, the quality of cars has gotten better.
Imho, the 968CS is a modern classic, so if you want to compare it, it makes the most sense to look at the contemporaries from the same era.
I owned a 968, not a club sport but a tiptronic cabriolet. I owned it for over 20 years. Not the most reliable car I’ve owned either. I now have an Alpine A110 Premiere Edition and find it a much more involving car, the handling is in a different class to the 968.
One downside is when it’s very windy it’s a little too skittish at speed due to the very light weight, just over 1000kgs. The other is no glovebox or door bins. Goes without saying that it doesn’t have a cup holder. I have just driven down to SW France with the dog, wife is flying down later this week! Fabulous drive on the smooth roads of France. You just need to be focused on what you actually need, space is very limited.
Test drive both. Alpine dealers tend to let you take the car for the day, probably because it sells itself!
Gear changes via paddles are brilliant and low geared too so you can enjoy it without exceeding the speed limit in 2nd gear. Not much, including much more expensive supercars, will keep up with an Alpine on the twisty bits, it’s greatest strength imo. All cars are boring on motorways.
One downside is when it’s very windy it’s a little too skittish at speed due to the very light weight, just over 1000kgs. The other is no glovebox or door bins. Goes without saying that it doesn’t have a cup holder. I have just driven down to SW France with the dog, wife is flying down later this week! Fabulous drive on the smooth roads of France. You just need to be focused on what you actually need, space is very limited.
Test drive both. Alpine dealers tend to let you take the car for the day, probably because it sells itself!
Gear changes via paddles are brilliant and low geared too so you can enjoy it without exceeding the speed limit in 2nd gear. Not much, including much more expensive supercars, will keep up with an Alpine on the twisty bits, it’s greatest strength imo. All cars are boring on motorways.
Edited by Albionmuz on Monday 14th April 19:00
Edited by Albionmuz on Monday 14th April 19:02
Edited by Albionmuz on Monday 14th April 19:04
Albionmuz said:
o. All cars are boring on motorways.
True, of course -but an A110 is less boring and less irritating there than true modern alternatives - and far less so than 50 year old alternatives. When testing sports cars testers (quite reasonably) focus on fun/handling/performance - rather than refinement in every day usage. If you use a car every day refinement/convenience/practicality come more into focus. If fun/handing/performance are sacrifced as a result then you might regard that is too high a price to pay. If not, why wear a hair shirt? Edited by Albionmuz on Monday 14th April 19:00
Edited by Albionmuz on Monday 14th April 19:02
Edited by Albionmuz on Monday 14th April 19:04
Comparing the dynamics of a 30 year old car with a modern one seems somewhat unrealistic.
Owned a 968CS when it was modern and it was pretty good for my daily use case - of course it’s not.a 6 or 8 cylinder but that rather misses the point of the package. You obviously need to drive both yourself to see which appeals. Running/ maintaining a 968 now will require a good budget if you want to preserve its value I’d have thought. Mine was one of the most expensive cars I’ve run when it was nearly new so you would want an example that had been well looked after.
Owned a 968CS when it was modern and it was pretty good for my daily use case - of course it’s not.a 6 or 8 cylinder but that rather misses the point of the package. You obviously need to drive both yourself to see which appeals. Running/ maintaining a 968 now will require a good budget if you want to preserve its value I’d have thought. Mine was one of the most expensive cars I’ve run when it was nearly new so you would want an example that had been well looked after.
f6box said:
Have only driven a regular 968, not a CS, but the engine was a deal breaker. Doesn't sound good enough and insufficient thrust - and I am by no means a power junky. Nice old-school engineering vibe otherwise, but I couldn't live with the engine, personally.
The turbo engine and compulsory paddles are the problem with the otherwise lovely Alpine. Very appealing car in many ways, but personally, I'd miss manual far too much and I really, really want a musical engine in a car like that as opposed to a farty modern four banger. That's a subjective thing.
Worth noting the both 987C and 981C come in at 1,801mm, so barely above your 1,800mm stipulation. Neither are perfect and they have slightly different strengths / weaknesses, but I'd probably add a 987R and a 981S to your shortlist, at least.
Not sure I'm up for a Cayman. I much prefer the look of the latest version - also that 1mm over my limit The turbo engine and compulsory paddles are the problem with the otherwise lovely Alpine. Very appealing car in many ways, but personally, I'd miss manual far too much and I really, really want a musical engine in a car like that as opposed to a farty modern four banger. That's a subjective thing.
Worth noting the both 987C and 981C come in at 1,801mm, so barely above your 1,800mm stipulation. Neither are perfect and they have slightly different strengths / weaknesses, but I'd probably add a 987R and a 981S to your shortlist, at least.
- but for some reason I'd always be thinking it should be a 911 (which I've owned and loved...).A decent paddle shift box is fine by me. Engine noise I have some sympathy about, but it's not the be all and end all, and there aren't many that I find that great. A 6cyl would be pointing me towards BMW or Merc in all likelihood, which don't tick the other boxes.
Test drove a 968CS many moons ago… thought it was gutless, so bought one of the final 944 Turbos instead.
Drove an A110 a couple of years ago. It was faster than the 944 Turbo, which would make it much faster than a 968CS.
My 944 Turbo had the M030 pack, which made it a far more controlled and serious feeling car than the Alpine. The Alpine was much softer riding.
Drove an A110 a couple of years ago. It was faster than the 944 Turbo, which would make it much faster than a 968CS.
My 944 Turbo had the M030 pack, which made it a far more controlled and serious feeling car than the Alpine. The Alpine was much softer riding.
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