What is going to replace our E-Up? Small used EV's
Discussion
We have a leased E-Up! It will go back in December. We need to think about a replacement. It's main use is the school bus for two kids plus lots of local journeys. Lots of time to ponder this but the reason I'm thinking about it now, is that we could go one of two ways with this. My preference is to buy a used EV outright but the other option would be to buy/pcp/lease a new car. And if the latter were the plan, we might need to look at lead times so a decision might not be as far off as it would seem. So the purpose of this thread was to really just make sure there were a few used options that make sense so that we can forget the idea of ordering new.
The biggest problem here is me. I really don't want something totally bland. The E-Up! just about scrapes by by being slightly characterful, okay to drive etc but I really cannot get excited about Leafs, 208's Corsas etc. Just totally anonymous boxes. I realise that stuff is hard to define and very subjective but I may as well be honest about my feelings on this. To spend a lot of money on something, I really have to like it.
The good things about the E-Up! for us: Space inside and in the boot absolutely ample for our needs. Drives quite well. Looks quite funky in a bright colour. Interior and kit etc all good. Downsides: Range is okay and we get by just fine but more range would open up new uses for the car. VW app is crap. VW dealer is crap. Only four seats. Lane keep assist defaulting to on and being dangerous. Not much poke. TC cannot be deactivated which can be problematic in winter driving. And lastly, at 25k miles and despite being pretty fastidious with looking after it, it already feels a little tired. The suspension in particular is creaking terribly. We do have the option of extending the lease or maybe even buying the car at the end. Neither look all that tempting from a value POV.
Anyway, that's the background waffle over with. On the used market I think I can really only see two cars that appeal. Both about £15k.
1. Honda E
2. BMW i3
The Honda has a small battery. No getting around it. We'd probably be fine using it as we do the VW but it is certainly not going to move the game on and arguably might be a slight backward step. I'm also very unsure about the camera mirrors. I just need to drive one really as it seems a bit of a split opinion from those that already have. Still just four seats. RWD might be fun a lot of the time but could be a hinderance on snow. The real appeal of these is the funky looks and interior, though I'm not sure about the enormous amount of screen space. Just a little concerned about buying quite a compromised car for style more than substance. Prepared to have my arm twisted as I do really like them.
The BMW really appeals to the engineering nerd in me. Love the composite construction, the low weight, airy cabin and unusual materials. They go well. Range is a fraction better than the E-Up! on the models we'd be looking at, not life changing. I've driven a couple and like them though the ride is firm. Personally love the styling inside and out. I know it's marmite but it's only the wife and me it needs to appeal to. RWD again might be a pain in snow. Big worry here is the rear door arrangement. Is this going to be a massive pain with at least one child having to go in the back on each school run. Rear windows can't be wound down and only four seats again. We have had three door cars in the past and this stuff becomes a pain but maybe this is somewhat less of a chore than a three door?
I have thought about lots of other avenues. New cars on the radar are the R5 and even the Dacia Spring holds some appeal though I think only 65 bhp might put an end to that latter idea. The R5 looks cool but quite a lot more money overall (of course, it's brand new)
Kia E-Niro and Hynudai Kona are probably both much more sensible 'normal' used cars but both are really hard to drum up any enthusiasm for. We could go larger with something like a Polestar but we really don't need anything that big and they are more money. Ioniq 5 bigger again and more money again. Tesla M3's look good value but not really appealing.
Am I missing anything here?
The biggest problem here is me. I really don't want something totally bland. The E-Up! just about scrapes by by being slightly characterful, okay to drive etc but I really cannot get excited about Leafs, 208's Corsas etc. Just totally anonymous boxes. I realise that stuff is hard to define and very subjective but I may as well be honest about my feelings on this. To spend a lot of money on something, I really have to like it.
The good things about the E-Up! for us: Space inside and in the boot absolutely ample for our needs. Drives quite well. Looks quite funky in a bright colour. Interior and kit etc all good. Downsides: Range is okay and we get by just fine but more range would open up new uses for the car. VW app is crap. VW dealer is crap. Only four seats. Lane keep assist defaulting to on and being dangerous. Not much poke. TC cannot be deactivated which can be problematic in winter driving. And lastly, at 25k miles and despite being pretty fastidious with looking after it, it already feels a little tired. The suspension in particular is creaking terribly. We do have the option of extending the lease or maybe even buying the car at the end. Neither look all that tempting from a value POV.
Anyway, that's the background waffle over with. On the used market I think I can really only see two cars that appeal. Both about £15k.
1. Honda E
2. BMW i3
The Honda has a small battery. No getting around it. We'd probably be fine using it as we do the VW but it is certainly not going to move the game on and arguably might be a slight backward step. I'm also very unsure about the camera mirrors. I just need to drive one really as it seems a bit of a split opinion from those that already have. Still just four seats. RWD might be fun a lot of the time but could be a hinderance on snow. The real appeal of these is the funky looks and interior, though I'm not sure about the enormous amount of screen space. Just a little concerned about buying quite a compromised car for style more than substance. Prepared to have my arm twisted as I do really like them.
The BMW really appeals to the engineering nerd in me. Love the composite construction, the low weight, airy cabin and unusual materials. They go well. Range is a fraction better than the E-Up! on the models we'd be looking at, not life changing. I've driven a couple and like them though the ride is firm. Personally love the styling inside and out. I know it's marmite but it's only the wife and me it needs to appeal to. RWD again might be a pain in snow. Big worry here is the rear door arrangement. Is this going to be a massive pain with at least one child having to go in the back on each school run. Rear windows can't be wound down and only four seats again. We have had three door cars in the past and this stuff becomes a pain but maybe this is somewhat less of a chore than a three door?
I have thought about lots of other avenues. New cars on the radar are the R5 and even the Dacia Spring holds some appeal though I think only 65 bhp might put an end to that latter idea. The R5 looks cool but quite a lot more money overall (of course, it's brand new)
Kia E-Niro and Hynudai Kona are probably both much more sensible 'normal' used cars but both are really hard to drum up any enthusiasm for. We could go larger with something like a Polestar but we really don't need anything that big and they are more money. Ioniq 5 bigger again and more money again. Tesla M3's look good value but not really appealing.
Am I missing anything here?
+1 for 500e, 42kWh one. I love mine. The range is excellent in town and if you get a La Prima loaded with kit and feels quite plush, for a small car. Range is 199 miles. Very nippy too and surprisingly good fun to drive, and MILES better than the ICE model before it. Really a very quirky thing especially if you get the cabrio which is a bit of a novelty.
Also consider the Hyundai Kona, its small.
Wouldn’t bother with the Honda e or the Mini Electric (F56), too compromised.
Have a look at the late model Renault Zoe Rapid charge too, really good cars with loadsa range. Just watch out that there is no height adjustment in the drivers seat even as an option so the seating position is slightly strange, and the batteries are under the rear seat so it is like a church pew. The headroom at the back is poor too because the roof pinches inwards. That being said the Zoe is a very good EV, the later models are quite plush, and very very well equipped. Look for the ones with the big screen inside. In my opinion the Zoe was the first true mass market EV that sold in good quantities and its quite interesting and intelligently designed.
Also consider the Hyundai Kona, its small.
Wouldn’t bother with the Honda e or the Mini Electric (F56), too compromised.
Have a look at the late model Renault Zoe Rapid charge too, really good cars with loadsa range. Just watch out that there is no height adjustment in the drivers seat even as an option so the seating position is slightly strange, and the batteries are under the rear seat so it is like a church pew. The headroom at the back is poor too because the roof pinches inwards. That being said the Zoe is a very good EV, the later models are quite plush, and very very well equipped. Look for the ones with the big screen inside. In my opinion the Zoe was the first true mass market EV that sold in good quantities and its quite interesting and intelligently designed.
dmsims said:
eGolf ?
I think they're all the same battery as the E-Up but in a bigger car? It is one I considered though. Not really enthusiastic about owning an older VW though. A few things VAG related that I've been quite unimpressed by on the up. It's a shame as there is much to like about the car itself. sixor8 said:
I'd be happy with a 'box' for short journeys myself, but I understand many wouldn't. For colour, there's some 'reasonable' lease offers on the electric mini, and the impending new Renault 5 EV may be worth considering.
Cheers. The R5 is very much on the radar thanks. Of the new options, it probably ticks most boxes. Hard to get past the thought of paying so much more than the used options (overall costs) but it's definitely not been ruled out. Skodillac said:
KIA Soul, DS3 Crossback, FIAT 500e, Mazda MX-30. Cupra Born is heading towards your budget too.
Thanks. DS3 looks like an interesting option. The Kia should appeal more than it does. I like that it's a little quirky but I think on that car I fall on the wrong side of the marmite styling. The Mazda has quite a low range I think but I should check that. They look nice enough. The Cupra, I'm really not keen on newer VAG ergonomics. I don't think the Fiat can be had as a 5 door can it? If 3 door only, I think that would totally rule it out for school stuff. V 02 said:
+1 for 500e, 42kWh one. I love mine. The range is excellent in town and if you get a La Prima loaded with kit and feels quite plush, for a small car. Range is 199 miles. Very nippy too and surprisingly good fun to drive, and MILES better than the ICE model before it. Really a very quirky thing especially if you get the cabrio which is a bit of a novelty.
Also consider the Hyundai Kona, its small.
Wouldn’t bother with the Honda e or the Mini Electric (F56), too compromised.
Have a look at the late model Renault Zoe Rapid charge too, really good cars with loadsa range. Just watch out that there is no height adjustment in the drivers seat even as an option so the seating position is slightly strange, and the batteries are under the rear seat so it is like a church pew. The headroom at the back is poor too because the roof pinches inwards. That being said the Zoe is a very good EV, the later models are quite plush, and very very well equipped. Look for the ones with the big screen inside. In my opinion the Zoe was the first true mass market EV that sold in good quantities and its quite interesting and intelligently designed.
Cheers. I should probably look at the zoe options more. They're quite bland but I know they're a well refined recipe. I think think the Fiats are all 3 door which is a shame. The Kona certainly an option but it's firmly on the safe but not interesting list. Also consider the Hyundai Kona, its small.
Wouldn’t bother with the Honda e or the Mini Electric (F56), too compromised.
Have a look at the late model Renault Zoe Rapid charge too, really good cars with loadsa range. Just watch out that there is no height adjustment in the drivers seat even as an option so the seating position is slightly strange, and the batteries are under the rear seat so it is like a church pew. The headroom at the back is poor too because the roof pinches inwards. That being said the Zoe is a very good EV, the later models are quite plush, and very very well equipped. Look for the ones with the big screen inside. In my opinion the Zoe was the first true mass market EV that sold in good quantities and its quite interesting and intelligently designed.
Gad-Westy said:
Skodillac said:
KIA Soul, DS3 Crossback, FIAT 500e, Mazda MX-30. Cupra Born is heading towards your budget too.
Thanks. DS3 looks like an interesting option. The Kia should appeal more than it does. I like that it's a little quirky but I think on that car I fall on the wrong side of the marmite styling. The Mazda has quite a low range I think but I should check that. They look nice enough. The Cupra, I'm really not keen on newer VAG ergonomics. I don't think the Fiat can be had as a 5 door can it? If 3 door only, I think that would totally rule it out for school stuff. Edited by Skodillac on Monday 20th January 12:10
Mazda mx30 looks good and drives well from what I've read. Obviously range is woeful but used prices do reflect that. Depends if you need the range?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025011781...
There seems to be a few smaller EVs on the way.
Hyundai inster
Renault 5 already out and I'm sure there's a 4 as well?
To me, a smallish EV for the school run and local journeys makes perfect sense.
I3 also looks good to me. I'd want the later fully electric one.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025011781...
There seems to be a few smaller EVs on the way.
Hyundai inster
Renault 5 already out and I'm sure there's a 4 as well?
To me, a smallish EV for the school run and local journeys makes perfect sense.
I3 also looks good to me. I'd want the later fully electric one.
Thanks for the further suggestions.
Fiat 600e. I guess this is the same car as the Jeep Avenger and presumably some other stelantis platform stuff? Nothing offensive about it but I can't see any obvious stand out reasons to go for one.
Kia EV3. Looks good but brand new model and not sure what deals are out there yet. Pretty big as well.
ID3. Good value but in my opinion VAG have really cocked up with that car. Ultra bland to look at and early ones are horrendous in terms of cabin and ergonomics. Tried to go all Tesla which is a dubious target anyway but at least Tesla have developed their system properly even if I don't like it. Speaking of Tesla. Putting politics aside, the M3 being a saloon is probably the biggest show stopper. We could probably work around that if we desperately wanted one but no, not really.
I'm conscious I'm sounding very hard to please here. I think that is because that's exactly the situation. Loads of very sensible, worthy offerings here but not much really floating my boat.
If I had to guess the outcome right now it would be that we'll not order anything new and go ahead with picking up a used car around lease termination time. If we spend a bit of time in an i3 and Honda E and neither hits that mark, I'll probably reluctantly go for one of the Kia or Hynundai options which appear to be actually very good, if slightly unexciting, cars.
Fiat 600e. I guess this is the same car as the Jeep Avenger and presumably some other stelantis platform stuff? Nothing offensive about it but I can't see any obvious stand out reasons to go for one.
Kia EV3. Looks good but brand new model and not sure what deals are out there yet. Pretty big as well.
ID3. Good value but in my opinion VAG have really cocked up with that car. Ultra bland to look at and early ones are horrendous in terms of cabin and ergonomics. Tried to go all Tesla which is a dubious target anyway but at least Tesla have developed their system properly even if I don't like it. Speaking of Tesla. Putting politics aside, the M3 being a saloon is probably the biggest show stopper. We could probably work around that if we desperately wanted one but no, not really.
I'm conscious I'm sounding very hard to please here. I think that is because that's exactly the situation. Loads of very sensible, worthy offerings here but not much really floating my boat.
If I had to guess the outcome right now it would be that we'll not order anything new and go ahead with picking up a used car around lease termination time. If we spend a bit of time in an i3 and Honda E and neither hits that mark, I'll probably reluctantly go for one of the Kia or Hynundai options which appear to be actually very good, if slightly unexciting, cars.
Gad-Westy said:
Thanks for the further suggestions.
Fiat 600e. I guess this is the same car as the Jeep Avenger and presumably some other stelantis platform stuff? Nothing offensive about it but I can't see any obvious stand out reasons to go for one.
I was guessing that if you like the look of the 500e but 3 doors was a barrier, then the 600e is just a bigger 5 door version of that really. 500e is as much Stellantis stuff as any other FIAT or Jeep, or indeed Alfa now.Fiat 600e. I guess this is the same car as the Jeep Avenger and presumably some other stelantis platform stuff? Nothing offensive about it but I can't see any obvious stand out reasons to go for one.
How about Lexus UX300e?
Probably couldn't go far wrong with this.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024112566...
As you say, if you don't get on with it you could move it on without losing too much.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024112566...
As you say, if you don't get on with it you could move it on without losing too much.
Skodillac said:
I was guessing that if you like the look of the 500e but 3 doors was a barrier, then the 600e is just a bigger 5 door version of that really. 500e is as much Stellantis stuff as any other FIAT or Jeep, or indeed Alfa now.
How about Lexus UX300e?
Funnily enough I knew nothing about the Lexus until an hour or so ago. Used ones look good value. A bit big but could be a sensible option. How about Lexus UX300e?
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