Is Two Better Than One?
Discussion
My commute will soon be increasing from ~15 miles a day to more like 80, so Im contemplating changing my car. Some more relevant information about me, Im 21, am a devout petrolhead, and own a large dog.
Currently, I've got a Subaru Legacy Spec.b, the 3.0L quad cam flat 6, with the 6 speed manual. Its a rather rare car, so if I sell it I doubt Ill get another one. If I do replace it, itll be with a dirt cheap, relatively boring diesel estate, probably a Skoda Fabia, and a fun car of some kind, a BMW Z3/Z4, Porsche Boxster, that sort of thing.
So lets start with the things I like about my Legacy from a practical perspective; Its got a big boot, its spacious, its got good A/C, heated seats, cupholders, etc, everything you expect from a sensible estate car. Its also got a massive sunroof, and the rear seats do fold completely flat, and theres enough room for all 6 feet of me to lie down in the back. I neednt worry about snow, not that we ever get any, and its got a towbar and a 2000kg tow capacity, not that I ever tow anything more than an unbraked tip trailer. Ohh, and supprisingly, its dirt cheap for me to insure, Im paying £545 a year, fully comp. Its also relatively reliable, for an almost 20 year old car with almost 140k miles, and most parts arent ridiculously priced and are easy to fit.
Now for the things I dont like about it from a practical point of view; Its quite thirsty, on my shortish commute, Ive been averaging low 20s to the gallon, and on a long journey I get high 20s. I should note that Ive got quite a heavy foot, and if Im very very cautious and patient, I can get 30mpg by sitting at 50mph, but that sort of defeats the point. Other things, well its £415 a year to tax, it needs about £100 of servicing twice a year, tyres are about £140 each, and I got through the last set in about 8000 miles, because I drove it like a 20-year-old in a 250hp Subaru. Also one of the previous owners kindly installed a stupid clutch, which is a tad heavy and makes parallel parking on hills quite difficult, and the exhaust isnt standard so its quite loud, and catches on speedbumps quite a bit. Also, the standard Bilstein suspension is quite low and firm, and combined with the sporty tyres the ride isnt great, its by no means bad, but with some extra weight in it, its bad. Its got AVCS, which is Subarus version of VTEC/VANOS, and it comes on at 3500rpm, and its so much nicer above that than it is below. This means one tends to cruise at that engine speed in 6th gear, which is 85-90mph. This does have a dramatic effect on ones anus when spotting a speed camera. Lastly, because its my only car, and its quite a nice car (cost someone else almost £30K
when it was new) I dont like putting the dog in it. He does go in it from time to time, but theres no way hes going in it after being to the beach, for example, and so as a result, neither my dog or I have been to the beach for quite some time.
But none of that matters, because the good bits from a petrolheads perspective blow all those into the weeds. Lets start with the speed - its got about 250hp, it does 0-60 in 6 seconds in the wet, itll crack 150mph and it stops and steers brilliantly too. On a wet mountain road, its just about the fastest thing you can get, the only thing I can imagine being much quicker would be a lighter, more powerful Subaru, or similar. In the dry its still a great car, but it really pronounces its tallent in the wet. From a handling perspective, the stiffer rear ARB really sharpens things up, and it will oversteer slightly if you tell it to. The noise from the flat 6 is phenomenal, it revs past 7000rpm, and the close-ratio manual gearbox is a joy to use. If youve ever driven a quick Subaru, then youll know what Im on about. They all drive the same, pretty much, and theyre all fantastic. I also find the peddals fantastically positioned, and the feel of the brake peddal is great, and the travel is well set up. Heel-n-toe downshifts are a doddle. (As a sidenote, I really hate how the VAG group do peddals, the brakes come on way too soon into the peddal movement, and the floor mounted accelerator is really annoying, heel and toe is impossible, not that its necessary because the gearbox is so devoid of feel that you can just slam it into a lower gear without matching the revs and you dont even notice, its great from a daily driving use case, but its utterly unrewarding when you want a spirited drive. Ive read that all German cars are the same, so perhaps I should cross BMWs and Boxsters off my sportscar list?)
Complaints, from an enthusiasts standpoint, well I suppose one always wants more power. Also, Id like to have a go at modifying it a bit more, but Im concerned about what any changes I do will have to reliability, fuel consumption, ride comfort, noise, etc. As it is, the brakes, although excellent at a one-off braking event, they do fade quite easilly, and an upgrade is very expensive, a full set of 2nd hand Brembos would set me back close to £1000, and then Id need different wheels to clear them, and those wheels would need tyres, and then Id have to tell the insurance company, and voila, Ive spent the value of the car on a brake upgrade. Im sure a fanct set f EBC discs and pads with the standard callipers might help, so if I keep it Ill give those a try first. Also, being a relatiely big AWD estate car, its quite heavy, I think the kerbweight is 1565kg, so with fuel and a driver, thats 1700kg. I could make it a tiny bit lighter, ditching the electric seats, the sunroof, possibly lighter wheels etc, but again, its a trade-off between marginal performance gains and daily comfort, and expense. Put it simply, even if a Subaru is faster, I dont doubt that a RWD roadster is more fun.
I think that sums up the 1 car proposition quite nicely, and I have looked at alternatives, but really the only ones that make sense are the 3L diesel offerings from Audi and BMW, (everything else is either just as thirsty, or much slower) but they wont quite do for me, I dont think. Briefly, the 330D touring's boot is a joke, it may as well be a hatchback, and the Audi is too much of a compromise in terms of driving fun. Both are also less powerful and heavier than my current car, and I have raced a mapped 330D against my Legacy (on a private road, of course) , and the Bavarian car lost. Also, having asked around, they dont seem to do that great in terms of real-world fuel consumption, so I wouldnt actually be saving that much at the pumps, I dont think.
So, the two car option - this is a little more tricky to plot, because Im not exactly sure which cars they would be.
The boring diesel estate would be a Skoda Fabia Estate, for a few reasons, but mostly because its the cheapest to insure. Its also got a massive boot, bigger than my current car, bigger than a BMW 5 series, let alone a 3, and it can be had with the 1.9L PD engine. I might get a mapped one, but Ill probably just get whatever is local and cheap at the time. Also, consider this, a Fabia Estate is a hair under 1200kg, and from my reading, the injectors, turbos, and intercoolers from all the PD engines are interchangable, so with some very cheap parts from a breaker and a map, itll make 200hp, which is equivelant to over 300hp from something hefty like an Audi A6 or BMW 530D...
Thats largelly irrelevant, I think the dealbreaker for this will be the sportscar. A BMW Z3/Z4, a Porsche Boxster, an NC MX5, an MR2, all rather tempting. The flaw I see though, is that they arent actually that fast. My budget wont stretch to a Boxster S, or an MR2 Turbo, so the cars within budget arent actually all that spectacular. Most of them cost as much as my Subaru to tax, and Ive not checked, but I bet theyre more expensive for me to insure too. Ive no objection to spending money on cars, theyre my hobby afterall, but I do want to see some kind of value, even if thats just a substantially larger grin.
I also see another flaw in the two car system - by its very function, you spend most of the time in the boring car, and when you come onto a fun road, youre in a FWD diesel Skoda, not a zingy 6-pot performance machine. The fun car risks becoming just an ornament that sits on your driveway, because it costs three times as much to drive to the shops in it as it does to take the boring car. On the other hand, it means the dog can carry as much sand and seawater as he likes into the boot of the Skoda, because his muddy paws wont go in my "nice" car.
I never actually intended to post this, I was just organising my thoughts on the matter, but then I thought it would be rude not to let you lot contribute!
Currently, I've got a Subaru Legacy Spec.b, the 3.0L quad cam flat 6, with the 6 speed manual. Its a rather rare car, so if I sell it I doubt Ill get another one. If I do replace it, itll be with a dirt cheap, relatively boring diesel estate, probably a Skoda Fabia, and a fun car of some kind, a BMW Z3/Z4, Porsche Boxster, that sort of thing.
So lets start with the things I like about my Legacy from a practical perspective; Its got a big boot, its spacious, its got good A/C, heated seats, cupholders, etc, everything you expect from a sensible estate car. Its also got a massive sunroof, and the rear seats do fold completely flat, and theres enough room for all 6 feet of me to lie down in the back. I neednt worry about snow, not that we ever get any, and its got a towbar and a 2000kg tow capacity, not that I ever tow anything more than an unbraked tip trailer. Ohh, and supprisingly, its dirt cheap for me to insure, Im paying £545 a year, fully comp. Its also relatively reliable, for an almost 20 year old car with almost 140k miles, and most parts arent ridiculously priced and are easy to fit.
Now for the things I dont like about it from a practical point of view; Its quite thirsty, on my shortish commute, Ive been averaging low 20s to the gallon, and on a long journey I get high 20s. I should note that Ive got quite a heavy foot, and if Im very very cautious and patient, I can get 30mpg by sitting at 50mph, but that sort of defeats the point. Other things, well its £415 a year to tax, it needs about £100 of servicing twice a year, tyres are about £140 each, and I got through the last set in about 8000 miles, because I drove it like a 20-year-old in a 250hp Subaru. Also one of the previous owners kindly installed a stupid clutch, which is a tad heavy and makes parallel parking on hills quite difficult, and the exhaust isnt standard so its quite loud, and catches on speedbumps quite a bit. Also, the standard Bilstein suspension is quite low and firm, and combined with the sporty tyres the ride isnt great, its by no means bad, but with some extra weight in it, its bad. Its got AVCS, which is Subarus version of VTEC/VANOS, and it comes on at 3500rpm, and its so much nicer above that than it is below. This means one tends to cruise at that engine speed in 6th gear, which is 85-90mph. This does have a dramatic effect on ones anus when spotting a speed camera. Lastly, because its my only car, and its quite a nice car (cost someone else almost £30K
when it was new) I dont like putting the dog in it. He does go in it from time to time, but theres no way hes going in it after being to the beach, for example, and so as a result, neither my dog or I have been to the beach for quite some time.
But none of that matters, because the good bits from a petrolheads perspective blow all those into the weeds. Lets start with the speed - its got about 250hp, it does 0-60 in 6 seconds in the wet, itll crack 150mph and it stops and steers brilliantly too. On a wet mountain road, its just about the fastest thing you can get, the only thing I can imagine being much quicker would be a lighter, more powerful Subaru, or similar. In the dry its still a great car, but it really pronounces its tallent in the wet. From a handling perspective, the stiffer rear ARB really sharpens things up, and it will oversteer slightly if you tell it to. The noise from the flat 6 is phenomenal, it revs past 7000rpm, and the close-ratio manual gearbox is a joy to use. If youve ever driven a quick Subaru, then youll know what Im on about. They all drive the same, pretty much, and theyre all fantastic. I also find the peddals fantastically positioned, and the feel of the brake peddal is great, and the travel is well set up. Heel-n-toe downshifts are a doddle. (As a sidenote, I really hate how the VAG group do peddals, the brakes come on way too soon into the peddal movement, and the floor mounted accelerator is really annoying, heel and toe is impossible, not that its necessary because the gearbox is so devoid of feel that you can just slam it into a lower gear without matching the revs and you dont even notice, its great from a daily driving use case, but its utterly unrewarding when you want a spirited drive. Ive read that all German cars are the same, so perhaps I should cross BMWs and Boxsters off my sportscar list?)
Complaints, from an enthusiasts standpoint, well I suppose one always wants more power. Also, Id like to have a go at modifying it a bit more, but Im concerned about what any changes I do will have to reliability, fuel consumption, ride comfort, noise, etc. As it is, the brakes, although excellent at a one-off braking event, they do fade quite easilly, and an upgrade is very expensive, a full set of 2nd hand Brembos would set me back close to £1000, and then Id need different wheels to clear them, and those wheels would need tyres, and then Id have to tell the insurance company, and voila, Ive spent the value of the car on a brake upgrade. Im sure a fanct set f EBC discs and pads with the standard callipers might help, so if I keep it Ill give those a try first. Also, being a relatiely big AWD estate car, its quite heavy, I think the kerbweight is 1565kg, so with fuel and a driver, thats 1700kg. I could make it a tiny bit lighter, ditching the electric seats, the sunroof, possibly lighter wheels etc, but again, its a trade-off between marginal performance gains and daily comfort, and expense. Put it simply, even if a Subaru is faster, I dont doubt that a RWD roadster is more fun.
I think that sums up the 1 car proposition quite nicely, and I have looked at alternatives, but really the only ones that make sense are the 3L diesel offerings from Audi and BMW, (everything else is either just as thirsty, or much slower) but they wont quite do for me, I dont think. Briefly, the 330D touring's boot is a joke, it may as well be a hatchback, and the Audi is too much of a compromise in terms of driving fun. Both are also less powerful and heavier than my current car, and I have raced a mapped 330D against my Legacy (on a private road, of course) , and the Bavarian car lost. Also, having asked around, they dont seem to do that great in terms of real-world fuel consumption, so I wouldnt actually be saving that much at the pumps, I dont think.
So, the two car option - this is a little more tricky to plot, because Im not exactly sure which cars they would be.
The boring diesel estate would be a Skoda Fabia Estate, for a few reasons, but mostly because its the cheapest to insure. Its also got a massive boot, bigger than my current car, bigger than a BMW 5 series, let alone a 3, and it can be had with the 1.9L PD engine. I might get a mapped one, but Ill probably just get whatever is local and cheap at the time. Also, consider this, a Fabia Estate is a hair under 1200kg, and from my reading, the injectors, turbos, and intercoolers from all the PD engines are interchangable, so with some very cheap parts from a breaker and a map, itll make 200hp, which is equivelant to over 300hp from something hefty like an Audi A6 or BMW 530D...
Thats largelly irrelevant, I think the dealbreaker for this will be the sportscar. A BMW Z3/Z4, a Porsche Boxster, an NC MX5, an MR2, all rather tempting. The flaw I see though, is that they arent actually that fast. My budget wont stretch to a Boxster S, or an MR2 Turbo, so the cars within budget arent actually all that spectacular. Most of them cost as much as my Subaru to tax, and Ive not checked, but I bet theyre more expensive for me to insure too. Ive no objection to spending money on cars, theyre my hobby afterall, but I do want to see some kind of value, even if thats just a substantially larger grin.
I also see another flaw in the two car system - by its very function, you spend most of the time in the boring car, and when you come onto a fun road, youre in a FWD diesel Skoda, not a zingy 6-pot performance machine. The fun car risks becoming just an ornament that sits on your driveway, because it costs three times as much to drive to the shops in it as it does to take the boring car. On the other hand, it means the dog can carry as much sand and seawater as he likes into the boot of the Skoda, because his muddy paws wont go in my "nice" car.
I never actually intended to post this, I was just organising my thoughts on the matter, but then I thought it would be rude not to let you lot contribute!
LotsOfLaughs said:
I dont like putting the dog in it. He does go in it from time to time, but theres no way hes going in it after being to the beach, for example, and so as a result, neither my dog or I have been to the beach for quite some time.
Keep the Subaru, get a boot liner and have it converted to LPG.In your case I'd say keep the Legacy & buy a decent estate to do the hard yards, I'd look for something like an Insignia/Mondeo (insurance quotes dependent of course) both are nicer places to be & as reliable.
Mondeo:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410255...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406301...
Vauxhall:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410135...
Mondeo:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410255...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406301...
Vauxhall:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410135...
Pit Pony said:
For a comute like that you need a reliable diesel shed. Zero depreciation. Throw it away when it f
ks up. Then the answer to your other problem is MX5
Agreed on the first bit, not so keen on an MX5. The engines are rather gutless, and I barely fit in them. Theyre also no longer the dirt cheap bangers they used to be, the days of the sub £1000 useable MX5 are gone, it seems. Anything with a decent MoT, a roof that doesnt leak, tyres that are round etc, start from about £2000, and for not much more than that you can get a BMW Z3/Z4 with the decent engines. Also, the MX5 is very hairdressery, not that I care much at all, and most other convertibles are no better, but still.ks up. Then the answer to your other problem is MX5 phil_cardiff said:
The answer to your 2nd car is handling, not performance.
My mx-5, on the right roads, never needed more than the 130 or so bhp it had.
Another vote for an MX5, hardly supprising given this is PH after all...My mx-5, on the right roads, never needed more than the 130 or so bhp it had.
130hp just isnt enough for me, I agree that in a ~1000kg car, you dont need 250+hp to have fun, but something that struggles to climb hills and overtake lorries isnt really what Ive got in mind.
hidetheelephants said:
Keep the Subaru, get a boot liner and have it converted to LPG.
A boot liner might do the trick, especially if I made it myself, so that it could be removed easilly etc. LPG isnt an option, itd cost thousands to have a system installed, Id loose the spare wheel, and I dont think anywhere near me sells it anymore either, and when they did it was 104.9p/L, and currently petrol is just under £1.30/L (although ripoff Rachel might soon change that)
ZX10R NIN said:
In your case I'd say keep the Legacy & buy a decent estate to do the hard yards, I'd look for something like an Insignia/Mondeo (insurance quotes dependent of course) both are nicer places to be & as reliable.
I suppose keeping the Legacy as a sportscar is an option, I do rather like it afterall. Then the diesel option is just a simple maths equation, the fuel savings compared to the costs of running it as a second car. From a quick estimate, Ill be spending £4000 a year on fuel just commuting to and from work (ouch), and that assumes prices dont go up. Assuming I still drove the Legacy to work once a week, that means the budget left is £3200, for the car, the fuel, the servicing, the MoT, the insurance, etc. Half that would go on fuel, so Ill ring my insurance company and see how much theyll fleece me for (given that Id otherwise be driving my Subaru, really they should pay me to drive it!)Id go for a Fabia Estate, I like them, theyre small and manouvrable, and the parts are much cheaper, and because its so much lighter, all the consuables last longer etc. Its not like I have people in the back seats often, so I really dont need anything as big as a Mondeo.
NDA said:
I have an 80 mile each way commute too. I bought a Tesla for it - it has covered 50,000 comically cheap and rapid miles and needs no servicing. As a commuting appliance, it would be hard to beat.
I have more amusing ICE cars for high days and holidays.
Yeah, my budget wont stretch to a Tesla, and cheap 2nd hand EVs like an old Nissan Leaf or Renault Effluent wont do 80 miles on a single charge. And none of the EVs that I could afford have a suitable boot for a big dog, and there arent any manuals. I suppose the only electric motor driven thing that fits it the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, but being 700kg heavier than the Fabia Estate, as well as much taller, I doubt itll be significantly cheaper to run on my commute, which is almost entirely A-roads and dual carridgeway, with almost no stopping.I have more amusing ICE cars for high days and holidays.
Anyway, thanks all for your suggestions! I suppose really what Im keen to hear is discussion on decent weekend sportscars that might tempt me away from my Subaru and into a diesel Skoda for my daily commute.
Its quite a pity actually that there arent any decent sportscars thatll do great MPG, if they made a diesel MR2 for example, that'd do nicely. I dont need an estate car everyday, but I do need one often enough to justify having one. The only diesel "sports" cars that spring to mind are quite large convertibles which are all based on coupes/saloons (the Audis and BMWs) and none of those are particularly appealing. I suppose the ND MX5 with its 1.5L turbo petrol engine, or the Fiat/Abarth 124 with the 1.4 turbo petrol are both probably quite light on fuel when they arent thrashed? But Id do well to get one of those for £7000, which is far too expensive. I could drive an awfully long way on £7000 worth of petrol!
Ive not tried, but I imagine Id be laughed out of the lot if I went to a second hand car dealership and asked to test drive a BMW Z4 3.0 or Porsche Boxster, so I unfortunately must resort to car magazine reviews and the opinions of people on internet forums...
LotsOfLaughs said:
hidetheelephants said:
Keep the Subaru, get a boot liner and have it converted to LPG.
A boot liner might do the trick, especially if I made it myself, so that it could be removed easilly etc. LPG isnt an option, itd cost thousands to have a system installed, Id loose the spare wheel, and I dont think anywhere near me sells it anymore either, and when they did it was 104.9p/L, and currently petrol is just under £1.30/L (although ripoff Rachel might soon change that)
The fact of the matter is 2 cars will always cost more than one unless the one is ludicrous on fuel!
If I were on a tight budget I'd keep the Subaru as you obviously love it, and then try and man-maths your way into a daily driver later on.
I'm unsure of your budget but let's say £10k for a BMW Z4 3.0 & a Skoda estate daily.
Both of these are at an age where they could bite you financially quickly with rubbish like DMF or DPF or any other TLA that modern manufacturers litter their cars with in the name of efficiency, comfort or the environment but actually force you to spend a fortune on them.
As said above the cost to change will buy you a lot of petrol. I'd stick to the Subaru, and as regards the dog you can always clean, but selling the Subaru may be something you regret.
If I were on a tight budget I'd keep the Subaru as you obviously love it, and then try and man-maths your way into a daily driver later on.
I'm unsure of your budget but let's say £10k for a BMW Z4 3.0 & a Skoda estate daily.
Both of these are at an age where they could bite you financially quickly with rubbish like DMF or DPF or any other TLA that modern manufacturers litter their cars with in the name of efficiency, comfort or the environment but actually force you to spend a fortune on them.
As said above the cost to change will buy you a lot of petrol. I'd stick to the Subaru, and as regards the dog you can always clean, but selling the Subaru may be something you regret.
I think the Skoda diesel makes sense for the economic daily commute, although an Octavia might be as good an option as a Fabia.
A 3 litre Z4 might have similar power to your Subaru, but will feel far more lively to drive based on my experience.
I ran two 3 litre manual BMWs for 6 months or so an E90 330i and a Z4Coupe with the same N52 engine, and while the 330i performed pretty well the Z4 just felt so much more alive and up for some fun!
A 3 litre Z4 might have similar power to your Subaru, but will feel far more lively to drive based on my experience.
I ran two 3 litre manual BMWs for 6 months or so an E90 330i and a Z4Coupe with the same N52 engine, and while the 330i performed pretty well the Z4 just felt so much more alive and up for some fun!
hidetheelephants said:
Given the mileage you're doing buying a bulk autogas tank would pay for itself in about 3 years and once you've got it you may find that you acquire autogas 'friends' who will help pay it off quicker.
The autogas tank, and the LPG conversion costs, paid in 3 years? Or just the tank? Im also not sure about the logistics of that, I presume such a tank has to be kept outside, on a concrete base, at least a certain distance from any buildings, etc?Stick Legs said:
The fact of the matter is 2 cars will always cost more than one unless the one is ludicrous on fuel!
If I were on a tight budget I'd keep the Subaru as you obviously love it, and then try and man-maths your way into a daily driver later on.
I'm unsure of your budget but let's say £10k for a BMW Z4 3.0 & a Skoda estate daily.
Both of these are at an age where they could bite you financially quickly with rubbish like DMF or DPF or any other TLA that modern manufacturers litter their cars with in the name of efficiency, comfort or the environment but actually force you to spend a fortune on them.
As said above the cost to change will buy you a lot of petrol. I'd stick to the Subaru, and as regards the dog you can always clean, but selling the Subaru may be something you regret.
I suppose that depends on what you call "ludicrous", I had a 3.9L V8 Discovery, that got 14mpg on average, and that really was daft. If I were on a tight budget I'd keep the Subaru as you obviously love it, and then try and man-maths your way into a daily driver later on.
I'm unsure of your budget but let's say £10k for a BMW Z4 3.0 & a Skoda estate daily.
Both of these are at an age where they could bite you financially quickly with rubbish like DMF or DPF or any other TLA that modern manufacturers litter their cars with in the name of efficiency, comfort or the environment but actually force you to spend a fortune on them.
As said above the cost to change will buy you a lot of petrol. I'd stick to the Subaru, and as regards the dog you can always clean, but selling the Subaru may be something you regret.
My budget isnt 10k, its probably more like 6k, depending on how much Id get for my Subaru if I sold it. An OK BMW Z4 can be had for less than £3000 these days, and a diesel Skoda for about half that. £1500 for tax and insurance for both of those is probably a bit optimistic, so Id buy the Skoda, then save up for the Z4. The Fabia with the 1.9 TDI doesnt have a DPF or a DMF, I dont think, but I agree plenty of stuff could go wrong with either car. I do most servicing and repairs myself, so long as it doesnt need any specialist tools. The German roadsters in particular do raise some concern, just as an example, BMWs VANOS and my Subarus AVCS system both do the same thing, but the "common fault" with the system on the Subaru is a solenoid, which costs beer money for a 2nd hand replacement and requires just a single 10mm bolt to change. Fixing the VANOS on a BMW isnt a driveway DIY job, from what I gather, and neither is the IMS bearing on a Boxster, etc.
Mr Tidy said:
I think the Skoda diesel makes sense for the economic daily commute, although an Octavia might be as good an option as a Fabia.
A 3 litre Z4 might have similar power to your Subaru, but will feel far more lively to drive based on my experience.
I ran two 3 litre manual BMWs for 6 months or so an E90 330i and a Z4Coupe with the same N52 engine, and while the 330i performed pretty well the Z4 just felt so much more alive and up for some fun!
Yes, Id look at an Octavia, but really I see no real benefits, unless the VRS TDI is a particularly thrilling machine?A 3 litre Z4 might have similar power to your Subaru, but will feel far more lively to drive based on my experience.
I ran two 3 litre manual BMWs for 6 months or so an E90 330i and a Z4Coupe with the same N52 engine, and while the 330i performed pretty well the Z4 just felt so much more alive and up for some fun!
The Z4 sounds like fun, and thats really what Im after. Theres a 2.5L one for sale near me right now for £1300, open to offers, running with MoT, so thats rather tempting. Is there much of a difference in fun between he 2.5s and 3.0s? Or is there little point in me testing a 2.5 because Ill just find it a tad slow?
Also, on the Z3 vs Z4 debate, the Z3 is a tad lighter and some have LSDs, so is that the most fun choice? Personally I think the Z4 is the much "nicer" car, I think its one of the few cars that looks much better in the flesh than it does in pictures.
I think that whats actually missing is a compelling enough reason to sell my Legacy, and there just isnt one, unless they pump up the VED and the fuel prices substantially.
Interesting read, more so your thoughts on the Legacy as it's a car that has always been there, lurking in the back ground for me but one I've yet to commit to for a variety of reasons. They do seem to tick many boxes as far as relatively cheap, solid, under the radar practical estates go but also seem to be well regarded for their performance and handling. Good to hear your thoughts on it from an pretty no holds barred stance.
I'm not in your position, bit of the opposite... I have an elderly diesel estate, proper shed spec that has been a bit of a jack of all trades car over the years - it's done family duties, it's done a 20k a year commute and latterly it's lived its life as a second car, to be there as and when needed as it's low value / costs mean it's worth it as a back up. It's an 07 plate V50 diesel - but hear me out, it actually drives ok (Focus derived) and it's mapped so moves along ok and it's currently showing 52mpg average. Hasn't failed me in 7yrs / 80,000 miles.
But I find myself thinking if it's sat on the drive, taxed, insured and the like and does minimal miles (sub 1000 miles last year) then maybe I should replace it with something more fun, interesting but that can still pick up the baton and run... and hence I keep finding myself back looking at a Legacy before the fear of the unknown kicks in and I scare myself with rust woes. What relevance is this to your position, I guess I also looked at a two car option, ie keep the V50 for general abuse / miles (akin to the aforementioned Fabia) and then have something "nicer" for this days you want to enjoy a car, polish it, drive it with enthusiasm etc etc.
Ultimately, I think at this price point the old adage that the cheapest option is the car you have may ring true. You could buy a diesel estate but the buying, taxing, insuring, running costs would go a long way in keeping the Legacy in fuel and on the road and ok, so it'd get a bit more wear and tear but at least you'd be enjoying it daily. Or, conversely perhaps not having to drive something of that ilk day in, day out would in turn make the times when you do drive it that bit more special? This obviously only works if you have storage as a nice car sat out in winter for extended periods isn't that pleasant and that's when issues can start to materialise.
I, like you have a craving for something "fast" but I think as time goes on and the roads and the general driving demographic changes and not necessarily for the better I've started to realise that absolute power / speed is perhaps not a good thing and has ha been alluded to earlier, maybe something a bit more driving focussed and fun albeit at lower speeds would be better... but is that not what the Legacy is pretty good at? And the dog / bike / mates / tip run stuff can come too. It's a tricky one to get right... two cars on the opposing ends of the scale that each fulfill their specific brief vary well or one, do it all car.
I'm not in your position, bit of the opposite... I have an elderly diesel estate, proper shed spec that has been a bit of a jack of all trades car over the years - it's done family duties, it's done a 20k a year commute and latterly it's lived its life as a second car, to be there as and when needed as it's low value / costs mean it's worth it as a back up. It's an 07 plate V50 diesel - but hear me out, it actually drives ok (Focus derived) and it's mapped so moves along ok and it's currently showing 52mpg average. Hasn't failed me in 7yrs / 80,000 miles.
But I find myself thinking if it's sat on the drive, taxed, insured and the like and does minimal miles (sub 1000 miles last year) then maybe I should replace it with something more fun, interesting but that can still pick up the baton and run... and hence I keep finding myself back looking at a Legacy before the fear of the unknown kicks in and I scare myself with rust woes. What relevance is this to your position, I guess I also looked at a two car option, ie keep the V50 for general abuse / miles (akin to the aforementioned Fabia) and then have something "nicer" for this days you want to enjoy a car, polish it, drive it with enthusiasm etc etc.
Ultimately, I think at this price point the old adage that the cheapest option is the car you have may ring true. You could buy a diesel estate but the buying, taxing, insuring, running costs would go a long way in keeping the Legacy in fuel and on the road and ok, so it'd get a bit more wear and tear but at least you'd be enjoying it daily. Or, conversely perhaps not having to drive something of that ilk day in, day out would in turn make the times when you do drive it that bit more special? This obviously only works if you have storage as a nice car sat out in winter for extended periods isn't that pleasant and that's when issues can start to materialise.
I, like you have a craving for something "fast" but I think as time goes on and the roads and the general driving demographic changes and not necessarily for the better I've started to realise that absolute power / speed is perhaps not a good thing and has ha been alluded to earlier, maybe something a bit more driving focussed and fun albeit at lower speeds would be better... but is that not what the Legacy is pretty good at? And the dog / bike / mates / tip run stuff can come too. It's a tricky one to get right... two cars on the opposing ends of the scale that each fulfill their specific brief vary well or one, do it all car.
I just sold my 57 reg Octavia VRS TDi (H/B), 109k for £2k, although a hatchback the boot is enormous and plenty of room for your 4-legged friend, you could of course keep the rear seats down as well, especially as you said that you don't use them much.
I'd prefer to go Octavia VRS (170bhp) than a 1.9 Fabia estate and then keep the Subaru as your special car, you may look to change it at some point if it isn't getting the use.
I'd prefer to go Octavia VRS (170bhp) than a 1.9 Fabia estate and then keep the Subaru as your special car, you may look to change it at some point if it isn't getting the use.
LotsOfLaughs said:
The Z4 sounds like fun, and thats really what Im after. Theres a 2.5L one for sale near me right now for £1300, open to offers, running with MoT, so thats rather tempting. Is there much of a difference in fun between he 2.5s and 3.0s? Or is there little point in me testing a 2.5 because Ill just find it a tad slow?
Also, on the Z3 vs Z4 debate, the Z3 is a tad lighter and some have LSDs, so is that the most fun choice? Personally I think the Z4 is the much "nicer" car, I think its one of the few cars that looks much better in the flesh than it does in pictures.
I think that whats actually missing is a compelling enough reason to sell my Legacy, and there just isnt one, unless they pump up the VED and the fuel prices substantially.
That's probably the biggest issue then!Also, on the Z3 vs Z4 debate, the Z3 is a tad lighter and some have LSDs, so is that the most fun choice? Personally I think the Z4 is the much "nicer" car, I think its one of the few cars that looks much better in the flesh than it does in pictures.
I think that whats actually missing is a compelling enough reason to sell my Legacy, and there just isnt one, unless they pump up the VED and the fuel prices substantially.
In the event you get over that hurdle, there is quite a difference between the 2.5 and 3 litre pre-facelift Z4s. It's 192bhp v 231bhp. And if it makes a difference the 3 litres all have a 6 speed gearbox and electric seat adjustment with driver's memory.
Having said that a 2.5 litre should still perform pretty well as I had the same engine in an E46 325ti and it never felt sluggish.
I've never driven a Z3 but by all accounts the Z4s drive much better, even if they don't have an LSD.
Davie said:
Interesting read, more so your thoughts on the Legacy as it's a car that has always been there, lurking in the back ground for me but one I've yet to commit to for a variety of reasons. They do seem to tick many boxes as far as relatively cheap, solid, under the radar practical estates go but also seem to be well regarded for their performance and handling. Good to hear your thoughts on it from an pretty no holds barred stance.
I'm not in your position, bit of the opposite... I have an elderly diesel estate, proper shed spec that has been a bit of a jack of all trades car over the years - it's done family duties, it's done a 20k a year commute and latterly it's lived its life as a second car, to be there as and when needed as it's low value / costs mean it's worth it as a back up. It's an 07 plate V50 diesel - but hear me out, it actually drives ok (Focus derived) and it's mapped so moves along ok and it's currently showing 52mpg average. Hasn't failed me in 7yrs / 80,000 miles.
But I find myself thinking if it's sat on the drive, taxed, insured and the like and does minimal miles (sub 1000 miles last year) then maybe I should replace it with something more fun, interesting but that can still pick up the baton and run... and hence I keep finding myself back looking at a Legacy before the fear of the unknown kicks in and I scare myself with rust woes. What relevance is this to your position, I guess I also looked at a two car option, ie keep the V50 for general abuse / miles (akin to the aforementioned Fabia) and then have something "nicer" for this days you want to enjoy a car, polish it, drive it with enthusiasm etc etc.
Ultimately, I think at this price point the old adage that the cheapest option is the car you have may ring true. You could buy a diesel estate but the buying, taxing, insuring, running costs would go a long way in keeping the Legacy in fuel and on the road and ok, so it'd get a bit more wear and tear but at least you'd be enjoying it daily. Or, conversely perhaps not having to drive something of that ilk day in, day out would in turn make the times when you do drive it that bit more special? This obviously only works if you have storage as a nice car sat out in winter for extended periods isn't that pleasant and that's when issues can start to materialise.
I, like you have a craving for something "fast" but I think as time goes on and the roads and the general driving demographic changes and not necessarily for the better I've started to realise that absolute power / speed is perhaps not a good thing and has ha been alluded to earlier, maybe something a bit more driving focussed and fun albeit at lower speeds would be better... but is that not what the Legacy is pretty good at? And the dog / bike / mates / tip run stuff can come too. It's a tricky one to get right... two cars on the opposing ends of the scale that each fulfill their specific brief vary well or one, do it all car.
Youve summed it up pretty well there. I've not got any indoor space to keep anything, so Itd have to live outside, which is another reason Im questioning of a convertible is a great idea. I dont see the point of having a coupe or saloon over an estate, looks have never been a priority in car selection for me. Ive never had a convertible, and the idea of an open top is tempting, although Im sure the first time a bird craps on my leg as Im driving along Ill change my mind! Of course, the massive sunroof in my Legacy is almost the same, Ive not worked it out but I doubt the roof on an MX5 RF is much bigger. Funnily enough, I was contemplating replacing the glass with plastic, sealing it in place and removing the motor etc, someone on another forum reckons Id shave 30kg off the weight of the car, and thats all in the roof! "Move over, carbon fiber roofed M3!" - But because its my only car, the risk of such a modification causing leaks, or making a right mess of the rooflining, etc, its just not worth the 30kg Id save. I'm not in your position, bit of the opposite... I have an elderly diesel estate, proper shed spec that has been a bit of a jack of all trades car over the years - it's done family duties, it's done a 20k a year commute and latterly it's lived its life as a second car, to be there as and when needed as it's low value / costs mean it's worth it as a back up. It's an 07 plate V50 diesel - but hear me out, it actually drives ok (Focus derived) and it's mapped so moves along ok and it's currently showing 52mpg average. Hasn't failed me in 7yrs / 80,000 miles.
But I find myself thinking if it's sat on the drive, taxed, insured and the like and does minimal miles (sub 1000 miles last year) then maybe I should replace it with something more fun, interesting but that can still pick up the baton and run... and hence I keep finding myself back looking at a Legacy before the fear of the unknown kicks in and I scare myself with rust woes. What relevance is this to your position, I guess I also looked at a two car option, ie keep the V50 for general abuse / miles (akin to the aforementioned Fabia) and then have something "nicer" for this days you want to enjoy a car, polish it, drive it with enthusiasm etc etc.
Ultimately, I think at this price point the old adage that the cheapest option is the car you have may ring true. You could buy a diesel estate but the buying, taxing, insuring, running costs would go a long way in keeping the Legacy in fuel and on the road and ok, so it'd get a bit more wear and tear but at least you'd be enjoying it daily. Or, conversely perhaps not having to drive something of that ilk day in, day out would in turn make the times when you do drive it that bit more special? This obviously only works if you have storage as a nice car sat out in winter for extended periods isn't that pleasant and that's when issues can start to materialise.
I, like you have a craving for something "fast" but I think as time goes on and the roads and the general driving demographic changes and not necessarily for the better I've started to realise that absolute power / speed is perhaps not a good thing and has ha been alluded to earlier, maybe something a bit more driving focussed and fun albeit at lower speeds would be better... but is that not what the Legacy is pretty good at? And the dog / bike / mates / tip run stuff can come too. It's a tricky one to get right... two cars on the opposing ends of the scale that each fulfill their specific brief vary well or one, do it all car.
66HFM said:
I just sold my 57 reg Octavia VRS TDi (H/B), 109k for £2k, although a hatchback the boot is enormous and plenty of room for your 4-legged friend, you could of course keep the rear seats down as well, especially as you said that you don't use them much.
I'd prefer to go Octavia VRS (170bhp) than a 1.9 Fabia estate and then keep the Subaru as your special car, you may look to change it at some point if it isn't getting the use.
I had an Octavia Scout once, the 2.0TDI, and as a car to just drive around in it was excellent. As an offroader it was useless, and as a drivers car it was so thoroughly disappointing Ive vowed to never buy another Haldex car again. The FWD version is almost certainly much better, Ive driven Golfs and Passats of a similar age and theyre much much better, and would still get stuck in the field. I'd prefer to go Octavia VRS (170bhp) than a 1.9 Fabia estate and then keep the Subaru as your special car, you may look to change it at some point if it isn't getting the use.
Ive no objection to an Octavia VRS, but I suspect the insurance company might. It also seems a bit daft to have two sporty estates, either the VRS is sporty enough to replace the Legacy, or its not sporty enough to bother with over a normal version. (Alternatively, the Subaru isnt sufficiently more sporty than the Octavia, and the Octavia is a better estate car, and so the Subaru should be replaced with something more sporty)
Mr Tidy said:
That's probably the biggest issue then!
In the event you get over that hurdle, there is quite a difference between the 2.5 and 3 litre pre-facelift Z4s. It's 192bhp v 231bhp. And if it makes a difference the 3 litres all have a 6 speed gearbox and electric seat adjustment with driver's memory.
Having said that a 2.5 litre should still perform pretty well as I had the same engine in an E46 325ti and it never felt sluggish.
I've never driven a Z3 but by all accounts the Z4s drive much better, even if they don't have an LSD.
Thanks, an extra 40hp and an extra gear do make a difference, electric seats I couldnt give a monkeys about, since Im the only one who'll ever drive it. I did stick my Dad on the insurance for my Legacy last year, but he never drove it, wasnt interested, he likes his 1.6tdi Golf. I evidently did not get the petrolhead gene from him.In the event you get over that hurdle, there is quite a difference between the 2.5 and 3 litre pre-facelift Z4s. It's 192bhp v 231bhp. And if it makes a difference the 3 litres all have a 6 speed gearbox and electric seat adjustment with driver's memory.
Having said that a 2.5 litre should still perform pretty well as I had the same engine in an E46 325ti and it never felt sluggish.
I've never driven a Z3 but by all accounts the Z4s drive much better, even if they don't have an LSD.
Yeah, I dont think the proposition of a "not sluggish" BMW is going to tempt me from my Legacy, its got to be quite special. Perhaps a Z4 3.0 with the diff from a Z3 (if theyre compatable, I suspect not, since the Z3 had an E30 rear end?) and perhaps a tad more power and a tad less weight might be special enough, or a TVR 350i, but for my budget Id have to scrape every penny together to buy the cheapest one I can find, and thats a recipe for disaster.
It seems to be coming down rather strongly in favour of just keeping the Subaru then?
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