Old Fiat 500 transformobile - good idea?

Old Fiat 500 transformobile - good idea?

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Discussion

skilly1

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

202 months

Saturday 19th October
quotequote all
I am very tempted to buy one in good condition. I like the idea of pootling around on a sunny day, driving to work (30mins through the Cotswolds).

I have never driven one, does this sound like a dream that will become terrible in reality!

Any advice greatly appreciated, I think I want the full convertible, not the standard sun roof - but will probably pay a £5k premium for it.

I have a Yaris GR as a daily for my speed fix!

DonkeyApple

59,021 posts

176 months

Saturday 19th October
quotequote all
Seems a perfectly stupid idea. Brilliant for those commuting days when you fancy escaping basic reality. Utterly gutless so the more hilly parts of the Cotswolds might be interesting when the executive thrusters are out and about and running late because despite their enormous time piece they either haven't the strength to raise it i to view or they never knew their father so no one ever taught them how the hands work. biggrin

Buy well and it really won't cost anything.

mac96

4,424 posts

150 months

Saturday 19th October
quotequote all
I used to know a guy who commuted in one on the A3 from Godalming to Putney every day with other traffic passing at 80mph, so it is not impossible. I wouldn't chose one as a commuter though unless entirely within an urban 20/30mph zone.

skilly1

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

202 months

Saturday 19th October
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Seems a perfectly stupid idea. Brilliant for those commuting days when you fancy escaping basic reality. Utterly gutless so the more hilly parts of the Cotswolds might be interesting when the executive thrusters are out and about and running late because despite their enormous time piece they either haven't the strength to raise it i to view or they never knew their father so no one ever taught them how the hands work. biggrin

Buy well and it really won't cost anything.
That’s what I hoping!

Huzzah

27,521 posts

190 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
skilly1 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Seems a perfectly stupid idea. Brilliant for those commuting days when you fancy escaping basic reality. Utterly gutless so the more hilly parts of the Cotswolds might be interesting when the executive thrusters are out and about and running late because despite their enormous time piece they either haven't the strength to raise it i to view or they never knew their father so no one ever taught them how the hands work. biggrin

Buy well and it really won't cost anything.
That’s what I hoping!
At times, if you squint a bit, th3 Cotswolds feel a bit like rural France or Italy ( but with more traffic) An elderly Fiat, Renault or Citroen sound ideal. DO IT. driving

Louis Balfour

27,677 posts

229 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
skilly1 said:
I am very tempted to buy one in good condition. I like the idea of pootling around on a sunny day, driving to work (30mins through the Cotswolds).

I have never driven one, does this sound like a dream that will become terrible in reality!

Any advice greatly appreciated, I think I want the full convertible, not the standard sun roof - but will probably pay a £5k premium for it.

I have a Yaris GR as a daily for my speed fix!
They are very cute. But you've seen the price of them, have you?

They are a small, basic, car that has achieved legendary status and they are priced accordingly. There is a huge premium to be paid for legend.

For me there is also the matter that, forty years ago, your idea would have been cool as.... Today, it may be a bit cliché and a definitely lot camp.

And that, probably, is the nub of it. Having a small, CHEAP, uncool car and bombing about in it is as cool. I was reminded of this when I couldn't pass an erratically driven Panda 4x4 on Friday. The driver was oblivious to all around her as she hogged lane three of the M67, but she made me smile because of the cut of her jib. If she had been in twenty grand's worth of Trasformabile, she would just have appeared an annoying fashionista.

So, like your idea. But choose a different car. Unless you're planning to start wearing your clothes a bit too tight, a baker boy cap in an interesting fabric and a jauntily applied neck scarf.














Decky_Q

1,654 posts

184 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
I have a 650cc fiat. They keep up with normal city traffic fine but 50mph is the top comfortable speed. I wouldnt commute in it but I enjoy driving when arrival time isnt a factor.

Huzzah

27,521 posts

190 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
Louis Balfour said:
They are very cute. But you've seen the price of them, have you?

They are a small, basic, car that has achieved legendary status and they are priced accordingly. There is a huge premium to be paid for legend.

For me there is also the matter that, forty years ago, your idea would have been cool as.... Today, it may be a bit cliché and a definitely lot camp.

And that, probably, is the nub of it. Having a small, CHEAP, uncool car and bombing about in it is as cool. I was reminded of this when I couldn't pass an erratically driven Panda 4x4 on Friday. The driver was oblivious to all around her as she hogged lane three of the M67, but she made me smile because of the cut of her jib. If she had been in twenty grand's worth of Trasformabile, she would just have appeared an annoying fashionista.




So, like your idea. But choose a different car. Unless you're planning to start wearing your clothes a bit too tight, a baker boy cap in an interesting fabric and a jauntily applied neck scarf.


If you're trying to be cool it's rather missing the point.

DonkeyApple

59,021 posts

176 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
Huzzah said:
At times, if you squint a bit, th3 Cotswolds feel a bit like rural France or Italy ( but with more traffic) An elderly Fiat, Renault or Citroen sound ideal. DO IT. driving
And since lockdown it has filled up with senile drug abusers wandering down the middle of the road at 20mph so even more like rural France or Italy now. biggrin

DonkeyApple

59,021 posts

176 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
Louis Balfour said:
They are very cute. But you've seen the price of them, have you?

They are a small, basic, car that has achieved legendary status and they are priced accordingly. There is a huge premium to be paid for legend.

For me there is also the matter that, forty years ago, your idea would have been cool as.... Today, it may be a bit cliché and a definitely lot camp.

And that, probably, is the nub of it. Having a small, CHEAP, uncool car and bombing about in it is as cool. I was reminded of this when I couldn't pass an erratically driven Panda 4x4 on Friday. The driver was oblivious to all around her as she hogged lane three of the M67, but she made me smile because of the cut of her jib. If she had been in twenty grand's worth of Trasformabile, she would just have appeared an annoying fashionista.

So, like your idea. But choose a different car. Unless you're planning to start wearing your clothes a bit too tight, a baker boy cap in an interesting fabric and a jauntily applied neck scarf.
It's going to depend where one lives. That urban fashion thing and the entire generational cliche hasn't really reached the Cotswolds in the way that it has infested many U.K. towns and cities.

Round here people just have old cars that they use but without it being some social statement or for social content. Rather than being victims of a broken society they're still generally just old fashioned people who buy and use what tickles their fancy.

It's also a destination for other owners around the U.K. who have their cars for themselves rather than as part of a uniform to desperately try and fit in to a chosen regimented society, so you'll see plenty of old cars toddling around and to be honest no one bats an eyelid as no one is making a fashion statement.

As for the cost. The running costs are negligible and while there are high purchase costs these are obviously old cars not new so their values are pegged to different metrics and if you buy intelligently then the chances are ownership won't cost you much of anything.



Edited by DonkeyApple on Sunday 20th October 10:47

skilly1

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

202 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
I’m certainly not trying to be hipster cool, kids will be in the back at weekends! Also the commute will only be on glorious sunny days (10 times a year probably!)

I live in just on outskirts of cheltenham so popping into shops etc will be fun.

I guess they are reassuringly expensive - I will be able to sell it on after a couple of year and not lose much money.

lancslad58

1,105 posts

15 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
One of the stewards at Brooklands museum drives the estate verions, 500 Giardinera station wagon, if you want a bit more space.






DonkeyApple

59,021 posts

176 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
said:
I’m certainly not trying to be hipster cool, kids will be in the back at weekends! Also the commute will only be on glorious sunny days (10 times a year probably!)

I guess they are reassuringly expensive - I will be able to sell it on after a couple of year and not lose much money.
It's just exactly what thousands of people across the U.K. do and have always done. Silly, impractical car tucked away in the corner of the garage that isn't costing money sitting there unused and then when the mood strikes they don't pick the keys to the practical, comfortable, reliable modern family wagon as they do for the 350 other days of the year but instead, take the keys to the impractical, uncomfortable, unsafe, unreliable car and completely revel in the enormous mental freedom it delivers in an instant, the memories that it creates and also the pleasure even when not using it but just knowing that it's there and not really costing any money at all to be there.

It's a cathartic thing rather than being a fashion statement for a bloke who wears his mother's trousers, the corner shop owner's cardigan and lives his sister's lifestyle.

When I was a child, my father had a collection of rather nice cars, something for each occasion really but of all the cars from new to old it was an unloved by society, Series4 Lotus 7 that was his go to car for those 10 days a year when opportunity and motive conspired to just use something really rather silly. That was a car that cost nothing to just sit there until it was wanted.

It was also the car that I learned to drive with at 14 as it was the perfect size for a child. biggrin

For me, I always fancied a VW Thing as a pub run/random commute car. On the list it would then be a Cinquecento, 2CV, a Gordini 5 or Sisley Panda. But I'm actually contemplating electrifying something as it can then sit there for those 350 days being a house battery and arbitraging day rates so might opt for something slightly larger.

Louis Balfour

27,677 posts

229 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
skilly1 said:
I guess they are reassuringly expensive - I will be able to sell it on after a couple of year and not lose much money.
I would not depend upon that, personally.

There has been an asset bubble in the past few years. It has been fuelled by low cost of money and COVID stimuli. It is now starting to unwind due to the increased cost of money and economic environment.

I am seeing it across a number of asset classes. Sellers of many such assets, who are not forced, are holding out for prices that they are simply not going to achieve anymore. I'd be surprised if your target car doesn't fall squarely into this category.

That is not of course a reason not to do it. But an assumption that it is going to be a low-cost bit of fun may be false. You need to go into it prepared to lose money. Or, to take another view, that your enjoyment of bombing around the Cotswolds in a classic 500 isn't FOC.









DonkeyApple

59,021 posts

176 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
Louis Balfour said:
I would not depend upon that, personally.

There has been an asset bubble in the past few years. It has been fuelled by low cost of money and COVID stimuli. It is now starting to unwind due to the increased cost of money and economic environment.

I am seeing it across a number of asset classes. Sellers of many such assets, who are not forced, are holding out for prices that they are simply not going to achieve anymore. I'd be surprised if your target car doesn't fall squarely into this category.

That is not of course a reason not to do it. But an assumption that it is going to be a low-cost bit of fun may be false. You need to go into it prepared to lose money. Or, to take another view, that your enjoyment of bombing around the Cotswolds in a classic 500 isn't FOC.
Yup. Always CaR with old cars. And we are certainly seeing the assets that got ramped up by the free money era and the Covid cash bubble coming back down to Earth. Pretty much anything that was pitched in social media as some kind of new asset class for thick and greedy people is now fading away as the monkey money taps run dry.

The classic car market is unwinding in places but you can see it's generally where certain models were pitched as get rich quick schemes for amplifying freshly printed money or buying ones way into a club. Peasant wagons tended to escape a lot of that as they were too small to be shouty and did nothing at all to announce arrival let alone the extreme success and stardom of the tool behind the wheel.

The greater risk for stuff like this is the Boomer Die Off and when that properly gets underway. That event will deliver a constant supply of very highly priced assets that need to be bought by a smaller number of you her people who have less money to buy them and less money to store them. These same future owners are also about to spend at least the next 5 years and arguably longer being asset taxed more and more heavily meaning they'll have even less purchasing power.

So one can expect classic cars to get rebased as they shift from one generation to the next. But we can also make some fair guesses as to which ones will do the biggest moves. Will it be the small, easy to store and easy to afford little Cinquecento that also won't inspire hate from the proletariat when in use or will it be the larger, much more expensive stuff that is already at prices that the current owners couldn't afford let alone the next and which are poster cars for the rising number of people who are desperate for something to vent their self loathing at now it is deemed wrong to use women, non whites and people in different football shirts?

If I had to bet then I'd wager a 500 bought intelligently (buyers market now money has a value and the most prolific chattel monkeys have gone home) will hold up better than say an E Type over the next decade.

The key is to not go buying the ones that everyone says is the one to have. Get the normal one that the poor people have to make do with and pay the right price. It's not a trophy car for trying to get photographed at Soho wehouse turning up in but just a basic machine to use for oneself as and when the desire to escape reality takes you.

A 500L is basically £10k. That's potentially a big family holiday for the sort of person who has £10k sitting there which isn't going to be missed. Converting it into an old car opposed to spending it on a one off lifestyle event will generate potentially more family memories, bring more pleasure and will still have some value, possibly even more than was paid.

Buy well, asking prices today are very much just an irrelevant number based on the vendor's dreams and dreams aren't reality. There will be lots of turd cars and shyster vendors out there so the key is to take one's time learning the particular market. Assume most will be rotten where you can't see and assume most vendors are selling up because it's fked and then assume the good vendors with the good cars know that the crap is now a drag on prices. And when you find a good one just make sure that you're happy to walk away if your price isn't met. It's your price, your money, it's a buyer's market and these were built in vast numbers and are not remotely rare.

Personally, if it were me, I'd find one of the big dealers down in Italy and make the finding of the car part of the fun. I'd be looming for one that looks ratty on the outside but has no rust and I'd then have the very basic mechanicals all sorted and spend my money on that and then take a few days to drive it back with a mate or the children. Once home I'd steam clean the underside and spray with diluted waxoyl everywhere needed and aim to do that job every year.

Louis Balfour

27,677 posts

229 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
donkeyaplple said:
If I had to bet then I'd wager a 500 bought intelligently (buyers market now money has a value and the most prolific chattel monkeys have gone home) will hold up better than say an E Type over the next decade.
I think its too early. There are still too few forced sellers. I'd say this will mean that anything priced correctly will not be the pick of the bunch.

As for Italy: They are a nation of opportunists and they will know what a ratty 500 is worth, when they find it in Uncle Luigi's barn. I think the chances of getting a deal over there is slim. But the pretence of searching for one, whilst really just going there to eat and drink, is a compelling idea.





DonkeyApple

59,021 posts

176 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
Louis Balfour said:
I think its too early. There are still too few forced sellers. I'd say this will mean that anything priced correctly will not be the pick of the bunch.

As for Italy: They are a nation of opportunists and they will know what a ratty 500 is worth, when they find it in Uncle Luigi's barn. I think the chances of getting a deal over there is slim. But the pretence of searching for one, whilst really just going there to eat and drink, is a compelling idea.
The trips would be essential education. biggrin

I wouldn't waste time travelling around to single vehicles. There are a fair few dealers who just have a whole load in stock. They key is to not tell them your coming so they have no time to change the stickers.

Where my wife is from you can still buy a 500 without the collectors premium.

Louis Balfour

27,677 posts

229 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Louis Balfour said:
I think its too early. There are still too few forced sellers. I'd say this will mean that anything priced correctly will not be the pick of the bunch.

As for Italy: They are a nation of opportunists and they will know what a ratty 500 is worth, when they find it in Uncle Luigi's barn. I think the chances of getting a deal over there is slim. But the pretence of searching for one, whilst really just going there to eat and drink, is a compelling idea.
The trips would be essential education. biggrin

I wouldn't waste time travelling around to single vehicles. There are a fair few dealers who just have a whole load in stock. They key is to not tell them your coming so they have no time to change the stickers.

Where my wife is from you can still buy a 500 without the collectors premium.
Do I recall that she is Sicilian?

I am sure if you’ve local knowledge, better still a local presence, it would help.


DonkeyApple

59,021 posts

176 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
Louis Balfour said:
Do I recall that she is Sicilian?

I am sure if you’ve local knowledge, better still a local presence, it would help.
Yup. Buying anything in Sicily is fraught with risk but on the mainland, having a Sicilian to carry out the negotiations and ensure the work that was agreed is actually done helps curb the most enthusiastic nature of the Italian used car vendor. biggrin

Huzzah

27,521 posts

190 months

Sunday 20th October
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
said:
I’m certainly not trying to be hipster cool, kids will be in the back at weekends! Also the commute will only be on glorious sunny days (10 times a year probably!)

I guess they are reassuringly expensive - I will be able to sell it on after a couple of year and not lose much money.
It's just exactly what thousands of people across the U.K. do and have always done. Silly, impractical car tucked away in the corner of the garage that isn't costing money sitting there unused and then when the mood strikes they don't pick the keys to the practical, comfortable, reliable modern family wagon as they do for the 350 other days of the year but instead, take the keys to the impractical, uncomfortable, unsafe, unreliable car and completely revel in the enormous mental freedom it delivers in an instant, the memories that it creates and also the pleasure even when not using it but just knowing that it's there and not really costing any money at all to be there.

It's a cathartic thing rather than being a fashion statement for a bloke who wears his mother's trousers, the corner shop owner's cardigan and lives his sister's lifestyle.

When I was a child, my father had a collection of rather nice cars, something for each occasion really but of all the cars from new to old it was an unloved by society, Series4 Lotus 7 that was his go to car for those 10 days a year when opportunity and motive conspired to just use something really rather silly. That was a car that cost nothing to just sit there until it was wanted.

It was also the car that I learned to drive with at 14 as it was the perfect size for a child. biggrin

For me, I always fancied a VW Thing as a pub run/random commute car. On the list it would then be a Cinquecento, 2CV, a Gordini 5 or Sisley Panda. But I'm actually contemplating electrifying something as it can then sit there for those 350 days being a house battery and arbitraging day rates so might opt for something slightly larger.
An elderly faded 2CV potters around locally, no-one thinks "trying to be hipster cool". Just a daily with an equally dishevelled driver.