Mod my f56 JCW or sell and buy E46 M3?
Discussion
I'll keep this short.
Love my F56 JCW, and it's good but could definitely be improved. Thinking of coilovers, light wheels, LSD, map to 300 bhp. Just about to spend the money on the first two items.
However, just been listening to Chris Harris enthuse about the M3.
For the money I might spend on the mini I could sell and get an M3 for about 15k.
The mini probably be worth a lot less in a few years, BMW might / will appreciate.
Mini lower running costs but huge fun when modded.
BMW presumably much more expensive to run but probably quite a special car.
Don't daily drive it, just a weekend / occasional use car.
Thoughts?
Love my F56 JCW, and it's good but could definitely be improved. Thinking of coilovers, light wheels, LSD, map to 300 bhp. Just about to spend the money on the first two items.
However, just been listening to Chris Harris enthuse about the M3.
For the money I might spend on the mini I could sell and get an M3 for about 15k.
The mini probably be worth a lot less in a few years, BMW might / will appreciate.
Mini lower running costs but huge fun when modded.
BMW presumably much more expensive to run but probably quite a special car.
Don't daily drive it, just a weekend / occasional use car.
Thoughts?
Broadly speaking it makes more sense to buy a better car than to modify the one you have.
The better car will have been developed by its maker with big-company budgets and facilities to be more capable overall, whereas in making spot upgrades to a cheaper car, you're still limited by the rest of the car and its inherently more compromised architecture.
Partly in reflection of this, as you say money spent on mods is nearly always money gone, whereas money spent on a better car is likely to at least partly come back in future.
The case for keeping and modifying the Mini is if you have a real preference for a smaller FF car, and there's nothing better to your liking so you want to make it the best it can be. The larger, heavier, naturally aspirated, FR E46 is obviously a different kind of car; some people will prefer that, some will prefer the Mini.
The other thing is that an E46 is obviously a much older car; this will be evident in various ways both good and bad. There is probably a higher risk of it breaking down, for one thing.
Overall, I'd default to buying an E46 M3, unless you have a strong preference for the Mini as a basic platform.
The better car will have been developed by its maker with big-company budgets and facilities to be more capable overall, whereas in making spot upgrades to a cheaper car, you're still limited by the rest of the car and its inherently more compromised architecture.
Partly in reflection of this, as you say money spent on mods is nearly always money gone, whereas money spent on a better car is likely to at least partly come back in future.
The case for keeping and modifying the Mini is if you have a real preference for a smaller FF car, and there's nothing better to your liking so you want to make it the best it can be. The larger, heavier, naturally aspirated, FR E46 is obviously a different kind of car; some people will prefer that, some will prefer the Mini.
The other thing is that an E46 is obviously a much older car; this will be evident in various ways both good and bad. There is probably a higher risk of it breaking down, for one thing.
Overall, I'd default to buying an E46 M3, unless you have a strong preference for the Mini as a basic platform.
As you say the Mini is a weekend car and not a daily i'd definitely buy the E46 M3 instead, will hold it's value if not appreciate and for me more of a sense of occasion.
If the Mini was a daily i'd say keep it for the reliability, not that E46's are bad but ultimately its a 20 year old car
If the Mini was a daily i'd say keep it for the reliability, not that E46's are bad but ultimately its a 20 year old car
I wouldnt pay much attention to journos as they all have different opinions and do what suits you.
The E46 would have to be great for me to spend £15k on one, most have rust issues but the odd gem will come along now and again, you will have to pay for it though.
I think the Mini would be more fun, why not try a reputable map first just to see how you feel rather than going all out.
The M2 OG is coming down close to £20k these days, a slight man maths budget creep but well worth considering.
The E46 would have to be great for me to spend £15k on one, most have rust issues but the odd gem will come along now and again, you will have to pay for it though.
I think the Mini would be more fun, why not try a reputable map first just to see how you feel rather than going all out.
The M2 OG is coming down close to £20k these days, a slight man maths budget creep but well worth considering.
Having owned an F56 JCW I would start with:
1) Damping/compliancy - it's s
te from the factory, so a good set of coilovers with a not too high spring rate would be my first stop
2) No LSD - it really needs one
After that I would look at what's needed for more power.
Note this Lohen package does most of what you need (again I would query coilover compliance for fast road use): https://www.lohen.co.uk/shop/gen-3-mini/packages/l...
An E46 M3 is a cool car but much older, so you'll have higher running costs and more time off the road.
1) Damping/compliancy - it's s
te from the factory, so a good set of coilovers with a not too high spring rate would be my first stop2) No LSD - it really needs one
After that I would look at what's needed for more power.
Note this Lohen package does most of what you need (again I would query coilover compliance for fast road use): https://www.lohen.co.uk/shop/gen-3-mini/packages/l...
An E46 M3 is a cool car but much older, so you'll have higher running costs and more time off the road.
Olivera said:
Having owned an F56 JCW I would start with:
1) Damping/compliancy - it's ste from the factory, so a good set of coilovers with a not too high spring rate would be my first stop
2) No LSD - it really needs one
After that I would look at what's needed for more power.
Note this Lohen package does most of what you need (again I would query coilover compliance for fast road use): https://www.lohen.co.uk/shop/gen-3-mini/packages/l...
An E46 M3 is a cool car but much older, so you'll have higher running costs and more time off the road.
Exactly my plan for the mini... If I keep it (which I probably will given the responses I've had) then next month I'll be fitting lightweight 17s to replace the boat anchor 18s and KW V1 coilovers or JCW Pros, then a Wavetrac LSD (and probably replace the clutch while I'm at it) then intercooler and map.1) Damping/compliancy - it's s
te from the factory, so a good set of coilovers with a not too high spring rate would be my first stop2) No LSD - it really needs one
After that I would look at what's needed for more power.
Note this Lohen package does most of what you need (again I would query coilover compliance for fast road use): https://www.lohen.co.uk/shop/gen-3-mini/packages/l...
An E46 M3 is a cool car but much older, so you'll have higher running costs and more time off the road.
Should be a very fun car after that.
I'll check out the Lohen link, thanks
I loved my E46 M3 and I was preparing to buy another one as a weekend car a few weeks ago, it was getting on for £23k.. but it was a nice car with good spec: coupe, manual, low miles, very comprehensive history, had recently had a rear subframe/underside refresh completed with an OEM suspension refresh.
However I missed out on it and now I’ve removed the rose tinted buying specs I’m not glad that I missed it, but I’m able to focus on what hadn’t been done to that car.
- brakes: although new, as standard they’re insufficient for fast road driving.. never mind track work.
- head gasket: still original.
- vanos: still original.
- rod bearings: still original.
- tyres: quite old/mid-worn MPSS, I’d want to fit fresh MP4S or Conti SC7.
- suspension: refreshed but original, I’d want to improve it.
- intake: still original, I’d want a CSL-esque airbox to release ‘that’ noise and this also requires further work/expense.
- interior: standard seats and infotainment both need upgraded for me.
…once I started to add in some essential (to me) upgrades to the purchase price, it became clear that I’d be £30k+ into the car very quickly, which opens up other car options and lo’ the man maths calculator starts to go into overdrive.
Even if you’d be happy with a standard car and ignore my upgrade path, there is still a few thousand pounds worth of work in that list for a <60k mile, 3 owner, very cherished car.
If you drop the purchase price to £15k then mileage of potential purchase creeps up, history is likely to be a little more patchy/contain less brand specialist stamps, rust issues up top/underneath and ‘tiny 5p bubble’ type comments in adverts start to appear.. it’s not a level of E46 M3-ownership which I’d be keen to buy in at.
You could switch to SMG cars, which the market sees as less valuable so you’d have more chance of buying into a better base car for £15k. However in addition to the general E46 M3 issues, they also bring some SMG-specific issues to the party so just be mindful of that.
However I missed out on it and now I’ve removed the rose tinted buying specs I’m not glad that I missed it, but I’m able to focus on what hadn’t been done to that car.
- brakes: although new, as standard they’re insufficient for fast road driving.. never mind track work.
- head gasket: still original.
- vanos: still original.
- rod bearings: still original.
- tyres: quite old/mid-worn MPSS, I’d want to fit fresh MP4S or Conti SC7.
- suspension: refreshed but original, I’d want to improve it.
- intake: still original, I’d want a CSL-esque airbox to release ‘that’ noise and this also requires further work/expense.
- interior: standard seats and infotainment both need upgraded for me.
…once I started to add in some essential (to me) upgrades to the purchase price, it became clear that I’d be £30k+ into the car very quickly, which opens up other car options and lo’ the man maths calculator starts to go into overdrive.
Even if you’d be happy with a standard car and ignore my upgrade path, there is still a few thousand pounds worth of work in that list for a <60k mile, 3 owner, very cherished car.
If you drop the purchase price to £15k then mileage of potential purchase creeps up, history is likely to be a little more patchy/contain less brand specialist stamps, rust issues up top/underneath and ‘tiny 5p bubble’ type comments in adverts start to appear.. it’s not a level of E46 M3-ownership which I’d be keen to buy in at.
You could switch to SMG cars, which the market sees as less valuable so you’d have more chance of buying into a better base car for £15k. However in addition to the general E46 M3 issues, they also bring some SMG-specific issues to the party so just be mindful of that.
I think I'll stick with the Mini then As well as the rod bearing, Vanos and boot-floor issues on the M3 you'll need an Inspection 1 or Inspection 2 service in between oil services, so that's every 4 years however little mileage you do.
My local BMW Indy charges £550 for an Inspection 1, a bit more for a 2 because it includes checking valve clearances when cold and adjusting them using shims - no hydraulic lifters on an S54 engine.
Then you'd probably start modifying it anyway, just from a more expensive starting point! And you never get money back for modifications because everyone seems to want to buy a stock car - then they modify it.
Without a doubt it'll feel a lot more special with that epic engine, but you have to pay to play!
FWIW I've never had an M3 but did consider one then realised it was cheaper to buy a Z4M with a very similar drivetrain and I prefer the looks of the Coupe to the E46.
My local BMW Indy charges £550 for an Inspection 1, a bit more for a 2 because it includes checking valve clearances when cold and adjusting them using shims - no hydraulic lifters on an S54 engine.
Then you'd probably start modifying it anyway, just from a more expensive starting point! And you never get money back for modifications because everyone seems to want to buy a stock car - then they modify it.
Without a doubt it'll feel a lot more special with that epic engine, but you have to pay to play!
FWIW I've never had an M3 but did consider one then realised it was cheaper to buy a Z4M with a very similar drivetrain and I prefer the looks of the Coupe to the E46.
Mr Tidy said:
Without a doubt it'll feel a lot more special with that epic engine, but you have to pay to play!
FWIW I've never had an M3 but did consider one then realised it was cheaper to buy a Z4M with a very similar drivetrain and I prefer the looks of the Coupe to the E46.
Yeah I came to the conclusion I don't really have deep enough pockets and if I end up wanting to mod it then it kind of defeats the purpose in a way. I'll stick to my league. It seemed a good idea when I wrote the post after way too many holiday cocktails FWIW I've never had an M3 but did consider one then realised it was cheaper to buy a Z4M with a very similar drivetrain and I prefer the looks of the Coupe to the E46.
I would definitely take a z4mc over the M3 to be fair but I need back seats for the time being.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff