Weekend toy for £25k - Occasional trackdays, Euro trips
Discussion
Recently sold my F90 BMW M5 as the running costs, increasing insurance and scary depreciation were beginning to make me sweat a bit... I've now got a Tesla Model 3 Performance which is saving me a wedge each month over the M5. The idea was to run this on it's own until the new year then pick up a toy to run alongside it.
The Tesla is quick, has all the toys and costs peanuts to run, but it's only been 6 weeks and I am itching for something RWD that runs on unleaded.
I've previously had:
Mini Cooper S (F56)
BMW M140i
BMW M4
BMW M5
The brief is something that feels a bit special, can do the odd trackday (something I'd like to get into), and isn't too compromised as we're keen to do a euro trip next year and may make a regular thing of it.
I was very much set on an E92 M3 as I like M cars and have loved the ones I've previously had, they seem special to me and the engine itself is a big draw being an NA V8 - something I've never had in a performance car. The values seem to be on the up too which is an added bonus. I'm aware it would need a brake upgrade for track work, however they seem to be very popular on trackdays and it seems a good compromise between performance, specialness, and usability for doing distance in.
I've been looking at 911s recently too, however the budget restricts me to a 996 or a 997 of the age where bore score/IMS is likely to be an issue. Having ran BMWs previously I'm comfortable addressing the major issues on the E92 but a 911 scares me a little - is this warranted or are they generally reliable? Possibly more suited to track stuff than the E92?
Other considerations:
M2 - probably better than the E92 from both track and usability points, don't seem special to me - too similar to M140i?
M4 - probably the ideal car for this brief but I've had one already.
Aforementioned 996 or 997S.
981 Boxster/Cayman S - probably be a bottom of the market example for my budget.
Z4M - Don't know much about these other than them having the S54 from the E46 M3.
What else is there?
To be honest I'm not that interested in MX5s etc as the power level would frustrate me, after something a bit more serious as per the above. An interesting engine would be a nice since the daily is electric.
Suggestions welcome.
The Tesla is quick, has all the toys and costs peanuts to run, but it's only been 6 weeks and I am itching for something RWD that runs on unleaded.
I've previously had:
Mini Cooper S (F56)
BMW M140i
BMW M4
BMW M5
The brief is something that feels a bit special, can do the odd trackday (something I'd like to get into), and isn't too compromised as we're keen to do a euro trip next year and may make a regular thing of it.
I was very much set on an E92 M3 as I like M cars and have loved the ones I've previously had, they seem special to me and the engine itself is a big draw being an NA V8 - something I've never had in a performance car. The values seem to be on the up too which is an added bonus. I'm aware it would need a brake upgrade for track work, however they seem to be very popular on trackdays and it seems a good compromise between performance, specialness, and usability for doing distance in.
I've been looking at 911s recently too, however the budget restricts me to a 996 or a 997 of the age where bore score/IMS is likely to be an issue. Having ran BMWs previously I'm comfortable addressing the major issues on the E92 but a 911 scares me a little - is this warranted or are they generally reliable? Possibly more suited to track stuff than the E92?
Other considerations:
M2 - probably better than the E92 from both track and usability points, don't seem special to me - too similar to M140i?
M4 - probably the ideal car for this brief but I've had one already.
Aforementioned 996 or 997S.
981 Boxster/Cayman S - probably be a bottom of the market example for my budget.
Z4M - Don't know much about these other than them having the S54 from the E46 M3.
What else is there?
To be honest I'm not that interested in MX5s etc as the power level would frustrate me, after something a bit more serious as per the above. An interesting engine would be a nice since the daily is electric.
Suggestions welcome.
BMW M2 as you have already mentioned.
Quick cars, sound nice, and decent handling. Good sized boot for road trips. Put some different pads in, and racing fluid, and off you go. In budget too for an OG.
Similar performance to a 140 but much better on track, and IMO, has a lot more presence. It would be better than an M4 on track in stock form.
Quick cars, sound nice, and decent handling. Good sized boot for road trips. Put some different pads in, and racing fluid, and off you go. In budget too for an OG.
Similar performance to a 140 but much better on track, and IMO, has a lot more presence. It would be better than an M4 on track in stock form.
Edited by Smooth Smith on Wednesday 11th September 11:02
GR86?
Feels faster than the figures suggest, brilliant to drive, actually quite practical if you use the back seats for storage rather than people. You can even extend the warranty to 10 years if you get it serviced at Toyota after year 3.
Evo certainly liked it: "measured by any metric you care to choose, the GR86 is a faster, fitter and more roundly rewarding steer, hence its second place finish in evo Car of the Year 2022, coming out ahead of the incredible Ferrari 296 GTB and McLaren Artura as one of the finest performance cars on sale today."
Feels faster than the figures suggest, brilliant to drive, actually quite practical if you use the back seats for storage rather than people. You can even extend the warranty to 10 years if you get it serviced at Toyota after year 3.
Evo certainly liked it: "measured by any metric you care to choose, the GR86 is a faster, fitter and more roundly rewarding steer, hence its second place finish in evo Car of the Year 2022, coming out ahead of the incredible Ferrari 296 GTB and McLaren Artura as one of the finest performance cars on sale today."
SydneyBridge said:
Some kind of Lotus
Think an Elise would be too compromised for euro trips, so it would need to be an Evora which is pushing the budget for a good one.Smooth Smith said:
BMW M2 as you have already mentioned.
Quick cars, sound nice, and decent handling. Good sized boot for road trips. Put some different pads in, and racing fluid, and off you go. In budget too for an OG.
Similar performance to a 140 but much better on track, and IMO, has a lot more presence. It would be better than an M4 on track in stock form.
M2 is one of the main contenders but what's holding me back is that I could have just got one as a daily and used it for everything. It makes the Tesla sort of redundant. Think I'm looking for something that I 'couldn't daily' if that makes sense? That sort of discounts the M4 as well. Convoluted I know... not ruling one out yet though.Quick cars, sound nice, and decent handling. Good sized boot for road trips. Put some different pads in, and racing fluid, and off you go. In budget too for an OG.
Similar performance to a 140 but much better on track, and IMO, has a lot more presence. It would be better than an M4 on track in stock form.
Edited by Smooth Smith on Wednesday 11th September 11:02
callahan said:
GR86?
Feels faster than the figures suggest, brilliant to drive, actually quite practical if you use the back seats for storage rather than people. You can even extend the warranty to 10 years if you get it serviced at Toyota after year 3."
Never tried one of these but might go and see one. I drove a mate's gt86 years ago but thought it was a little gutless - I guess the newer lump in the GR would be better. Feels faster than the figures suggest, brilliant to drive, actually quite practical if you use the back seats for storage rather than people. You can even extend the warranty to 10 years if you get it serviced at Toyota after year 3."
Cheers guys
I've been around a track as a passenger in both the OG M2 and M2 Comp, and they both left me very impressed.
I didn't like my E92 M3(or Z4M) on the road, but I think that they'd both suit a track though. The Z4M's suspension was a bit too hard for me personally for the road for example, and the M3 had a habit of feeling heavy when you were going slow, but it did come alive at speed though I thought.
I didn't like my E92 M3(or Z4M) on the road, but I think that they'd both suit a track though. The Z4M's suspension was a bit too hard for me personally for the road for example, and the M3 had a habit of feeling heavy when you were going slow, but it did come alive at speed though I thought.
Hammy98 said:
Never tried one of these but might go and see one. I drove a mate's gt86 years ago but thought it was a little gutless - I guess the newer lump in the GR would be better.
Cheers guys
I think you'd ache for more performance in a standard one(GT86), but a turbocharged or supercharged one could hit the spot though. I see the odd one for sale occasionally. Cheers guys
croyde said:
An Alpine?
Although I'm not sure that they are down to anything beginning with 2 yet.
Absolutely loving mine, plenty get tracked yet I'd be happy to do a Grand Tour in mine.
Only 252bhp, newer ones have 300 but the car only weighs 1100kgs.
I very nearly bought an 'S' a couple of years back before I bought the M5, it certainly appeals but they're a decent bit over 30k still.Although I'm not sure that they are down to anything beginning with 2 yet.
Absolutely loving mine, plenty get tracked yet I'd be happy to do a Grand Tour in mine.
Only 252bhp, newer ones have 300 but the car only weighs 1100kgs.
Lovely things.
TheOctaneAddict said:
I bought a manual 981 Cayman for this exact use case, fantastic car that's been super reliable. Moving on from it now as I want a Caterham for sprinting and trackdays.
How did you find the gearing in the manual? Is it as long as people make out? Feel like the 981 gen look very current still. Good to hear they are reliable. On the shortlist still.cerb4.5lee said:
I've been around a track as a passenger in both the OG M2 and M2 Comp, and they both left me very impressed.
I didn't like my E92 M3(or Z4M) on the road, but I think that they'd both suit a track though. The Z4M's suspension was a bit too hard for me personally for the road for example, and the M3 had a habit of feeling heavy when you were going slow, but it did come alive at speed though I thought.
I suspect the E92 and the Z4M would frustrate me as a daily, but they make sense as a toy. They fit in well with the brief as there's barely any overlap with the Tesla - I wouldn't want to use either of them every day.I didn't like my E92 M3(or Z4M) on the road, but I think that they'd both suit a track though. The Z4M's suspension was a bit too hard for me personally for the road for example, and the M3 had a habit of feeling heavy when you were going slow, but it did come alive at speed though I thought.
Hammy98 said:
TheOctaneAddict said:
I bought a manual 981 Cayman for this exact use case, fantastic car that's been super reliable. Moving on from it now as I want a Caterham for sprinting and trackdays.
How did you find the gearing in the manual? Is it as long as people make out? Feel like the 981 gen look very current still. Good to hear they are reliable. On the shortlist still. Here's a video of mine at Donington,17:00 there's a clean flat out lap. Makes a glorious noise with the PSE and Sports Chrono Doing the blips.
As a do it all "fun" car it really can do it all, I was looking at all the cars you have mentioned but after a short test drive in a 981 I knew I had to have one.
Hammy98 said:
Never tried one of these but might go and see one. I drove a mate's gt86 years ago but thought it was a little gutless - I guess the newer lump in the GR would be better.
Cheers guys
Yeah, I nearly bought a BRZ years ago, but felt the same way about the engine. The GR86 is totally different though, lots of torque low down and considerably more power. Not the most charismatic engine (particularly compared to my old 986) but very effective. A huge difference for me compared to Porsche ownership was the reliability, never a thought about anything going wrong (unlike my 986) and a 10 year warranty is pretty amazing.Cheers guys
You might struggle to find a GR86 for your budget, but mine's in the classifieds as I have to get a boring barge for lots of motorway trips with my new job and isn't far over. I was planning on some Euro tours too, but that will have to wait now - I'll get another when I can.
I had a test drive in a GT86 back in 2014 and found the performance disappointing. A GR86 might be better but I'm not sure they will be down to £25K yet.
Anyway I ended up buying a 3 litre Z4 Coupe which I really liked, but in 2019 I upgraded to a Z4M Coupe for fun days as it was an itch that had to be scratched and I love it. Especially the engine note towards the top of the rev range!
Anyway I ended up buying a 3 litre Z4 Coupe which I really liked, but in 2019 I upgraded to a Z4M Coupe for fun days as it was an itch that had to be scratched and I love it. Especially the engine note towards the top of the rev range!
+1 for the M2 it’s perfect.
I just sold my M2 and went a Tesla Model 3. While you can daily an M2 I think you’ll still take the Tesla 99% of the time as it’s just way more hassle free and cheaper.
The M2 is a special wee car. Its biggest downfall is it has the bonus of being a sports car that is actually practical but it’s a riot to drive, bulletproof, runs all day on track and sounds brilliant. Highly recommend. Basically a Fiesta ST on roids.
I just sold my M2 and went a Tesla Model 3. While you can daily an M2 I think you’ll still take the Tesla 99% of the time as it’s just way more hassle free and cheaper.
The M2 is a special wee car. Its biggest downfall is it has the bonus of being a sports car that is actually practical but it’s a riot to drive, bulletproof, runs all day on track and sounds brilliant. Highly recommend. Basically a Fiesta ST on roids.
You’ve had M cars, lots of them, try something else. For your budget or slightly more, a 997 fits the brief. Buy 2006+ with larger IMS and look for one that’s had a rebuild or a borescope check . 3.6 or 3.8, they both just as good. If 996, try and get a C4S or 40 Jahre - both have strong residuals especially a manual C4S
A 996/997 will be no more expensive than running an M3 V8 and you have to scratch that itch for one. They’re great.
A 996/997 will be no more expensive than running an M3 V8 and you have to scratch that itch for one. They’re great.
Lotus Evora:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406060...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406100...
370Z Nismo a great N/A drivers car:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408223...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406180...
Leftfield
C6 Corvette with the Z51 pack:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408142...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406060...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406100...
370Z Nismo a great N/A drivers car:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408223...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406180...
Leftfield
C6 Corvette with the Z51 pack:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408142...
TheOctaneAddict said:
Gearing is the only let down, 2nd gear will take you to just over 80mph. On road it can be a little annoying but on a fast circuit the gearing works well.
Here's a video of mine at Donington,17:00 there's a clean flat out lap. Makes a glorious noise with the PSE and Sports Chrono Doing the blips.
As a do it all "fun" car it really can do it all, I was looking at all the cars you have mentioned but after a short test drive in a 981 I knew I had to have one.
I'd thought that might be the case, I was concerned being N/A and long geared it might feel lacking in torque but yours seems more than quick enough. I'll try and get a go in one.Here's a video of mine at Donington,17:00 there's a clean flat out lap. Makes a glorious noise with the PSE and Sports Chrono Doing the blips.
As a do it all "fun" car it really can do it all, I was looking at all the cars you have mentioned but after a short test drive in a 981 I knew I had to have one.
Sounds lovely too!
Mr Tidy said:
I had a test drive in a GT86 back in 2014 and found the performance disappointing. A GR86 might be better but I'm not sure they will be down to £25K yet.
Anyway I ended up buying a 3 litre Z4 Coupe which I really liked, but in 2019 I upgraded to a Z4M Coupe for fun days as it was an itch that had to be scratched and I love it. Especially the engine note towards the top of the rev range!
I'd been eyeing up Z4s originally but then the budget creep set in, was thinking if I picked up a 3.0si I'd want to add an LSD and maybe do something with the suspension - at which point I'm not far off a Z4m in overall spend.Anyway I ended up buying a 3 litre Z4 Coupe which I really liked, but in 2019 I upgraded to a Z4M Coupe for fun days as it was an itch that had to be scratched and I love it. Especially the engine note towards the top of the rev range!
The Z4m is one of my favourite looking BMWs ever. Theres an Imola one that I see on my commute occasionally and it's a special looking thing. I'd have one over an E46 anyday.
CG2020UK said:
+1 for the M2 it’s perfect.
I just sold my M2 and went a Tesla Model 3. While you can daily an M2 I think you’ll still take the Tesla 99% of the time as it’s just way more hassle free and cheaper.
The M2 is a special wee car. Its biggest downfall is it has the bonus of being a sports car that is actually practical but it’s a riot to drive, bulletproof, runs all day on track and sounds brilliant. Highly recommend. Basically a Fiesta ST on roids.
I was thinking this over some more last night - you're right. The M2 probably suits the best out of the cars I'm looking at, the problem is there's something drawing me to each of them.I just sold my M2 and went a Tesla Model 3. While you can daily an M2 I think you’ll still take the Tesla 99% of the time as it’s just way more hassle free and cheaper.
The M2 is a special wee car. Its biggest downfall is it has the bonus of being a sports car that is actually practical but it’s a riot to drive, bulletproof, runs all day on track and sounds brilliant. Highly recommend. Basically a Fiesta ST on roids.
I think an M2 with a few modifications would be perfect. I'm still drawn to the E92, but the M2 would be a lot less needy, cheaper to run, perform better and be more reliable. It does make sense.
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