WBAC - elderly father taken advantage of in sale of vehicle
Discussion
hi so my dad is in in 80's and had an old car he used for the tip run, it was running out of mot and he felt he wanted rid.
i went on WeBuyAnyCar and it was quoted at £675, inuderstand that is for a mint model of the vehicle, I added some conservative 'damage' and it dropped to £627.
I live far from him and told him to expect them to definitely knock the price down and he said he was fine with that.
Anyway, he took the car to WBAC, and the salesman met him, said 'ok so we have quoted you £627...' he walked round the car, looked under the bonnet and under the car. and then ushered him to sit down and said 'right so we will take off £49.99 fee of the total price and you will get the money in 48h'... (stupidly) he signed the tablet and went away expecting about £570-odd quid.
To his shock, he got £62 and change. They had valued the car at £112. and he signed the contract. He thought they made a mistake when he saw the money in his account, called them up and they said they would look in to it and said it was probably a mistake.
However when I looked at the invoice I see he signed it. He was obviously gutted and very embarrassed he took the salesman on his word. He said he never heard the salesman say anything about the final value offer for the vehicle, and he was under the impression he was getting £627 less the £49.99.
He has signed the contract so I am sure he is screwed, its a real shame. I have called them and they keep telling me a manager will call me back, this has been two weeks now.
I am sad he signed something without reading it but I am sure he would never have accepted receiving a final value of 90% less than the quoted price.
My pal is a solicitor and said there is nothing I can do and they do not legally have to verbally say anything about the final price offer.
I take it my old man just has to draw a line under it and accept his loss?
i went on WeBuyAnyCar and it was quoted at £675, inuderstand that is for a mint model of the vehicle, I added some conservative 'damage' and it dropped to £627.
I live far from him and told him to expect them to definitely knock the price down and he said he was fine with that.
Anyway, he took the car to WBAC, and the salesman met him, said 'ok so we have quoted you £627...' he walked round the car, looked under the bonnet and under the car. and then ushered him to sit down and said 'right so we will take off £49.99 fee of the total price and you will get the money in 48h'... (stupidly) he signed the tablet and went away expecting about £570-odd quid.
To his shock, he got £62 and change. They had valued the car at £112. and he signed the contract. He thought they made a mistake when he saw the money in his account, called them up and they said they would look in to it and said it was probably a mistake.
However when I looked at the invoice I see he signed it. He was obviously gutted and very embarrassed he took the salesman on his word. He said he never heard the salesman say anything about the final value offer for the vehicle, and he was under the impression he was getting £627 less the £49.99.
He has signed the contract so I am sure he is screwed, its a real shame. I have called them and they keep telling me a manager will call me back, this has been two weeks now.
I am sad he signed something without reading it but I am sure he would never have accepted receiving a final value of 90% less than the quoted price.
My pal is a solicitor and said there is nothing I can do and they do not legally have to verbally say anything about the final price offer.
I take it my old man just has to draw a line under it and accept his loss?
Speak to Citizens Advice and perhaps try contacting WBAC by posting the story on their social media.
Builders turn up at OAPs houses all the time and provide contracts for £1000s of £££ of work but just because it's signed doesn't make it right.
Bottom line is no way would he have let the car go for that amount - scrap would have paid more!
Builders turn up at OAPs houses all the time and provide contracts for £1000s of £££ of work but just because it's signed doesn't make it right.
Bottom line is no way would he have let the car go for that amount - scrap would have paid more!
ayedubya said:
hi so my dad is in in 80's and had an old car he used for the tip run, it was running out of mot and he felt he wanted rid.
i went on WeBuyAnyCar and it was quoted at £675, inuderstand that is for a mint model of the vehicle, I added some conservative 'damage' and it dropped to £627.
I live far from him and told him to expect them to definitely knock the price down and he said he was fine with that.
Anyway, he took the car to WBAC, and the salesman met him, said 'ok so we have quoted you £627...' he walked round the car, looked under the bonnet and under the car. and then ushered him to sit down and said 'right so we will take off £49.99 fee of the total price and you will get the money in 48h'... (stupidly) he signed the tablet and went away expecting about £570-odd quid.
To his shock, he got £62 and change. They had valued the car at £112. and he signed the contract. He thought they made a mistake when he saw the money in his account, called them up and they said they would look in to it and said it was probably a mistake.
However when I looked at the invoice I see he signed it. He was obviously gutted and very embarrassed he took the salesman on his word. He said he never heard the salesman say anything about the final value offer for the vehicle, and he was under the impression he was getting £627 less the £49.99.
He has signed the contract so I am sure he is screwed, its a real shame. I have called them and they keep telling me a manager will call me back, this has been two weeks now.
I am sad he signed something without reading it but I am sure he would never have accepted receiving a final value of 90% less than the quoted price.
My pal is a solicitor and said there is nothing I can do and they do not legally have to verbally say anything about the final price offer.
I take it my old man just has to draw a line under it and accept his loss?
Your Pal is a poor Solictor (if he is one) and needs to hand-back their qualification immediately from whichever cereal-box he may have got one. .i went on WeBuyAnyCar and it was quoted at £675, inuderstand that is for a mint model of the vehicle, I added some conservative 'damage' and it dropped to £627.
I live far from him and told him to expect them to definitely knock the price down and he said he was fine with that.
Anyway, he took the car to WBAC, and the salesman met him, said 'ok so we have quoted you £627...' he walked round the car, looked under the bonnet and under the car. and then ushered him to sit down and said 'right so we will take off £49.99 fee of the total price and you will get the money in 48h'... (stupidly) he signed the tablet and went away expecting about £570-odd quid.
To his shock, he got £62 and change. They had valued the car at £112. and he signed the contract. He thought they made a mistake when he saw the money in his account, called them up and they said they would look in to it and said it was probably a mistake.
However when I looked at the invoice I see he signed it. He was obviously gutted and very embarrassed he took the salesman on his word. He said he never heard the salesman say anything about the final value offer for the vehicle, and he was under the impression he was getting £627 less the £49.99.
He has signed the contract so I am sure he is screwed, its a real shame. I have called them and they keep telling me a manager will call me back, this has been two weeks now.
I am sad he signed something without reading it but I am sure he would never have accepted receiving a final value of 90% less than the quoted price.
My pal is a solicitor and said there is nothing I can do and they do not legally have to verbally say anything about the final price offer.
I take it my old man just has to draw a line under it and accept his loss?
Your Pals dispute resolution skills are staggeringly bad, for a Solicitor as well.
Write to Avril.palmer-baunack@bca.com and explain your Fathers position and ask for her immediate intervention into this matter and a resolution as it’s a dreadful misunderstanding on both parties. She’ll sort it as they’ll not take up anymore commercial time over 000’s.
Implied rights of Contract Law could come into play here.
If, for some reason, and what you’re saying is correct and they’re starting to not play beach-ball then threaten them with a small claims MCOL, to be heard in your local court. They’ll not want to fight it over £600(ish).
You do have options but they’ll fold on email(1) and/or email(2).
Hope this helps.
ADJimbo said:
Your Pal is a poor Solictor (if he is one) and needs to hand-back their qualification immediately from whichever cereal-box he may have got one. .
Your Pals dispute resolution skills are staggeringly bad, for a Solicitor as well.
Write to Avril.palmer-baunack@bca.com and explain your Fathers position and ask for her immediate intervention into this matter and a resolution as it’s a dreadful misunderstanding on both parties. She’ll sort it as they’ll not take up anymore commercial time over 000’s.
Implied rights of Contract Law could come into play here.
If, for some reason, and what you’re saying is correct and they’re starting to not play beach-ball then threaten them with a small claims MCOL, to be heard in your local court. They’ll not want to fight it over £600(ish).
You do have options but they’ll fold on email(1) and/or email(2).
Hope this helps.
Have you missed the part where he signed and accepted the offer?? His solicitor friends advice IMHO is spot on. We're only getting 1 side of the story. Your Pals dispute resolution skills are staggeringly bad, for a Solicitor as well.
Write to Avril.palmer-baunack@bca.com and explain your Fathers position and ask for her immediate intervention into this matter and a resolution as it’s a dreadful misunderstanding on both parties. She’ll sort it as they’ll not take up anymore commercial time over 000’s.
Implied rights of Contract Law could come into play here.
If, for some reason, and what you’re saying is correct and they’re starting to not play beach-ball then threaten them with a small claims MCOL, to be heard in your local court. They’ll not want to fight it over £600(ish).
You do have options but they’ll fold on email(1) and/or email(2).
Hope this helps.
Your suggestion of going the court route is ludicrous
.
Social media is a far better idea, but I bet WBAC get these sort of stories daily....
ADJimbo said:
Your Pal is a poor Solictor (if he is one) and needs to hand-back their qualification immediately from whichever cereal-box he may have got one. .
Your Pals dispute resolution skills are staggeringly bad, for a Solicitor as well.
Write to Avril.palmer-baunack@bca.com and explain your Fathers position and ask for her immediate intervention into this matter and a resolution as it’s a dreadful misunderstanding on both parties. She’ll sort it as they’ll not take up anymore commercial time over 000’s.
Implied rights of Contract Law could come into play here.
If, for some reason, and what you’re saying is correct and they’re starting to not play beach-ball then threaten them with a small claims MCOL, to be heard in your local court. They’ll not want to fight it over £600(ish).
You do have options but they’ll fold on email(1) and/or email(2).
Hope this helps.
Appreciate all the comments thus far. My dad did sign the invoice tho, so he has accepted the fee and they can just say 'we told the old codger how much he was getting'... and my poor dad will say he didn't hear that or wasn't told that... but he signed the contract.Your Pals dispute resolution skills are staggeringly bad, for a Solicitor as well.
Write to Avril.palmer-baunack@bca.com and explain your Fathers position and ask for her immediate intervention into this matter and a resolution as it’s a dreadful misunderstanding on both parties. She’ll sort it as they’ll not take up anymore commercial time over 000’s.
Implied rights of Contract Law could come into play here.
If, for some reason, and what you’re saying is correct and they’re starting to not play beach-ball then threaten them with a small claims MCOL, to be heard in your local court. They’ll not want to fight it over £600(ish).
You do have options but they’ll fold on email(1) and/or email(2).
Hope this helps.
also not sure who avril palmer is and why BCA would be involved in this? thanks
A car with a short MOT and damage might well only be worth buttons in the WBAC sphere.
What would it have fetched at a trade auction?
That is the reference point, and then you have to understand that WBAC effectively takes money for being a convenient service.
What is the lowest you might have got if you'd ebay'd it, no reserve?
If some backstreet dealer is going to pay their mortgage by selling such things, how much does he want to buy it for, bearing in mind the CRA and costs of repairs and all that?
The starting point you thought was fair is under a grand, naff-all basically.
From there you are quibbling about slightly different shades of 'zero'.
Obviously a hundred quid or so is a big % off of six hundred quid or so, but both are very small numbers in the real world of cars, when a new one is thirty grand or more.
In the scheme of things it doesn't make a big difference whether the end game is getting a few hundred notes or paying a man to take the remains away, over the whole time you own a car.
So really it comes down to whether the WBAC person was taking advantage of someone who should not be making such decisions.
You were happy for this person to be driving?
Is the customer-facing WBAC person on some sort of commission for getting the car super cheap?
Or just doing his job?
WBAC are perhaps a bit cornered by their name, whereas most traders would simply look at a shed and say 'sorry I am not in the business of buying that'.
Put the reg into the MOT/VED checkers and see if it's sailed through the MOT and been sold and taxed.
What would it have fetched at a trade auction?
That is the reference point, and then you have to understand that WBAC effectively takes money for being a convenient service.
What is the lowest you might have got if you'd ebay'd it, no reserve?
If some backstreet dealer is going to pay their mortgage by selling such things, how much does he want to buy it for, bearing in mind the CRA and costs of repairs and all that?
The starting point you thought was fair is under a grand, naff-all basically.
From there you are quibbling about slightly different shades of 'zero'.
Obviously a hundred quid or so is a big % off of six hundred quid or so, but both are very small numbers in the real world of cars, when a new one is thirty grand or more.
In the scheme of things it doesn't make a big difference whether the end game is getting a few hundred notes or paying a man to take the remains away, over the whole time you own a car.
So really it comes down to whether the WBAC person was taking advantage of someone who should not be making such decisions.
You were happy for this person to be driving?
Is the customer-facing WBAC person on some sort of commission for getting the car super cheap?
Or just doing his job?
WBAC are perhaps a bit cornered by their name, whereas most traders would simply look at a shed and say 'sorry I am not in the business of buying that'.
Put the reg into the MOT/VED checkers and see if it's sailed through the MOT and been sold and taxed.
PoorCarCollector said:
ADJimbo said:
Your Pal is a poor Solictor (if he is one) and needs to hand-back their qualification immediately from whichever cereal-box he may have got one. .
Your Pals dispute resolution skills are staggeringly bad, for a Solicitor as well.
Write to Avril.palmer-baunack@bca.com and explain your Fathers position and ask for her immediate intervention into this matter and a resolution as it’s a dreadful misunderstanding on both parties. She’ll sort it as they’ll not take up anymore commercial time over 000’s.
Implied rights of Contract Law could come into play here.
If, for some reason, and what you’re saying is correct and they’re starting to not play beach-ball then threaten them with a small claims MCOL, to be heard in your local court. They’ll not want to fight it over £600(ish).
You do have options but they’ll fold on email(1) and/or email(2).
Hope this helps.
Have you missed the part where he signed and accepted the offer?? His solicitor friends advice IMHO is spot on. We're only getting 1 side of the story. Your Pals dispute resolution skills are staggeringly bad, for a Solicitor as well.
Write to Avril.palmer-baunack@bca.com and explain your Fathers position and ask for her immediate intervention into this matter and a resolution as it’s a dreadful misunderstanding on both parties. She’ll sort it as they’ll not take up anymore commercial time over 000’s.
Implied rights of Contract Law could come into play here.
If, for some reason, and what you’re saying is correct and they’re starting to not play beach-ball then threaten them with a small claims MCOL, to be heard in your local court. They’ll not want to fight it over £600(ish).
You do have options but they’ll fold on email(1) and/or email(2).
Hope this helps.
Your suggestion of going the court route is ludicrous
.
Social media is a far better idea, but I bet WBAC get these sort of stories daily....
It’s brinksmanship. It’s not ludicrous.
If you were BCA, would you really field your own in-house or external Council at £8k a day, plus expenses, to fight a chap over £600? No you wouldn’t. It’ll be resolved long before then and the approach I’ve proposed will get this OP what he wants.
Social Media will not get a commercial resolution and to think it will, is madness. A simple nudge of commercialism towards them will do the trick here.
Anyway, I’ll bow down to your knowledge and prowess and hope the OP gets the result he craves under your own Stewardship.
ayedubya said:
Appreciate all the comments thus far. My dad did sign the invoice tho, so he has accepted the fee and they can just say 'we told the old codger how much he was getting'... and my poor dad will say he didn't hear that or wasn't told that... but he signed the contract.
also not sure who avril palmer is and why BCA would be involved in this? thanks
She's the CEO of BCA who own WBACalso not sure who avril palmer is and why BCA would be involved in this? thanks
But the above guy has had too much sherry with his Sunday roast, ignore!
ayedubya said:
ADJimbo said:
Your Pal is a poor Solictor (if he is one) and needs to hand-back their qualification immediately from whichever cereal-box he may have got one. .
Your Pals dispute resolution skills are staggeringly bad, for a Solicitor as well.
Write to Avril.palmer-baunack@bca.com and explain your Fathers position and ask for her immediate intervention into this matter and a resolution as it’s a dreadful misunderstanding on both parties. She’ll sort it as they’ll not take up anymore commercial time over 000’s.
Implied rights of Contract Law could come into play here.
If, for some reason, and what you’re saying is correct and they’re starting to not play beach-ball then threaten them with a small claims MCOL, to be heard in your local court. They’ll not want to fight it over £600(ish).
You do have options but they’ll fold on email(1) and/or email(2).
Hope this helps.
Appreciate all the comments thus far. My dad did sign the invoice tho, so he has accepted the fee and they can just say 'we told the old codger how much he was getting'... and my poor dad will say he didn't hear that or wasn't told that... but he signed the contract.Your Pals dispute resolution skills are staggeringly bad, for a Solicitor as well.
Write to Avril.palmer-baunack@bca.com and explain your Fathers position and ask for her immediate intervention into this matter and a resolution as it’s a dreadful misunderstanding on both parties. She’ll sort it as they’ll not take up anymore commercial time over 000’s.
Implied rights of Contract Law could come into play here.
If, for some reason, and what you’re saying is correct and they’re starting to not play beach-ball then threaten them with a small claims MCOL, to be heard in your local court. They’ll not want to fight it over £600(ish).
You do have options but they’ll fold on email(1) and/or email(2).
Hope this helps.
also not sure who avril palmer is and why BCA would be involved in this? thanks
The fact your Father did or did not sign the contract does not exclude it from being an unfair contract.
ayedubya said:
Appreciate all the comments thus far. My dad did sign the invoice tho, so he has accepted the fee and they can just say 'we told the old codger how much he was getting'... and my poor dad will say he didn't hear that or wasn't told that... but he signed the contract.
also not sure who avril palmer is and why BCA would be involved in this? thanks
I think ADJimbo has offered some good advice.also not sure who avril palmer is and why BCA would be involved in this? thanks
Along the same lines, WBAC will I suspect be regulated by the FCA. There are now additional obligations on regulated firms to identify vulnerable customers to ensure they are treated fairly and offered appropriate support. Just because your father signed the contract, doesn't mean WBAC have complied with this obligation. So an email to BCA asking them to investigate properly would I think achieve the desired outcome.
EddieSteadyGo said:
I think ADJimbo has offered some good advice.
Along the same lines, WBAC will I suspect be regulated by the FCA. There are now additional obligations on regulated firms to identify vulnerable customers to ensure they are treated fairly and offered appropriate support. Just because your father signed the contract, doesn't mean WBAC have complied with this obligation. So an email to BCA asking them to investigate properly would I think achieve the desired outcome.
They aren't regulated by the FCA so the Consumer Duty does not apply (in terms of FCA rules).Along the same lines, WBAC will I suspect be regulated by the FCA. There are now additional obligations on regulated firms to identify vulnerable customers to ensure they are treated fairly and offered appropriate support. Just because your father signed the contract, doesn't mean WBAC have complied with this obligation. So an email to BCA asking them to investigate properly would I think achieve the desired outcome.
OutInTheShed said:
What does £48 worth of damage look like?
I think i accurately described a scuff on the rear bumper. car had down very low mileage and despite being the car he would take hedge cuttings to the tip with it was surprisingly good nick. but there was corrosion underneath and the guy that did the MOT last year said he wouldn't be able to pass it this year without significant welding, that put my dad off so decided to get rid. REALLY appreciate the advice, I will email the CEO of BCA and if I get any kind of positive result I will buy ADJimbo a tipple of his choosing.
I am not wanting to go to social media but this instance is no different from the door-to-door PVC window sellers that would sell a conservatory to an oap in a high flat given the chance. I think if I got absolutely no where I would try to get traction on there, if only to call them out. my dad has resigned himself to losing the money and is a bit sad about it as another identifier that he is getting very past it.
as for should my dad still be driving? i think in the small village near to where he lives he is fine. would I send him on an errand into a city? hard no.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
So looking at this cynically wbac got a 2k auction car for £62.
OP was it definitely in good condition, you say 'a tip car'.
That's s very broad term but usually means tired. Maybe you remember the car with rose-tinted spectacles?
it was definitely in good condition looking at it for its year, it was a tip run car but he would still vac and clean out the boot/back seats after doing a run. That said it obviously had some rot underneath if the garage told dad to punt it or expect a hefty MOT bill to get it thru another year.OP was it definitely in good condition, you say 'a tip car'.
That's s very broad term but usually means tired. Maybe you remember the car with rose-tinted spectacles?
Basically even if WBAC said ok here is 300 instead of 627 for the original quote my dad would have walked away satisfied, he was just too tired/old to post it on gumtree/ebay etc and deal with all that.. he wanted rid. that said, for 62 quid?! he never ever would have accepted that. he would have sooner taken it to the scrap yard.
ayedubya said:
I think i accurately described a scuff on the rear bumper. car had down very low mileage and despite being the car he would take hedge cuttings to the tip with it was surprisingly good nick. but there was corrosion underneath and the guy that did the MOT last year said he wouldn't be able to pass it this year without significant welding, that put my dad off so decided to get rid.
REALLY appreciate the advice, I will email the CEO of BCA and if I get any kind of positive result I will buy ADJimbo a tipple of his choosing.
I am not wanting to go to social media but this instance is no different from the door-to-door PVC window sellers that would sell a conservatory to an oap in a high flat given the chance. I think if I got absolutely no where I would try to get traction on there, if only to call them out. my dad has resigned himself to losing the money and is a bit sad about it as another identifier that he is getting very past it.
as for should my dad still be driving? i think in the small village near to where he lives he is fine. would I send him on an errand into a city? hard no.
It really sounds like the £120 could have been a fair price for the car, given the asymmetry of the 'buy any car, any time' model.REALLY appreciate the advice, I will email the CEO of BCA and if I get any kind of positive result I will buy ADJimbo a tipple of his choosing.
I am not wanting to go to social media but this instance is no different from the door-to-door PVC window sellers that would sell a conservatory to an oap in a high flat given the chance. I think if I got absolutely no where I would try to get traction on there, if only to call them out. my dad has resigned himself to losing the money and is a bit sad about it as another identifier that he is getting very past it.
as for should my dad still be driving? i think in the small village near to where he lives he is fine. would I send him on an errand into a city? hard no.
I think charging £48 for a quick payment raises concern though.
That does sound like an inappropriate service in the context.
When did you last see the car?
What would you expect a dealer to give your for it, perhaps in PX for a £2k car?
WBAC have to transport it and flog it to another dealer, if anyone wants it.
Cars which need significant welding are mostly scrap these days.
If the WBAC bloke judged it to be not really roadworthy, then what should he have done?
He could have declined to do the deal I suppose.
But that doesn't mean your Dad would have got any more money from anyone else.
He's a car dealer's operative, not a GP or anyone qualified to make judgements about old people.
I would contact WBAC and concentrate on the quick payment fee service being miss-sold, If you get that back, call it a win and concentrate on the things that matter. I've been there with parents and inlaws, Good Luck
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