Comfortable, reliable and spacious car
Discussion
Hi
History - I’ve had numerous cars (and bikes) over the years and I’ve long preferred comfort over sportiness. My last 5 cars were Volvos but I’m not keen on them as the cost of ownership was high due to reliability issues with certain items and servicing costs.
Usage - it will be under 10k pa so petrol is the obvious answer although I previously had diesels as I like the torque/power. It will be mainly local weekend usage with circa 5 annual long journeys and one driving holiday around Europe.
Style - I like “wafty” and long distance cruising but I prefer saloons as they feel more planted. I also have a hearing impediment so I like quiet cars so I can hear my passengers when on the motorway.
Reliability - I’ve a Ford Ranger for work and it has cost me a fortune in repairs, mostly due to the dpf. Thus I would like a car that will be more reliable, hence the wish for petrol despite missing out on the torque.
I’ve two teenage boys and they are going to need leg room in the rear so spacious is a critical matter.
I have ruled out the usual German cars as I don’t believe in their long term reliability.
On my shortlist:
Mazda6 - 2.5 n/a petrol. Concerned about rear leg room. I’ve not seen any for sale locally so I can’t assess personally. I’m attracted to their styling and reliability especially having no turbo.
Toyota Camry - 2.5 petrol hybrid. Again, non are available locally so I can’t see one up close. Had a Toyota previously and lasted 6 months before I got rid of it as it was so dull. However, I understand the Camry is very comfortable and reliable and spacious but I do wonder about whether I’ll get bored!
Lexus ES - a posh Camry but I’m not convinced it’s worth the premium over a Camry.
Skoda Superb Sportline - mostly 1.5 petrol but I would want a 2.0l but past experience tells me to avoid VAG.
Insignia - never had a Vauxhall but have hired many although not an insignia. All have been boring. Ignoring the 1.5 petrol means looking at the 2.0 which are scarce and quite a lot of money. Not sure if they are worth considering above the previous cars mentioned.
So, comfort, plenty rear legroom, saloon/hatchback, and more importantly, reliable are the considerations.
I like cars that are not ostentatious which slightly rules out the Lexus.
Budget max £20k.
Views and opinions are welcomed! Thank you.
History - I’ve had numerous cars (and bikes) over the years and I’ve long preferred comfort over sportiness. My last 5 cars were Volvos but I’m not keen on them as the cost of ownership was high due to reliability issues with certain items and servicing costs.
Usage - it will be under 10k pa so petrol is the obvious answer although I previously had diesels as I like the torque/power. It will be mainly local weekend usage with circa 5 annual long journeys and one driving holiday around Europe.
Style - I like “wafty” and long distance cruising but I prefer saloons as they feel more planted. I also have a hearing impediment so I like quiet cars so I can hear my passengers when on the motorway.
Reliability - I’ve a Ford Ranger for work and it has cost me a fortune in repairs, mostly due to the dpf. Thus I would like a car that will be more reliable, hence the wish for petrol despite missing out on the torque.
I’ve two teenage boys and they are going to need leg room in the rear so spacious is a critical matter.
I have ruled out the usual German cars as I don’t believe in their long term reliability.
On my shortlist:
Mazda6 - 2.5 n/a petrol. Concerned about rear leg room. I’ve not seen any for sale locally so I can’t assess personally. I’m attracted to their styling and reliability especially having no turbo.
Toyota Camry - 2.5 petrol hybrid. Again, non are available locally so I can’t see one up close. Had a Toyota previously and lasted 6 months before I got rid of it as it was so dull. However, I understand the Camry is very comfortable and reliable and spacious but I do wonder about whether I’ll get bored!
Lexus ES - a posh Camry but I’m not convinced it’s worth the premium over a Camry.
Skoda Superb Sportline - mostly 1.5 petrol but I would want a 2.0l but past experience tells me to avoid VAG.
Insignia - never had a Vauxhall but have hired many although not an insignia. All have been boring. Ignoring the 1.5 petrol means looking at the 2.0 which are scarce and quite a lot of money. Not sure if they are worth considering above the previous cars mentioned.
So, comfort, plenty rear legroom, saloon/hatchback, and more importantly, reliable are the considerations.
I like cars that are not ostentatious which slightly rules out the Lexus.
Budget max £20k.
Views and opinions are welcomed! Thank you.
Have a Superb 220bhp 2.0t petrol sport line. It looks nice but wouldn't call it comfort with the seats and 19 inch wheels. It's fine up to about 2 hours behind the wheel but beyond that I start fidgeting and it's crashy over potholes riddled roads.
Would get an se-l or L&K if I had the choice again. Also the red paint is soft as anything.
Would get an se-l or L&K if I had the choice again. Also the red paint is soft as anything.
With an almost identical need as you, I've just placed an order for a 72 reg Skoda Superb 1.5TSI DSG SE. I'm picking it up on Saturday.
Had a decent test drive, and it was everything I hoped it would be. Just an excellent all round tool. Plenty of power and shove, loads of space for gangly teens, just enough equipment. Quiet, comfy, smooth. I had my doubts after reading horror stories about DSG, but the box and engine seem superbly well matched on this car, feels a step up form the 5-spd TC auto I currently drive, this being a 7-spd box. I think early gremlins with regards to the DSG box, and it's combination with this specific engine, have been resolved, and also the old cam chain reliability issue has been resolved by changing the engine to cambelt, but ultra-longlife (140k miles, 15 year intervals, obviously can be changed early depending on use and owner's preference).
I don't think there's much on the market which can compare in terms of the balance of practicality and value for money.
EDIT: Just seen the post above about the Sportline Superb. Generally accepted wisdom is that the 2.0 doesn't really deliver much more than the 1.5 in the real world, and yes I personally avoided the Sportline spec and went for SE because of smaller wheels, fatter tyres and greater comfort. More toys if you go up to SE L or L&K spec. I preferred a newer, lower mileage SE for the money. My one was £19,999, with only 7k on the clock, on Approved Used form a main dealer, so 2 years warranty, servicing and MOTs included. Spot on OP's budget.
One of my offspring is 6'3" and there will be more than enough legroom in the back for him, even with a normal adult in the front seat. Haven't seen anything this side of an LWB A8 or similar with as much rear space.
I used to drive an Mercedes E320 CDi, a 3.0 straight six diesel obviously, and this Superb doesn't feel like it lacks anything in comparison on the motorway.
Further EDIT: I also wanted something Japanese, I'm moving from a Honda Civic Tourer (we've outgrown it), which has been flawless for 5 years. But there's nothing suitable on the market without going to SUV, and I'm not doing that. As OP said, rear legroom in a Mazda 6 is really disappointing, and no better than my Civic. There are probably Subarus which might be suitable, but I simply don't want something niche like that. I wish there were a Toyota Camry estate, but there isn't and I can't magic one into existence - the Camry's saloon boot is compromised because of the battery pack, so luggage becomes an issue for holidays, and also I have a dog, so hatch/estate necessary for me. So, Skoda Superb it is, and as new and as low miles as possible for a £20k budget, Approved Used, so as to allay any reliability doubts.
Another PHer was in a Spanish taxi last week, a 2021 Skoda Superb with 330k kms on the clock. Thousands of taxi drivers can't be wrong on reliability. I asked him what he thought of the car, he said "Superb".
Had a decent test drive, and it was everything I hoped it would be. Just an excellent all round tool. Plenty of power and shove, loads of space for gangly teens, just enough equipment. Quiet, comfy, smooth. I had my doubts after reading horror stories about DSG, but the box and engine seem superbly well matched on this car, feels a step up form the 5-spd TC auto I currently drive, this being a 7-spd box. I think early gremlins with regards to the DSG box, and it's combination with this specific engine, have been resolved, and also the old cam chain reliability issue has been resolved by changing the engine to cambelt, but ultra-longlife (140k miles, 15 year intervals, obviously can be changed early depending on use and owner's preference).
I don't think there's much on the market which can compare in terms of the balance of practicality and value for money.
EDIT: Just seen the post above about the Sportline Superb. Generally accepted wisdom is that the 2.0 doesn't really deliver much more than the 1.5 in the real world, and yes I personally avoided the Sportline spec and went for SE because of smaller wheels, fatter tyres and greater comfort. More toys if you go up to SE L or L&K spec. I preferred a newer, lower mileage SE for the money. My one was £19,999, with only 7k on the clock, on Approved Used form a main dealer, so 2 years warranty, servicing and MOTs included. Spot on OP's budget.
One of my offspring is 6'3" and there will be more than enough legroom in the back for him, even with a normal adult in the front seat. Haven't seen anything this side of an LWB A8 or similar with as much rear space.
I used to drive an Mercedes E320 CDi, a 3.0 straight six diesel obviously, and this Superb doesn't feel like it lacks anything in comparison on the motorway.
Further EDIT: I also wanted something Japanese, I'm moving from a Honda Civic Tourer (we've outgrown it), which has been flawless for 5 years. But there's nothing suitable on the market without going to SUV, and I'm not doing that. As OP said, rear legroom in a Mazda 6 is really disappointing, and no better than my Civic. There are probably Subarus which might be suitable, but I simply don't want something niche like that. I wish there were a Toyota Camry estate, but there isn't and I can't magic one into existence - the Camry's saloon boot is compromised because of the battery pack, so luggage becomes an issue for holidays, and also I have a dog, so hatch/estate necessary for me. So, Skoda Superb it is, and as new and as low miles as possible for a £20k budget, Approved Used, so as to allay any reliability doubts.
Another PHer was in a Spanish taxi last week, a 2021 Skoda Superb with 330k kms on the clock. Thousands of taxi drivers can't be wrong on reliability. I asked him what he thought of the car, he said "Superb".
Edited by CivicDuties on Wednesday 28th August 11:11
Thanks chaps.
To be fair, initially a Superb was the top of my list but I have heard so many horror stories on their infotainment system. I was initially considering a 1.5 petrol but I have concerns of their durability given the stress on the small engine against the size/weight of the vehicle.
I think you may have talked me out of the Sportsline as I want comfort and was initially of the view that the Sportsline was still relatively comfortable despite the bigger wheels and firmer suspension. It was also due to the sporty style that appealed to me rather than the standard version. But what I don't want is to complain of a bad bad after only a few hours of driving it. I like their alcantara seats but wasn't convinced the sporty style seats would be comfortable.
I have driven a fair few 1.5 VAG petrols and they were fine in terms of power etc but they all juddered at the front wheels in the cold, which is a common issue as far as I'm aware on those vehicles around 3 -4 years old.
I think I will take a closer look at the Superb then.
PS - the hybrid battery on the Camry is underneath the rear seat so it doesn't impede on the boot space.
To be fair, initially a Superb was the top of my list but I have heard so many horror stories on their infotainment system. I was initially considering a 1.5 petrol but I have concerns of their durability given the stress on the small engine against the size/weight of the vehicle.
I think you may have talked me out of the Sportsline as I want comfort and was initially of the view that the Sportsline was still relatively comfortable despite the bigger wheels and firmer suspension. It was also due to the sporty style that appealed to me rather than the standard version. But what I don't want is to complain of a bad bad after only a few hours of driving it. I like their alcantara seats but wasn't convinced the sporty style seats would be comfortable.
I have driven a fair few 1.5 VAG petrols and they were fine in terms of power etc but they all juddered at the front wheels in the cold, which is a common issue as far as I'm aware on those vehicles around 3 -4 years old.
I think I will take a closer look at the Superb then.
PS - the hybrid battery on the Camry is underneath the rear seat so it doesn't impede on the boot space.
I took a 1.4 petrol and 2.0 diesel superb for a test drive back to back before I bought mine and preferred the lighter feeling and less noise of the petrol. Even my son who was a passenger preferred it.
I also went with a 2.0 petrol as I wanted a dsg gearbox and the smaller engines cars comes with the dry clutch box where the bigger engines have the wet clutch which I thought would be better for reliability. Plus
Loads of room in the back of my saloon which has a hatch verses a normal boot. Should've got an estate though. Someone on the barge thread described the superb as an Octavia with more room in the back which id sybis accurate.
If you want more wafty I'd get an S class, late XJ, Lexus LS or a jdm Toyota crown. Ultimate waft is a Toyota Century but these have gone up quite a bit in the last few years. Also wish I'd got a 3.5 Alphard instead
I also went with a 2.0 petrol as I wanted a dsg gearbox and the smaller engines cars comes with the dry clutch box where the bigger engines have the wet clutch which I thought would be better for reliability. Plus
Loads of room in the back of my saloon which has a hatch verses a normal boot. Should've got an estate though. Someone on the barge thread described the superb as an Octavia with more room in the back which id sybis accurate.
If you want more wafty I'd get an S class, late XJ, Lexus LS or a jdm Toyota crown. Ultimate waft is a Toyota Century but these have gone up quite a bit in the last few years. Also wish I'd got a 3.5 Alphard instead
I’ve heard about the issues of the wet dsg units which are on vehicles of 150ps or less, which also steered me to the 2.0L. But there’s a big price difference between the two engines.
The other models you’ve suggested are likely to incur high maintenance and servicing fees which I don’t want. I also want a car that flies under the radar!
The other models you’ve suggested are likely to incur high maintenance and servicing fees which I don’t want. I also want a car that flies under the radar!
The 1.5 Superb I've bought didn't feel underpowered to me, and it has bags of torque, so I'm not worried about the size of the engine, stress and all that, and 7 gears means it's not going to be revving its tits off like my VTEC Civic when I plant my foot. I'll do the gearbox oil change on schedule, and that should prevent any reliability issues long term. They're no longer offering the Superb brand new with a manual gearbox option, so they must be pretty confident in the DSG box now. It's been around almost 20 years.
And £20k will get you an Approved Used one under 2 years old, like mine, so the latest generation of the engine and gearbox.
Interesting about the batteries in the Camry, I was going by how photos of the boot look in Autotrader adverts - it looks very small to me for a large car, so I assumed the batteries were the problem. Maybe it'll work for you then.
And £20k will get you an Approved Used one under 2 years old, like mine, so the latest generation of the engine and gearbox.
Interesting about the batteries in the Camry, I was going by how photos of the boot look in Autotrader adverts - it looks very small to me for a large car, so I assumed the batteries were the problem. Maybe it'll work for you then.
I think a closer look at the 1.5 might be wise then. They must have faith in them as they use them across the whole of the VAG group.
Head is saying 1.5 but my heart is saying 2.0.
I’ll still keep an eye out on a Camry if one pops up locally. Just a little concerned about the health implications of sitting on top of a small hybrid battery so I’ll need to look into this a bit more.
Head is saying 1.5 but my heart is saying 2.0.
I’ll still keep an eye out on a Camry if one pops up locally. Just a little concerned about the health implications of sitting on top of a small hybrid battery so I’ll need to look into this a bit more.
Health implications? My other car's a Nissan Leaf, I've been sitting on a big battery for 7 years and my head didn't fall off yet.
I've heard it said that the 2.0 isn't much quicker off the mark unless you put it into Sport mode. It blunts performance to keep emissions down. Put it in sport then it is a lot quicker. 150PS feels fine in the 1.5 with that 250Nm torque.
I've heard it said that the 2.0 isn't much quicker off the mark unless you put it into Sport mode. It blunts performance to keep emissions down. Put it in sport then it is a lot quicker. 150PS feels fine in the 1.5 with that 250Nm torque.
CivicDuties said:
Health implications? My other car's a Nissan Leaf, I've been sitting on a big battery for 7 years and my head didn't fall off yet.
There are some concerns regarding the long-term radiation tion of electromagnetic fields which is not conclusive. So to avoid any doubts, I may stick with petrol only. I’ll have a look at the 1.5 then. Whilst I’m not looking for outright speed, I like some torque! Sounds like there’s enough for my needs.
Edited by MYOB on Wednesday 28th August 15:48
MYOB said:
CivicDuties said:
Health implications? My other car's a Nissan Leaf, I've been sitting on a big battery for 7 years and my head didn't fall off yet.
There are some concerns regarding the long-term ration of electromagnetic fields which is not conclusive. So to avoid any doubts, I may stick with petrol only. I’ll have a look at the 1.5 then. Whilst I’m not looking for outright speed, I like some torque! Sounds like there’s enough for my needs.
Yes the torque was my concern too, my current car struggles on those long autoroute inclines in France. I took the Superb up the A404(M) to Handy Cross, don't know if you're local, but that's a fairly steep, long incline and it flew up there without any ceremony. Felt like my big old diesels.
Take a test drive and see what you think.
MYOB said:
I think a closer look at the 1.5 might be wise then. They must have faith in them as they use them across the whole of the VAG group.
Head is saying 1.5 but my heart is saying 2.0.
I’ll still keep an eye out on a Camry if one pops up locally. Just a little concerned about the health implications of sitting on top of a small hybrid battery so I’ll need to look into this a bit more.
If it's architected in the same way as my hybrid Corolla then the hybrid battery is under the rear seats. Then it's just a problem for your rear passengers Head is saying 1.5 but my heart is saying 2.0.
I’ll still keep an eye out on a Camry if one pops up locally. Just a little concerned about the health implications of sitting on top of a small hybrid battery so I’ll need to look into this a bit more.
oilslick said:
If it's architected in the same way as my hybrid Corolla then the hybrid battery is under the rear seats. Then it's just a problem for your rear passengers
Which are my kids so I would rather minimise any risks. Mind you, they are already exposed to high EMFs with all their IT equipment!CivicDuties said:
With an almost identical need as you, I've just placed an order for a 72 reg Skoda Superb 1.5TSI DSG SE. I'm picking it up on Saturday.
Had a decent test drive, and it was everything I hoped it would be. Just an excellent all round tool. Plenty of power and shove, loads of space for gangly teens, just enough equipment. Quiet, comfy, smooth. I had my doubts after reading horror stories about DSG, but the box and engine seem superbly well matched on this car, feels a step up form the 5-spd TC auto I currently drive, this being a 7-spd box. I think early gremlins with regards to the DSG box, and it's combination with this specific engine, have been resolved, and also the old cam chain reliability issue has been resolved by changing the engine to cambelt, but ultra-longlife (140k miles, 15 year intervals, obviously can be changed early depending on use and owner's preference).
I don't think there's much on the market which can compare in terms of the balance of practicality and value for money.
EDIT: Just seen the post above about the Sportline Superb. Generally accepted wisdom is that the 2.0 doesn't really deliver much more than the 1.5 in the real world, and yes I personally avoided the Sportline spec and went for SE because of smaller wheels, fatter tyres and greater comfort. More toys if you go up to SE L or L&K spec. I preferred a newer, lower mileage SE for the money. My one was £19,999, with only 7k on the clock, on Approved Used form a main dealer, so 2 years warranty, servicing and MOTs included. Spot on OP's budget.
One of my offspring is 6'3" and there will be more than enough legroom in the back for him, even with a normal adult in the front seat. Haven't seen anything this side of an LWB A8 or similar with as much rear space.
I used to drive an Mercedes E320 CDi, a 3.0 straight six diesel obviously, and this Superb doesn't feel like it lacks anything in comparison on the motorway.
Further EDIT: I also wanted something Japanese, I'm moving from a Honda Civic Tourer (we've outgrown it), which has been flawless for 5 years. But there's nothing suitable on the market without going to SUV, and I'm not doing that. As OP said, rear legroom in a Mazda 6 is really disappointing, and no better than my Civic. There are probably Subarus which might be suitable, but I simply don't want something niche like that. I wish there were a Toyota Camry estate, but there isn't and I can't magic one into existence - the Camry's saloon boot is compromised because of the battery pack, so luggage becomes an issue for holidays, and also I have a dog, so hatch/estate necessary for me. So, Skoda Superb it is, and as new and as low miles as possible for a £20k budget, Approved Used, so as to allay any reliability doubts.
Another PHer was in a Spanish taxi last week, a 2021 Skoda Superb with 330k kms on the clock. Thousands of taxi drivers can't be wrong on reliability. I asked him what he thought of the car, he said "Superb".
As the aforementioned PHer I can indeed confirm that a 330kms 3yo Superb taxi was indeed in amazing condition. I actually thought it was a few weeks old. Not a single rattle or squeak on 10 miles of rural Spanish roads, I was astounded. Had a decent test drive, and it was everything I hoped it would be. Just an excellent all round tool. Plenty of power and shove, loads of space for gangly teens, just enough equipment. Quiet, comfy, smooth. I had my doubts after reading horror stories about DSG, but the box and engine seem superbly well matched on this car, feels a step up form the 5-spd TC auto I currently drive, this being a 7-spd box. I think early gremlins with regards to the DSG box, and it's combination with this specific engine, have been resolved, and also the old cam chain reliability issue has been resolved by changing the engine to cambelt, but ultra-longlife (140k miles, 15 year intervals, obviously can be changed early depending on use and owner's preference).
I don't think there's much on the market which can compare in terms of the balance of practicality and value for money.
EDIT: Just seen the post above about the Sportline Superb. Generally accepted wisdom is that the 2.0 doesn't really deliver much more than the 1.5 in the real world, and yes I personally avoided the Sportline spec and went for SE because of smaller wheels, fatter tyres and greater comfort. More toys if you go up to SE L or L&K spec. I preferred a newer, lower mileage SE for the money. My one was £19,999, with only 7k on the clock, on Approved Used form a main dealer, so 2 years warranty, servicing and MOTs included. Spot on OP's budget.
One of my offspring is 6'3" and there will be more than enough legroom in the back for him, even with a normal adult in the front seat. Haven't seen anything this side of an LWB A8 or similar with as much rear space.
I used to drive an Mercedes E320 CDi, a 3.0 straight six diesel obviously, and this Superb doesn't feel like it lacks anything in comparison on the motorway.
Further EDIT: I also wanted something Japanese, I'm moving from a Honda Civic Tourer (we've outgrown it), which has been flawless for 5 years. But there's nothing suitable on the market without going to SUV, and I'm not doing that. As OP said, rear legroom in a Mazda 6 is really disappointing, and no better than my Civic. There are probably Subarus which might be suitable, but I simply don't want something niche like that. I wish there were a Toyota Camry estate, but there isn't and I can't magic one into existence - the Camry's saloon boot is compromised because of the battery pack, so luggage becomes an issue for holidays, and also I have a dog, so hatch/estate necessary for me. So, Skoda Superb it is, and as new and as low miles as possible for a £20k budget, Approved Used, so as to allay any reliability doubts.
Another PHer was in a Spanish taxi last week, a 2021 Skoda Superb with 330k kms on the clock. Thousands of taxi drivers can't be wrong on reliability. I asked him what he thought of the car, he said "Superb".
Edited by CivicDuties on Wednesday 28th August 11:11
MYOB said:
oilslick said:
If it's architected in the same way as my hybrid Corolla then the hybrid battery is under the rear seats. Then it's just a problem for your rear passengers
Which are my kids so I would rather minimise any risks. Mind you, they are already exposed to high EMFs with all their IT equipment!
CivicDuties said:
Oh yeah, good call. I discounted the Passat saloon because of my dog, but an estate would have been fine. Didn't think to look though!
Luckily my dog can get in my Ranger for local trips and stay with relatives when I venture further afield. I do live estates (hence owning Volvos) but it’s not required now and would rather get a saloon style.
Still, there's not as much legroom in a Passat as a Superb. The Superb has a specially extended wheelbase, it was originally conceived for the Chinese market where Plutocrats like to sit in the back. Passat room is OK, but Superb is next level. I think that's probably why I didn't bother looking now, come to think of it. We had a Passat saloon as a hire car in Slovenia a couple of years back before son turned into Goliath. It was a 2.0 diesel though. Plenty of room, and we even managed to transport 4 sets of skis around the place with us using the hatch in the middle of the rear seats. Good car.
Peugeot 508? 20k should get you a 2020ish PHEV with main dealer warranty. Certainly fits the criteria of a large wafty saloon and the PHEV would suit your mainly local usage.
Or for a more left field choice DS9s are getting into the 20k mark and are essentially a long wheelbase 508 with more rear legroom (and chrome...)
Or for a more left field choice DS9s are getting into the 20k mark and are essentially a long wheelbase 508 with more rear legroom (and chrome...)
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